Queers and Immigration

[girl_dee]

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

[Tawse]

Gillian and I are legally married in Canada (and some states I suppose) and we both live in Atlanta. We were very fortunate in the fact that she is a nurse and had no problems what so ever in gaining green card status and within a couple of short years she'll be going for duo citizenship. And for me - I'll be able to get my duo citizenship for Canada since I'm married to her and it's recognized in Canada.

As far as crossing the border - we tell the Canadian side that we're married and have never had a problem (or actually even a side glance which is odd) however we won't tell the US side. Nu uh.

[Julie]

I am sure most of you know, Dreamer and I have been dealing with Immigration laws in the United States for almost two years.

Dreamer lives in Australia and I live in the United States -- 2 years later and about 10k in travel -- We are still where we were. We can marry in NY, but I cannot sponsor Dreamer for a green card, because of the laws of DOMA.

Yesterday, a Trial Judge Rejects DOMA Challenge in Immigration Case, Citing '82 Appeals Court Ruling

http://www.metroweekly.com/poliglot/...oma-chall.html
Posted by Chris Geidner |
September 29, 2011 1:15 PM

Writing that he was bound by a 1982 appeals court decision whose reasoning the U.S. Department of Justice had argued was "no longer valid today," U.S. District Court Judge Stephen V. Wilson dismissed an immigration case challenging the Defense of Marriage Act brought by Indonesian citizen Hamdi Lui and his American husband, Michael Ernest Roberts.

The news, first reported by The Advocate's Andrew Harmon, means that the House Republican leadership, whose 3-2 control of the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group has allowed it to intervene to defense DOMA in court challenges in recent months, secured its first court win in defense of the 1996 law.

The win, though, was a limited one -- as Wilson wrote that the previous appellate court decision controlled his decision and, thus, he could not consider the merits of Lui and Roberts's case arguing that Section 3 of DOMA, the federal definition of marriage, is unconstitutional.

Wilson, in discussing the claims raised by Lui and Roberts, wrote in an order issued on Sept. 28, "To the extent that Plaintiffs Challenge Section 3 of DOMA on equal protection grounds, that issue has been decided by [the 1982 case,] Adams [v. Howerton]."

As Metro Weekly reported on Sept. 6, DOJ -- which announced on Feb. 23 that it was stopping defending DOMA in court challenges -- faulted BLAG in a filing in the case for relying ''[t]hroughout their brief'' on Adams -- a case decided by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which includes the California federal court where Lui and Roberts's case is being heard. The appeals court held in the case that "Congress has determined that preferential status is not warranted for the spouses of homosexual marriages."

The DOJ lawyers argue, however, that ''[t]he reasons the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the denial of immigration benefits in Adams are no longer valid today,'' citing changed laws -- at the time of the opinion there was a statutory exclusion in the Immigration and Nationality Act for "homosexual aliens" -- as well as "intervening events and changing legal and social understandings."

Wilson, though, found that the 1982 decision constrains him -- as a trial court judge -- from being able to make a decision on the question raised by Lui and Roberts without deferring to the Adams decision from the appeals court.

"While Plaintiffs and Defendants point out the alleged deficiencies in the reasoning in Adams, this Court is not in a position to decline to follow Adams or critique its reasoning simply because Plaintiffs and Defendants believe that Adams is poorly reasoned," Wilson writes in the order. "The Court feels bound by Ninth Circuit precedent, and believes that those precedents are sufficiently clear."

The judge found that an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit or a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court would be needed to overrule the Adams decision before an immigration-related DOMA challenge brought in the Ninth Circuit could succeed.

Read Wilson's order: LuiVHolder-Order.pdf

[suebee]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

We've had the exact opposite experience. The border agents have been nothing but respectful. We decided from the very start that we would be completely up front that we were dating. We figured that if we DID run into any discrimination we would have a much better chance of successfully dealing with it if it was out there on the table, rather than being simply perceived on their part. I crossed the border the other day to go to a memorial service for Dandy's aunt, who passed on the weekend, and when the U.S. border agent learned where I was going he actually asked me to give her his condolences. He knows who we are and is very helpful when anything comes up. Of course, in a small community we have the advantage of being known by most of the officials we deal with at the border. We're very grateful that we've been so fortunate. Sorry you're not having as positive experience as we are Dee. That sucks.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I am immigrating to Canada and learning the process as I go, and in the words of the cocky OFFICIAL at the border when I came back after a holiday, "pffft....Good luck staying here legally just because you like it here, I ALMOST didn't let you through, you have one month then you have to leave"

Now I was standing there with my very butch partner and I wish I knew how her reaction would have been had I been standing there with my very invisible femme self.

