Obama's Public Support of Michael Vick

[purepisces]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

What constitutes as "living with the consequences"? What positive outcome for society and animal rights do you believe "living with the consequences" will achieve? I ask because to me, this perspective demands that a person be punished, despite that the individual in question has demonstrated a changed mentality toward animal rights and is now heavily involved in animal rights. What do further "consequences" serve here beyond simple revenge?

Also, I don't really think he's being praised by anyone. Evidently, since he is a high profile person, he's going garner more attention than an average person who goes through the same process. I don't see that as praise. The same thing happens with other celebrities, like Pamela Anderson and so on. It's the media doing what the media does, and I don't believe even Vick himself has much control over that.

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm very happy he has his own show. He has been working hard (in partnership with the Humane Society and others) across the country to end dog fighting. This show sounds like it will be another way for him to get the message of redemption and forgiveness out to others.
People can and do change. Vick deserves praise for what he is now doing.

Ender- I never said that I believe that there is a “positive outcome” for Vick to live with the consequences of his actions. It is just a fact of life. Our choices, our actions, are not in a vacuum. The effect of all we do ripples out in ways we never imagine as we go about our daily lives. By “consequences” I wasn’t referring to any type of “punishment” but simply the fact that the choices he made will continue to impact him.

There are people who won’t support any team that he plays for, who won’t buy products from companies that endorse him and they have every right to express their opinion that way. Just like there are people who will praise him for the changes that they see in him and the work he is doing now and they have every right to express their opinion. There are people who don’t give a crap about him one way or another. It seems to me that “living with the consequences” for Vick will include the fact that dog fighting will be associated with his name for the rest of his life. He will have to find a way to make his peace with that, and it doesn’t have anything to do with revenge, it’s just life.

My comment about praise was in response to several posts in this thread that referred to Vick’s work with the Humane Society, etc. I’ve quoted a post from Toughy that specifically states Vick should be praised. I don’t share that feeling, but, as I said, I appreciate what he is doing, the changes he has made and hope that he will turn out to be a lifelong advocate against animal abuse.

And, I do agree with you about the media.

[The_Lady_Snow]

• Paris Hilton: She has a history of acquiring animal accessories, then forgetting them—one kitten was hit by a car and employees say she abandons animals in closets to die.

• Gerard Butler: Aside from maybe-dating Jennifer Aniston, he's also accused of punching a dog in the face after it touched noses with his pug. He claims the dog attacked first.

• Jesse James: Other personal foibles aside, the biker is accused of fighting his pit bulls to near-death.

• Mike Tyson- PETA asked prosecutors to investigate Mike Tyson's Animal Planet reality TV show about pigeon racing, saying the races likely involve illegal gambling and cruelty to animals. Mike Tyson has apparently been raising pigeons since he was little, but this will be his first venture into racing them. The important thing to take away here is that Mike Tyson raises pigeons.

• Jon Gosselin- made the honest mistake of talking about how his kids treat the family dogs, saying, “Those kids beat them up, climb on them, pull their tails, bite at them, drag them around and everything you can imagine not to do to an animal.” Animal activists got all up in his business and Gosselin issued another statement saying, “We understand the responsibilities of being good dog owners. Whenever my kids are with Shoka and Nala, everyone is carefully supervised to ensure that no one—dog or child—is injured.” That's just how kids are with animals. I used to get knocked on my butt by our German Shepherd and I would turn around and spank him. Just as Jesus would have done, had he been a toddler with a large dog, when the couple broke up the dogs were taken back to the kennel cause Kate couldn't handle them.

Kim Kardashian thinks she's a momma cat and can pose with

a cat by the scruff for spank bank material

[SoNotHer]

And this all sucks as does the other parts of Vick's history. Frankly, who wants genital herpes (Yipee!) given to them and who wants their bank stiffed for a loan default or the rental of 130 cars, never mind the other incredibly bad financial decisions.

If were going to pretend that athletes aren't role models, we don't have common ground to start a discussion. And if were going to pretend that most people, including my students who have had Vick's background and then some, are afforded the second most lucrative contract in sports and get the opportunities that Vick has been afforded, then I really have no common point to begin here.

We are all responsible for actions, and if we can't be trusted in a position of power over an elderly person, or a child, or a partner, or a dog, then we really don't deserve that power.



[QUOTE=The_Lady_Snow;427684]

• Paris Hilton: She has a history of acquiring animal accessories, then forgetting them—one kitten was hit by a car and employees say she abandons animals in closets to die.

• Gerard Butler: Aside from maybe-dating Jennifer Aniston, he's also accused of punching a dog in the face after it touched noses with his pug. He claims the dog attacked first.

[purepisces]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

If were going to pretend that athletes aren't role models, we don't have common ground to start a discussion. And if were going to pretend that most people, including my students who have had Vick's background and then some, are afforded the second most lucrative contract in sports and get the opportunities that Vick has been afforded, then I really have no common point to begin here.

]

SoNotHer - great point. Most people (who are not celebrities/sports stars) do not have the kind of opportunity to start over, get a job, home, financial security etc., that Vick has had after leaving prison. Martha Stewart is the only person I can think of of the top of my head. But, of course, her crimes did not involve the torture, abuse & murder of dogs.