Troy Davis - Guilty or Innocent?

Corkey · 09-20-2011, 05:36 PM

Guilt or innocent. I don't know and having reasonable doubt he should not be put to death. He should in fact have a new trial.

Nat · 09-21-2011, 01:16 AM

Toughy · 09-21-2011, 10:11 AM

Georgia uses pentobarbital to murder people. It's an animal tranquilizer not approved for use in humans. Even the manufacturer says it should not be used. The reason is sodium pentathol (the approved drug for state sanctioned murder) is no longer manufactured anywhere in the world.

No state sanctioned murder, period, ever for anyone. It makes us barbarians.

Rick Perry (Gov TX) has murdered 235 people in his time as governor, one of them innocent, and he is very proud of it.

ps: I think I got the name of the drugs correct....I saw this on the news last night.

dreadgeek · 09-21-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

Guilt or innocent. I don't know and having reasonable doubt he should not be put to death. He should in fact have a new trial.

A lawyer friend of mine says that he'd like to see us change the death penalty in this way. If you are convicted beyond a reasonable doubt then you *can't* get the death penalty. If, on the other hand, you are convicted beyond ANY doubt you can get the death penalty.

So what is beyond any doubt? You are caught, red-handed, with the smoking gun in your hand on CNN or your DNA is all over the crime scene and you are caught on camera. Basically, if someone would have to invent something worthy of a Harry Potter novel in order to plant reasonable doubt in the mind of a juror then if the crime is heinous then that defendant is eligible for the death penalty.

I am not opposed to the death penalty in and of itself. I am opposed to US using the death penalty at this point in our cultural development because we seem to want it too bad. We seem to have no real appreciation--as a culture--for the gravity of the power we have in our hands. When people can cheer a governor who has presided over the death of 234 people in his state in 10 years (that's averaging slightly less than 2 per month) and we know that *at least* one of them was innocent then we have shown ourselves unworthy of the responsibility of administering the death penalty. Only civilized nations should be able to execute criminals and civilized nations recognize two things:

1) Taking the life of a criminal is still taking the life of a human being
2) Better to keep a guilty man in prison for 10 human lifetimes, than it is to take the life of one innocent man.

We do not understand the first and disturbingly large numbers of us disagree with the second.

Cheers
Aj

Nat · 09-21-2011, 02:35 PM

Troy Davis' request for polygraph denied.

The judge in my sig line has neither a working phone line nor fax line. The governor of Georgia's phone is busy but fax went through. His fax is 404-657-7332. Obama's is 202-456-2461.

Nat · 09-21-2011, 03:36 PM

suebee · 09-21-2011, 04:43 PM

Livestreaming by Democracy Now. Click here.

suebee · 09-21-2011, 05:05 PM

Troy Davis just got a stay of execution!

suebee · 09-21-2011, 05:08 PM

Now they're saying perhaps it was a mistake, that there's no stay. He has not been excecuted yet, but there's no confirmation of a stay.

Nat · 09-21-2011, 05:50 PM

The us supreme court has at the last minute delayed the execution while the facts are reviewed.

MissItalianDiva · 09-21-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

Troy Davis' request for polygraph denied.

The judge in my sig line has neither a working phone line nor fax line. The governor of Georgia's phone is busy but fax went through. His fax is 404-657-7332. Obama's is 202-456-2461.

If I am not mistaken it could not have been used in a new trial so I suppose that doesn't really matter.

suebee · 09-21-2011, 08:22 PM

The Supreme Court has refused to block the execution of Troy Davis.

Nat · 09-21-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suebee

The Supreme Court has refused to block the execution of Troy Davis.

just read that.

Nat · 09-21-2011, 09:09 PM

[Updated at 10:55 p.m.] Davis’ execution is expected to begin between 11:05 to 11:10 p.m. ET, the Georgia Department of Corrections says.

Basically if it's not over yet it will be in the next two minutes.

