Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[Sachita]

also Wanton boi says that I have a lot of masculine energy rolled into my femme persona. Even at my most passive this is present.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Sachita

also Wanton boi says that I have a lot of masculine energy rolled into my femme persona. Even at my most passive this is present.

I have to ask, seeing as how this discussion has flowed recently and folks are opening up a bit more, would this be the opposite of what the thread celebrates?

I'm sorry if I'm not wording things well. I can feel the question in my head but it's just not coming to fruition the way I'd like.

I have no issues with masculine energy. Celebrate it, even. But isn't the point of this thread....or at least one of them....to concentrate on the feminine energy in the relationship? Can't feminine energy be aggressive and/or strong without being masculine? If not, then we're right back at the start, saying masculine/male is the only/right way and that feminine/female/femme is secondary.

Am I making sense?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I have to ask, seeing as how this discussion has flowed recently and folks are opening up a bit more, would this be the opposite of what the thread celebrates?

I'm sorry if I'm not wording things well. I can feel the question in my head but it's just not coming to fruition the way I'd like.

I have no issues with masculine energy. Celebrate it, even. But isn't the point of this thread....or at least one of them....to concentrate on the feminine energy in the relationship? Can't feminine energy be aggressive and/or strong without being masculine? If not, then we're right back at the start, saying masculine/male is the only/right way and that feminine/female/femme is secondary.

Am I making sense?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Originally Posted by June

Gemme -- I think that when we use "Masculine" energy, which has been used to describe me before, and I have also used it, it's because we don't have the language for describing "Dominant Femme" that fully spectrumizes (tm) what we are.

I have been thinking about that a lot for the past couple of years, actually. It's not Masculine if we're Femmes. It's not necessarily (but can be) Top energy. It's unique and powerful and full of woooooooo.

Gemme, your question makes a lot of sense. And this has been one of my questions. Perhaps I am once again over simplifying things. But why does there have to be additional language? You're Femme. You prefer to be in charge. Therefore, you're a femme who requires being in charge. If you're a femme and you're dominant then you're a dominant femme. And if you're a femme and a natural born leader then you're a femme natural born leader. No additional language needed. It has nothing to do with being masculine. It's still all about being femme.

Now I do recognize that for some to say that they have masculine energy or their male side comes out is an accurate statement. Of course it is! They would know. But that strikes me as separate from the fact that they are in charge or the boss or whatever descriptor is used when talking about Femme led relationships. Help me understand.

It seems that the masculine energy/male side is separate just like BDSM, D/s, M/s, etc. is separate from this conversation. I get that we (human beings) have both male and female within us. But that isn't what makes you the boss right? I know that people describe those characteristics as male when seen but is that really an accurate classification?

Taking a seat to listen and learn. Thanks for letting me be a participant.

[apretty]

Come on now--Aren't they all femme-led?

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by apretty

Come on now--Aren't they all femme-led?

Succinctly, I have always said this. If it is not all about us, it is for us.

[Isadora]

All though we joke about it, they are not all femme led...just as all relationships are not butch/male/masculine led. I think I am just me. The oldest of ten children who had a very ill mother and I took charge. Is it innate? Probably. Was it necessary for me and my siblings to survive? Definitely. Did it make me skilled at organizing and socializing? Why, yes it did. Did it make me bossy? Why, yes it did that, too.

But it also made me listen, nurture, kiss boo boos, fix skates, hammer forts, go to parent/teacher conferences and feed 11 people on 2 lbs of hamburger. (Think "Shameless" without the sex, alcohol or drugs.) I had to set priorities early...do I go to prom and spend money on a dress or do I pay for Tom's math tutor? We always talk about leadership like it is dominant. Leadership is many things and many many studies have been done on what it means...but being a leader in my relationship is not about dominance it is about openess to serve with the skills that are both innate and learned. I provide the direction, the social calendar, the emotional support, make important decisions but my partner is not like a minion waiting for my next command. LOL Leadership is more than bossing people around or telling them what to do. Leadership is listening. Leadership is coaxing. Leadership is laying down. Leadership is admitting skills (both held and lacking). Leadership is realizing that people are complicated and messy.

Leadership in a relationship also is about love and loving. Love is not a rigid board of perfect design. Love is part of how I am. I am not perfect at anything, but Love makes my femme led relationships a playful dragonfly of grace in a field of sweet clover.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Sometimes I like Grant to be my minion at my every beck and call, that's how it rolls when I'm in the mood, that's the beauty of these power exchange relationships for *me*. I can do, say, act like I want because I have consent and it gets us all off or we just plain like it.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Isadora

All though we joke about it, they are not all femme led...just as all relationships are not butch/male/masculine led. I think I am just me. The oldest of ten children who had a very ill mother and I took charge. Is it innate? Probably. Was it necessary for me and my siblings to survive? Definitely. Did it make me skilled at organizing and socializing? Why, yes it did. Did it make me bossy? Why, yes it did that, too.