I am working legally now and jumped through all of the hoops but it's not easy. The border agents in Canada are completely obnoxious and take some sadistic joy out of reminding you that it is THIER discretion on whether to let you through or not.

I don’t understand why that border guard would say something like that. Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world. They have a pretty wide open immigration policy. Compared to the U.S., well it isn’t remotely comparable, so forget that. The U.S. accepts more refugees than any other nation. Since there aren’t any Canadian refugees seeking protection in the U.S., that I know of anyway, immigrating from Canada to the U.S is much more difficult, unless you have some trade or vocation that is sought after. It is infinitely easier to immigrate from the U.S. to Canada, especially for same sex couples.

What category are you trying to immigrate under? It sounds like you already have a work permit. As a U.S. citizen you can live legally in Canada for 6 months. Though if you are going back and forth over the border a lot you might consider getting a visitor's record. That is what I did. I immigrated under the family class and never had a bit of trouble getting over the border and I traveled back and forth frequently. As a matter of fact I brought tons of stuff over without any hassle. I had most of my stuff already here by the time I got legal permission to bring my personal things over.

The first time I flew from Boston to Montreal I remember being asked numerous, what I considered absurd, questions. I had never traveled where I had to cross over borders before. I was appalled at what I considered to be invasive questions. Here is an excerpt already in progress:

Agent: "Who are you going to visit?"

Me: "Andrea."

Agent: "What is her last name?"

Me: "I don't know."

Agent: "You don't know the last name of the person you are going to visit?"

Me: "That's right."

Agent: "What is her address?"

Me: "I don't know."

Agent: "You are going to visit someone and you don't know her last name or her address?"

Me: "That's right. She did tell me her last name but I forgot. Also, I don't know my way around Montreal so memorizing her address seemed unnecessary, especially since she is picking me up and is hopefully waiting for me outside. However had I known these were things I needed to know to enter Canada I would certainly have written them down.”

At that point the guy made a disgusted sound and pushed my passport at me.

Of course I knew the answers to his questions but I didn’t like him asking them. It felt intrusive and I thought it was none of his business. I wasn’t aware of the questions border people ask and have a right to ask. Which is anything and everything.

Flash forward eight years and I’ve become quite familiar with their questions. But every time I think I’ve heard it all, I get surprised. But no one has ever been rude or unhelpful.

But yes, without question, and never doubt it for a minute, it is always at the discretion of the border guard whether you will be allowed to enter their country. I was just lucky that guy at the airport was feeling generous or bored or both. It could have turned out badly for me and it could have ended up a much longer wait at the airport.

When I look back over the years before I became a permanent resident and subsequently a Canadian citizen, I remember being quite nervous when I had to cross over and then come back into Canada. I knew there could always be issues. It is scary when someone has the power to keep you from your home and your loved ones. But I have to say I had no problems at all. Never. And once I had a visitor’s record it was really a piece of cake. I remember when I stopped in at the border to renew my visitor’s record the border guard told me that I had been accepted as a permanent resident and no longer would need a visitor's record, but he would renew my visitor’s record just in case it took awhile for the stuff to be mailed out. He didn’t have to tell me that, he could have just given me the record and let me wait to find out the good news. Very cool that he did though.

Now that I have dual citizenship I am never questioned coming back into Canada. They just want to know what I have to declare. When going into the U.S. though there are still questions even though I am a U.S. citizen because Andrea is not. They always ask where we live and either how we know each other or what is the nature of our relationship. I just say “she’s my wife.” I haven’t had any real trouble from the U.S border guards. Sometimes that response seems to cause them to ask tons more questions and look in the trunk but other times we just get a smile, a couple of perfunctory questions, and wish for a nice day when our passports are returned and we are waved on.

I always show my U.S. passport when I enter the U.S. When I enter Canada or any other country I always show my Canadian passport because Canada is where I live.