Kätzchen · 09-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Nat???

I believe he is innocent and my heart hurts to hear or read accounts of human suffering such as Troy Davis'.

My oldest son (a decorated vet, now rendered undecorated for his valorous behaviors in service due to his current imprisonment), is now serving time in prison for a crime he did not commit... I cannot even articulate the pain I feel for my son or others like him who have been wrongfully adjudicated by the (human) system currently in place.

For the record:

I do not support the death penalty.

I would write more but Troy Davis' situation hits too close to home.

AtLast · 09-21-2011, 03:02 PM

Have to say that the governor of Georgia does not have authority to either stop or do anything as an executive to influence this execution. In GA, the pardons board has full authority over this, not the governor. Not all states give clemency/pardon authority to the governor. Now, it does seem to me that the governor in GA might have some other avenue in terms of investigating any possible "tampering" of this Pardon's Board, if for example there is any evidence that the fact that this was the killing of a police officer has any bearing on the boards decision. Each state has different appeal protocols as well. From 1975 to 2003 Georgia governors have been Democrats. So, for the bulk of time that Mr. Davis has been incarcerated and was convicted, there was a Democrat as Governor. Wonder about this Pardons Board.

I have no idea if this man is guilty of this crime. I have followed this case somewhat over a few years in terms of it getting media attention. I do feel that there has been enough about the initial investigation, the number of witness recantations, a possible confession of another person, data on eye witness testimony not being very accurate at all, to put this case into a re-trial stance. I don't understand why this never happened (or am I wrong about his never being re-tried?). Also, there are some problems with witnesses being only shown one photo of this suspect- not a photo among at least 5 other people with similar features. That right there would put me to a place of throwing out the verdict and a new trial being ordered if I were an appeals judge.

I do support the death penalty for some types of crimes, and view it as a just punishment- and as cold as this sounds, I don't care about the drug cocktail and any suffering. I also know that my years working with victims of violent sexual crimes, including against children has a whole lot to do with my feelings.

But, there is no way I can support this execution. I do not believe this man received a fair trial with an impartial jury of his peers. I keep hoping that a "last minute" stay is ordered and he is re-tried. I keep thinking that even in GA, that if the executive powers of the governor’s office was one in which this was on the single conscience of that executive (due to the preponderance of screw-ups in the investigation and even a GOP in this office), this would a very different set of circumstances at this point. Then again, I have to think about the “blue wall” and the police in cases in which an officer is killed. This does not mean I do not feel for this officer’s family. I do.

I don’t think that even as someone losing a loved one via murder, I could rest easy knowing that there is substantial evidence pointing to innocence of Troy Davis. I would want to know the truth and that the right person was being executed. Although, this murder is not among the type I support the death penalty for even if guilty.

This is one of those cases in which our judicial systems loses.

09-20-2011, 05:36 PM	#1
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,269 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	Guilt or innocent. I don't know and having reasonable doubt he should not be put to death. He should in fact have a new trial. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-21-2011, 01:16 AM	#2
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	__________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-21-2011, 10:11 AM	#3
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Georgia uses pentobarbital to murder people. It's an animal tranquilizer not approved for use in humans. Even the manufacturer says it should not be used. The reason is sodium pentathol (the approved drug for state sanctioned murder) is no longer manufactured anywhere in the world. No state sanctioned murder, period, ever for anyone. It makes us barbarians. Rick Perry (Gov TX) has murdered 235 people in his time as governor, one of them innocent, and he is very proud of it. ps: I think I got the name of the drugs correct....I saw this on the news last night. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-21-2011, 02:35 PM	#5
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Troy Davis' request for polygraph denied. The judge in my sig line has neither a working phone line nor fax line. The governor of Georgia's phone is busy but fax went through. His fax is 404-657-7332. Obama's is 202-456-2461. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-21-2011, 03:36 PM	#6
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	__________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-21-2011, 04:43 PM	#7
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450093	*Livestreaming by Democracy Now. Click here.* __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