But it also made me listen, nurture, kiss boo boos, fix skates, hammer forts, go to parent/teacher conferences and feed 11 people on 2 lbs of hamburger. (Think "Shameless" without the sex, alcohol or drugs.) I had to set priorities early...do I go to prom and spend money on a dress or do I pay for Tom's math tutor? We always talk about leadership like it is dominant. Leadership is many things and many many studies have been done on what it means...but being a leader in my relationship is not about dominance it is about openess to serve with the skills that are both innate and learned. I provide the direction, the social calendar, the emotional support, make important decisions but my partner is not like a minion waiting for my next command. LOL Leadership is more than bossing people around or telling them what to do. Leadership is listening. Leadership is coaxing. Leadership is laying down. Leadership is admitting skills (both held and lacking). Leadership is realizing that people are complicated and messy.

Leadership in a relationship also is about love and loving. Love is not a rigid board of perfect design. Love is part of how I am. I am not perfect at anything, but Love makes my femme led relationships a playful dragonfly of grace in a field of sweet clover.

I love this. And, it really resonates with me in terms of my own style of dominance. I really shy away from the "power over" model. My dominance is about care-taking as well as getting the responses that I want from a sub. The care taking is part of what gets me off. That is not to say that I can't at times be a strict disciplinarian, lol. But caring is a significant part of it. Thanks for sharing this!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

Succinctly, I have always said this. If it is not all about us, it is for us.

I've been mulling over this post Yellow Band because when I read it, I literally laughed out loud.

I'm a pushy leader....but most of what I do (professionally and in relationships) is actually for the others around me. In an odd way, I serve from the front.

Hard to explain....but....in a relationship I will annoy the hell out of any partner who wants to passively sit and do nothing...who has no goals...who has no vision for their life. I would drive them nuts (and vice versa) because I am all about "who are you? what do you want? where are you going? what do you dream about doing? what will make you happy?"....and then I will kick your ass to get you there.

It isn't for me. It isn't about me. It's about the other....and I have this compelling need to drag, push or pull them (if necessary) to their joy.

Make sense?

My son just turned 14...and he'll tell you that he wants to form his own company, design computer games, possibly get his PhD and teach (and have his interns work for free on his projects)....ahhhh....he's his mother's son. He wants to learn Mandarin Chinese (he's already learning Spanish); wants to live overseas at some point; wants to travel all over the world. He's had a lifetime of my influence, and it shows. He has goals. He has ambition. He wants to accomplish big things.

It isn't that we have to always be doing and busy. We don't. We have "pajama days" when we do nothing at all (including getting dressed). I see nothing wrong with enjoying a TV show, or floating in the pool, or playing with the animals.

I just don't want his, or my, or your (if we're in a relationship) life to be only that. I won't settle, and I'm not comfortable letting the people around me settle either.

[The_Lady_Snow]

My daughter Ria says I'm the head of the Octopus and the rest of the pack are the tentacles together we work as one!!! I'm a micormanager so being involved for me works, it may seem I'm to demanding, harsh, not mushy enough but our end results are great and we're all happy and things run smoothly on all fronts!

[Random]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Gemme, your question makes a lot of sense. And this has been one of my questions. Perhaps I am once again over simplifying things. But why does there have to be additional language? You're Femme. You prefer to be in charge. Therefore, you're a femme who requires being in charge. If you're a femme and you're dominant then you're a dominant femme. And if you're a femme and a natural born leader then you're a femme natural born leader. No additional language needed. It has nothing to do with being masculine. It's still all about being femme.

Now I do recognize that for some to say that they have masculine energy or their male side comes out is an accurate statement. Of course it is! They would know. But that strikes me as separate from the fact that they are in charge or the boss or whatever descriptor is used when talking about Femme led relationships. Help me understand.

It seems that the masculine energy/male side is separate just like BDSM, D/s, M/s, etc. is separate from this conversation. I get that we (human beings) have both male and female within us. But that isn't what makes you the boss right? I know that people describe those characteristics as male when seen but is that really an accurate classification?

Taking a seat to listen and learn. Thanks for letting me be a participant.

For me... My dominant energy is neither masculine nore feminine... It simply is energy... For me the closest I can come to putting it into words is.. I AM... I am confident, I am secure, I am certain.... It has nothing to do with gender or how I ID

Ps... thank you for your post Gemmie.. I came back to respond to it, but decided to do a two for one...

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Random

For me... My dominant energy is neither masculine nore feminine... It simply is energy... For me the closest I can come to putting it into words is.. I AM... I am confident, I am secure, I am certain.... It has nothing to do with gender or how I ID

Ps... thank you for your post Gemmie.. I came back to respond to it, but decided to do a two for one...

but just for the record those attributes of confidence etc can also be found in submissive energy.