[girl_dee]

I don't know why she said that to me either, but she did.

While visiting in Canada, I went to the states and back into Canada twice . Each time was a nightmare at the border.

The first time I was picked up by my Syr who was unaware I was being interrogated and wondering wtf happened to me after I got off the plane. This border agent woman was just as obnoxious as she could be. This is how it went:


*Do you have a home address in the states?*

*Yes* and I gave it to her

*Do you have mail, a bill anything to prove it is your address?*

*No, I wasn't aware I needed that, I have my drivers license* (she cuts me off)

*You need to prove you are not working illegally*

*How can I do that?*

*Do you have a plane ticket for the end of your stay?*

*no since I don't know when that will be*

*Do you have a bank statement showing you have enough money to support yourself?*

*No but I do have money in the bank*

(Cuts me off everytime)

*Do you have cash on you?*

*yes*

*I need to see it*

I pulled out my Canadian AND american money and laid it across the counter which she glanced at. Then:

*Is someone here to pick you up?*

*Yes*

*who is it*

*Bren*

*how long have you known Bren?*
*How long have you been here, how long were you in the states, where did you work, what is your profession, how long were you at your address in the states, on and on and on*.. i answered them all truthfully of course but sheesh! Then..

*How did you meet Bren?*

*where are you staying *

*Does Bren have a cell phone?*

*yes, why?*

*I need the number*

*gives her the number*

The woman goes somewhere else and calls my Syr, who did not hear her phone in the busy airport. They then PAGED her over the loudspeaker!

She comes back and says I have to wait until she comes to talk to her. Meanwhile I have to wait with all these folks who are from God knows where trying to get into Canada too. All of us feeling like we just robbed a bank. One girl had a dead battery on her phone and could not give the woman the number of the person there to pick her up.

Finally I get called to the counter and stamped with a 3 month stay. Since I had been here for 2 months she thought 3 more months was enough. Apparently they called my Syr into a room and asked her all the same question as me, how did we meet, how long have we known each other etc...
luckily we were both honest and our stories matched. After her hundredth question on how we know each other I do believe Syr informed her that yes she was fucking me and would like to have me back in for a longer stay.. (and a laugh) the officer became in a better mood and even gave me a smile as she slid my visitor record over to me.


I then applied for an extension and received it. SO thought it was safe to leave and come back in...WRONG. The border agent this time was a pure bitch and did not want to let me back in, EVEN with a visitor pass in my hand. She then went on to very abruptly explain that it's 180 days inside of a year, LIMIT.. that I was just about out of days and she would *let me slide* and stay for the remainder of the month. 14 days. I said *Ok, thats fine, how do people immigrate to Canada, I love it here and want to stay*

*hmmmpf ...Good luck finding anyone to let you in because you "Like it here" * .. sort of mocking me...and added *I ALMOST did not let you back in*

I then applied for another extension and while that was being processed I received my work permit. I couldn't even apply for that until my boss received her positive opinion from the government which she had been fighting for 6 months.(ANother nightmare) Once she had that I ran to the border and got my permit. THAT was a good day. I just went and came to the states with that in my hand with no problem.

I mean really! Just give me the facts and I can deal with that, the arrogance and accusation type tone is really unnecessary. All it does it make me nervous and feel like I am a criminal, when actually I just wanted to come for a visit! I've been here long enough to know I want to live here forever, so after my work visa I will be trying for citizen. I completely understand offering jobs to Canadians first, we did that, still they were not happy, they also told us we have to prove in a year that the business has had an increase due to the clients I will bring in.. seriously? what difference does it make to the government if my boss wants to keep me on for any reason whatsoever, but luckily there is an increase so we are documenting and keeping all records so in 9 months we can say HERE, SEE!!!

I am sure there are good and decent border agents out there but the ones I dealt with were miserable, rude and on a power trip.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I don't know why she said that to me either, but she did.

While visiting in Canada, I went to the states and back into Canada twice . Each time was a nightmare at the border.