09-21-2011, 05:05 PM	#8
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450093	*Troy Davis just got a stay of execution!* __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

09-21-2011, 05:08 PM	#9
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450093	*Now they're saying perhaps it was a mistake, that there's no stay. He has not been excecuted yet, but there's no confirmation of a stay.* __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

09-21-2011, 05:50 PM	#10
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	The us supreme court has at the last minute delayed the execution while the facts are reviewed. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-21-2011, 08:22 PM	#12
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450093	*The Supreme Court has refused to block the execution of Troy Davis.* __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

09-21-2011, 09:09 PM	#14
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	[Updated at 10:55 p.m.] Davis’ execution is expected to begin between 11:05 to 11:10 p.m. ET, the Georgia Department of Corrections says. Basically if it's not over yet it will be in the next two minutes. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

09-21-2011, 02:48 PM	#15
Kätzchen Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: Involved with someone special in my hometown Join Date: May 2010 Location: In a small community Posts: 16,292 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,209 Thanked 33,652 Times in 10,739 Posts Rep Power: 21474868	Nat??? I believe he is innocent and my heart hurts to hear or read accounts of human suffering such as Troy Davis'. My oldest son (a decorated vet, now rendered undecorated for his valorous behaviors in service due to his current imprisonment), is now serving time in prison for a crime he did not commit... I cannot even articulate the pain I feel for my son or others like him who have been wrongfully adjudicated by the (human) system currently in place. For the record: I do not support the death penalty. I would write more but Troy Davis' situation hits too close to home.

09-21-2011, 03:02 PM	#16
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	Have to say that the governor of Georgia does not have authority to either stop or do anything as an executive to influence this execution. In GA, the pardons board has full authority over this, not the governor. Not all states give clemency/pardon authority to the governor. Now, it does seem to me that the governor in GA might have some other avenue in terms of investigating any possible "tampering" of this Pardon's Board, if for example there is any evidence that the fact that this was the killing of a police officer has any bearing on the boards decision. Each state has different appeal protocols as well. From 1975 to 2003 Georgia governors have been Democrats. So, for the bulk of time that Mr. Davis has been incarcerated and was convicted, there was a Democrat as Governor. Wonder about this Pardons Board. I have no idea if this man is guilty of this crime. I have followed this case somewhat over a few years in terms of it getting media attention. I do feel that there has been enough about the initial investigation, the number of witness recantations, a possible confession of another person, data on eye witness testimony not being very accurate at all, to put this case into a re-trial stance. I don't understand why this never happened (or am I wrong about his never being re-tried?). Also, there are some problems with witnesses being only shown one photo of this suspect- not a photo among at least 5 other people with similar features. That right there would put me to a place of throwing out the verdict and a new trial being ordered if I were an appeals judge. I do support the death penalty for some types of crimes, and view it as a just punishment- and as cold as this sounds, I don't care about the drug cocktail and any suffering. I also know that my years working with victims of violent sexual crimes, including against children has a whole lot to do with my feelings. But, there is no way I can support this execution. I do not believe this man received a fair trial with an impartial jury of his peers. I keep hoping that a "last minute" stay is ordered and he is re-tried. I keep thinking that even in GA, that if the executive powers of the governor’s office was one in which this was on the single conscience of that executive (due to the preponderance of screw-ups in the investigation and even a GOP in this office), this would a very different set of circumstances at this point. Then again, I have to think about the “blue wall” and the police in cases in which an officer is killed. This does not mean I do not feel for this officer’s family. I do. I don’t think that even as someone losing a loved one via murder, I could rest easy knowing that there is substantial evidence pointing to innocence of Troy Davis. I would want to know the truth and that the right person was being executed. Although, this murder is not among the type I support the death penalty for even if guilty. This is one of those cases in which our judicial systems loses.