No to deny masculine or make it seem less than but there is something divine and sacred about Goddess energy. It encompasses a natural projection of so many things- bitch, lover, mother, whore....dark and light. The women that adopt this, nurture and cultivate are alpha and solicit control. Its part of their fiber. Calling me a dominant woman barely scratches my surface. I am so much more.

Should you (anyone) ever encounter one that could seduce that goddess essence in you it just might chance your life.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Sachita

but just for the record those attributes of confidence etc can also be found in submissive energy.

No to deny masculine or make it seem less than but there is something divine and sacred about Goddess energy. It encompasses a natural projection of so many things- bitch, lover, mother, whore....dark and light. The women that adopt this, nurture and cultivate are alpha and solicit control. Its part of their fiber. Calling me a dominant woman barely scratches my surface. I am so much more.

Should you (anyone) ever encounter one that could seduce that goddess essence in you it just might chance your life.

See... I wouldn't have described submissive energy with those words.... For me submissive feels , still, empty, waiting, open....

Using energy... I am the current, she is the recepticle

I understand what you mean about goddess essence/energy but for me it's different... It's more natural/ animalistic... There is no good or bad, no dark or light... It simply is..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Random

See... I wouldn't have described submissive energy with those words.... For me submissive feels , still, empty, waiting, open....

Using energy... I am the current, she is the recepticle

I understand what you mean about goddess essence/energy but for me it's different... It's more natural/ animalistic... There is no good or bad, no dark or light... It simply is..

Primal.... Yes, I like it primal till I don't!

WOOF

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't have anything "male" in my energy, masculine yes but not male so therefore my Woman led, Femme Led, Domina led relationships are simply that. Woman in charge of it all... My masculinity may be there because it's part of who I am yet it certainly is not the Commander of any of my vessels (heh).

I just am.....

Originally Posted by apretty

Come on now--Aren't they all femme-led?
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```

I would like to think we are a Matriarch run world, unfortunately it's not <sad face insert> what I do see is the thought that girl has <insert pronoun> wrapped around her.his.hys.zi's finger. Which to me is different than actually having reigns of the goings on of the relationship.

We can think we own a panther, the reality is that panther can at anytime turn and make us lunch.

I'm not wrapped around no one's finger, if anything I am the one who pulls the strings for every movement...

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't have anything "male" in my energy, masculine yes but not male so therefore my Woman led, Femme Led, Domina led relationships are simply that. Woman in charge of it all... My masculinity may be there because it's part of who I am yet it certainly is not the Commander of any of my vessels (heh).

I just am.....

Originally Posted by apretty

Come on now--Aren't they all femme-led?
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```

I would like to think we are a Matriarch run world, unfortunately it's not <sad face insert> what I do see is the thought that girl has <insert pronoun> wrapped around her.his.hys.zi's finger. Which to me is different than actually having reigns of the goings on of the relationship.

We can think we own a panther, the reality is that panther can at anytime turn and make us lunch.

I'm not wrapped around no one's finger, if anything I am the one who pulls the strings for every movement...

love this. Exactly how I feel and the reality I wish to create.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by June

Gemme -- I think that when we use "Masculine" energy, which has been used to describe me before, and I have also used it, it's because we don't have the language for describing "Dominant Femme" that fully spectrumizes (tm) what we are.

I have been thinking about that a lot for the past couple of years, actually. It's not Masculine if we're Femmes. It's not necessarily (but can be) Top energy. It's unique and powerful and full of woooooooo.

I'm finding this thread interesting reading and will post more fully when I've gotten my words in order...but...for now, what June said struck me.

There is nothing whatsoever masculine or male about me. When it comes to the bedroom, there is nothing of a Top about me either.

However, I embrace what I call my "pushy broad".

I am all femme, all female, and all feminine....and I am strong, stubborn, willful, and in charge. I am a planner and a problem solver, as well as creative and intelligent. For a long time, I thought I had to hide those things...and I did. At almost 50 and with a long history of deferring to others who generally fucked it up and I ended up fixing it....I don't anymore.

There's a reason I'm a project manager professionally. I'm damn good at it. I organize people, keep them on track, keep them moving, prod them in the ass when they need it (nicely of course ), hold them back when they need that, squelch the ones that need to shut up, encourage the ones that need to speak, and hold their feet to the fire for those that need that, too.

So....think me arrogant if you like...but yes, I generally do have the answer or the vision of what we need to do and how we should get there.

Do I think I'm better or more enlightened than others? No. I am fully aware that other people have skills, knowledge and talents that I don't. And I'm happy to listen, absorb and applaud those things. Professionally, I depend on people having knowledge or skills that I don't....I need them, and I use them, to get the job done.

Personally, it's not that different. I actively encourage the people around me to do their best, develop their gifts, express what they want so we can experience or accomplish that. What I won't do is be a passive partner, sit on my hands, shut my mouth and go along.

For a long time, I felt that the problem I had in relationships is that I needed to find someone stronger than me to be the lead. Now? Not so much.

I'll come back later, after coffee, when I'm more awake.