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Old 08-30-2011, 07:00 PM   #1
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The two people who did the two mentions in the Wall Street Journal (one to say he died, one to say that a temporary leader for the NDP was appointed) are both Canadians. The one person who mentioned his passing in the New York Times? Also Canadian. Just saying.

MSNBC on Sunday finally got around to hotlinking to a few articles from other sources (reuters, ap) and Fox has said nothing.

(That Prime Minister Jean Poutine thing really did happen, by the way. It was funny.)

(and of course I am aware of the hurricane and earthquake. the hurricane hit the east coast of Canada, also. And we felt the earthquake in Ontario.)

You don't think there is a phenomena where the US as a whole is very disinterested in anything outside of the US, that's cool. I think there is, and that's cool too.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:16 PM   #2
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You don't think there is a phenomena where the US as a whole is very disinterested in anything outside of the US, that's cool. I think there is, and that's cool too.
I never said there wasn't, I'm arguing that during this news cycle, the American media (and President) had bigger issues to focus on. I'm also arguing that maybe it would be better if my fellow Canadians focused inward a little more instead of wringing our hands worrying about what Canadian news stories Americans did or didn't cover.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:48 PM   #3
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You don't think there is a phenomena where the US as a whole is very disinterested in anything outside of the US, that's cool. I think there is, and that's cool too.
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I never said there wasn't, I'm arguing that during this news cycle, the American media (and President) had bigger issues to focus on. I'm also arguing that maybe it would be better if my fellow Canadians focused inward a little more instead of wringing our hands worrying about what Canadian news stories Americans did or didn't cover.
You know ltd, your remarks make me think of the remarks made by Janet Napolitano after her visit to Ottawa. She was annoyed that so many people brought up the topic of her mistaken belief that the 911 hijackers came to the States through Canada, even though the story had been debunked and OFFICIALLY recognized as having no merit many times. It seemed to be a small affair to her - though I would think somebody in her position would have access to accurate information. We are one of two immediate neighbours, and the largest trading partner to the U.S., and the average U.S. citizen knows jack shit about us. I live in a border town and I am repeatedly amazed at how little folks know about their northern neighbour. You seem more embarassed by us bringing it up than anything. The U.S. as a society is VERY ego-centric. This doesn't mean that every individual is - but as a whole Americans know little of what happens outside of their own country. It's a fact. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention. And if you have and you still feel that we're "wringing our hands" - a comment I found pretty condescending - well then all power to you. You have the right to your opinion.

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Old 08-30-2011, 08:33 PM   #4
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I'm not embarrassed. It's just curious to me how Canadians can spend half their time kvetching about how Americans don't pay any attention to them, and half their time trying to appease Americans (especially with the current government).

There was a Canadian comedian - I wish I could remember his name - who said that the relationship between the US and Canada was like the relationship between him and his little brother. Whenever he wanted to go off and do anything, his mom would say "be sure to take your little brother with you!" and if he ever dared to try to go off on his own, his little brother would whine and run and tell mom.

It's lazy thinking to be so biased and so bigoted about an entire country of people. It seems like disordered thinking to be so dismissive of an entire country yet completely obsessed with getting them to pay attention to you. It's so easy to drift into that lazy thinking, and I get that Canadians obviously get something out of this national obsession with trying to catch the eye of the United States, but as an outsider who chose to make Canada her home, I've never understood it. Canada's awesome in its own right - we don't need the klieg lights from down south to focus on us to realize it. Rep your own. Hype your own. Don't mind what the others are doing, just do you, Canada.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:34 PM   #5
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And while we're on the subject of American media paying attention to Canada, how awesome is it that Entertainment Weekly's Music Mix section has a "Things that are Canadian" tag?
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:22 PM   #6
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.....It's lazy thinking to be so biased and so bigoted about an entire country of people. It seems like disordered thinking to be so dismissive of an entire country yet completely obsessed with getting them to pay attention to you.....[/B]
I can't even begin to express how condescending this is. You're saying that we're awesome - just as long as we don't say anything about anybody else. Using the phrase "lazy thinking" is a great red herring, but offers no explanation or examples as to why what I have to say is invalid. And speaking of lazy.....did you notice this part of my post?: "The U.S. as a society is VERY ego-centric. This doesn't mean that every individual is - but as a whole Americans know little of what happens outside of their own country." - expressed in context of my experience of living on the border. Your opinions are yours. Please have the respect to realize that others may differ with you.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:48 PM   #7
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It seems like disordered thinking to be so dismissive of an entire country yet completely obsessed with getting them to pay attention to you. It's so easy to drift into that lazy thinking, and I get that Canadians obviously get something out of this national obsession with trying to catch the eye of the United States, but as an outsider who chose to make Canada her home, I've never understood it.[/B]
I'm just saying that I'd like to, on occasion, see some positive mention of Canada in the US media. There are times that we got a LOT of coverage south of our border. Like if one of our politicians is caught calling Dubya a moron - boy oh boy that media shitstorm lasted a MONTH. Or when we opted out of Iraq - another shitstorm of media attention. Or when we almost decriminalised possession of cannabis - that shitstorm included lengthy articles about how now people are going to be trafficking tonnes of drugs from Canada to the US and culminated to my wait to cross the border (I was living in BC at the time) going from an average of 10 minutes to WELL over an hour (and getting the back seat removed from my car by US border guards on a regular basis). And when Obama started working toward affordable healthcare for everybody in the US - again attention was turned to Canada and our apparently 3rd world health system and the long waits and all the people who die in our emergency rooms waiting for care (none of which is true, of course).

Like Suebee, I live in a border town. Before I moved here I never really thought about Americans that much. And now that I'm married to a Butch from Ohio....well. I love my spouse but sweet Jesus some of hys friends ask me the stupidest fucking questions. Sometimes I just want to shake them and say "I know that about you guys, how do you not know that about us?"
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:04 AM   #8
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I'm an American who doesn't always get pegged as American who has lived here for 10 years (because of how I look, most people assume I'm from the Caribbean).

In that ten years, I have heard and read some of the most dismissive yet completely off-handed biased and sometimes outright bigoted comments about Americans that I've ever heard. When I speak up about it, I generally hear "Oh, well, we didn't mean you!" in response. This is the same sort of lazy bigotry that I've heard from white people who, when making racist comments about blacks, are quick to turn to me and say "Oh, well I didn't mean you!" in reply. Bigotry is bigotry, and I'm calling it as I see it.

Do I need to provide you with a transcript, subeee? Because if that's what you're waiting for, I'm afraid you'll just have to keep waiting.

I once did a little experiment with a Canadian friend of mine who was one of the worst offenders when it came to these kinds of lazy assumptions. For one day, I decided that every time she made a bigoted, uniformed, broad sweeping comment about Americans, I was going to poke her in the ribs. I told her in advance that I was going to do it, just so she could see how often she was making comments that I took offense to and were hurtful. After about the fifth or sixth poke, she started to become annoyed. After about the tenth, it finally sank in that she was making these comments without even thinking about them.

Dismissive? Sure. But it isn't any more dismissive than some of the things I've heard over the years. I think what's different is that maybe many Canadians haven't had many Americans call them on it before.

To you it may matter that you're speaking about the group and not the individual. But I'm a member of that group, and I take my membership in that group very, very seriously. I am here to tell you that it is hurtful, and that it needs to stop.

And please don't get on me about being respectful. I've been nothing but respectful in this thread. I just have a different opinion. But as it seems that this opinion isn't welcome here, I'll bow out and leave y'all to your little Canadian oasis. Don't mind me as I whistle "O Canada" on my way out.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:29 AM   #9
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Ltd et al feel free to completely ignore my post like it has nothing to do with this at all ....


here I'll put it in a nutshell to re-dress: large powerful imperialist-esque nations will be very self-gazing. the states isn't the only one. even though scotland and wales and ireland are all next door, people in england know relatively nothing about them. for example all they know about the welsh is "their language is funny hahaha" and "sheep shaggers hahaha" etc.

It's fucking annoying. But it will never, ever change. not ever. why? because they don't have to. And LTD I don't think of it like an annoying little brother, I think about it like a mentally challenged older cousin who keeps punching you (with things like their unilateral foreign policy, their bullying tactics with NAFTA, their religious right sending money into canada to try and undo our constitution, just to name 3 out of thousands of toe crushing/rib bruising/wrist twisting encouragements made on us - not to mention many other countries) but you have to be nice about it because they'll never "get it" and plus if you piss them off, they'll break your arm.

The relationship used to be called the lion and the mouse, when I was a kid. And Mulrooney, used to be accused of trying to shove the mouse up the elephants ass, which no one liked. However, the one thing people do like in a priminister, is when they have the guts to tell the US to fuck off - like during the NAFTA negotiations when they wanted us to flood our desert in BC to hold water for them. LMAO.

It's a very, very strained relationship. Just like every other country who lives next to a large and very powerful nation. But it won't change. There will always be stupid questions, they will think we're smug when they actually notice us. forever and ever, amen.
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