The first time I was picked up by my Syr who was unaware I was being interrogated and wondering wtf happened to me after I got off the plane. This border agent woman was just as obnoxious as she could be. This is how it went:


*Do you have a home address in the states?*

*Yes* and I gave it to her

*Do you have mail, a bill anything to prove it is your address?*

*No, I wasn't aware I needed that, I have my drivers license* (she cuts me off)

*You need to prove you are not working illegally*

*How can I do that?*

*Do you have a plane ticket for the end of your stay?*

*no since I don't know when that will be*

*Do you have a bank statement showing you have enough money to support yourself?*

*No but I do have money in the bank*

(Cuts me off everytime)

*Do you have cash on you?*

*yes*

*I need to see it*

I pulled out my Canadian AND american money and laid it across the counter which she glanced at. Then:

*Is someone here to pick you up?*

*Yes*

*who is it*

*Bren*

*how long have you known Bren?*
*How long have you been here, how long were you in the states, where did you work, what is your profession, how long were you at your address in the states, on and on and on*.. i answered them all truthfully of course but sheesh! Then..

*How did you meet Bren?*

*where are you staying *

*Does Bren have a cell phone?*

*yes, why?*

*I need the number*

*gives her the number*

The woman goes somewhere else and calls my Syr, who did not hear her phone in the busy airport. They then PAGED her over the loudspeaker!

She comes back and says I have to wait until she comes to talk to her. Meanwhile I have to wait with all these folks who are from God knows where trying to get into Canada too. All of us feeling like we just robbed a bank. One girl had a dead battery on her phone and could not give the woman the number of the person there to pick her up.

Finally I get called to the counter and stamped with a 3 month stay. Since I had been here for 2 months she thought 3 more months was enough. Apparently they called my Syr into a room and asked her all the same question as me, how did we meet, how long have we known each other etc...
luckily we were both honest and our stories matched. After her hundredth question on how we know each other I do believe Syr informed her that yes she was fucking me and would like to have me back in for a longer stay.. (and a laugh) the officer became in a better mood and even gave me a smile as she slid my visitor record over to me.


I then applied for an extension and received it. SO thought it was safe to leave and come back in...WRONG. The border agent this time was a pure bitch and did not want to let me back in, EVEN with a visitor pass in my hand. She then went on to very abruptly explain that it's 180 days inside of a year, LIMIT.. that I was just about out of days and she would *let me slide* and stay for the remainder of the month. 14 days. I said *Ok, thats fine, how do people immigrate to Canada, I love it here and want to stay*

*hmmmpf ...Good luck finding anyone to let you in because you "Like it here" * .. sort of mocking me...and added *I ALMOST did not let you back in*

I then applied for another extension and while that was being processed I received my work permit. I couldn't even apply for that until my boss received her positive opinion from the government which she had been fighting for 6 months.(ANother nightmare) Once she had that I ran to the border and got my permit. THAT was a good day. I just went and came to the states with that in my hand with no problem.

I mean really! Just give me the facts and I can deal with that, the arrogance and accusation type tone is really unnecessary. All it does it make me nervous and feel like I am a criminal, when actually I just wanted to come for a visit! I've been here long enough to know I want to live here forever, so after my work visa I will be trying for citizen. I completely understand offering jobs to Canadians first, we did that, still they were not happy, they also told us we have to prove in a year that the business has had an increase due to the clients I will bring in.. seriously? what difference does it make to the government if my boss wants to keep me on for any reason whatsoever, but luckily there is an increase so we are documenting and keeping all records so in 9 months we can say HERE, SEE!!!

I am sure there are good and decent border agents out there but the ones I dealt with were miserable, rude and on a power trip.

Sounds like you are immigrating under the skilled worker class. I hear that is the most difficult way to do it. I'm sorry things are so hard for you . It sounds horrible. I was lucky in a way because Andrea supported me for the two years I wasn't allowed to work while waiting for permanent residency. It was still a very difficult time but it was pretty much a sure thing I would be allowed to immigrate doing it family class with Andrea sponsoring me. We just had to wait. And while waiting I couldn't work. It's a bit of pressure for a relationship. Anyway you look at it, immigrating is not for the feint of heart. It is stressful for any relationship. We are both more than glad it is over. All in all I waited three years to get citizenship. You have be living in Canada for three years to apply. Anyway best of luck to you. It's not easy. But I hope it at least gets easier for you.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Sounds like you are immigrating under the skilled worker class. I hear that is the most difficult way to do it. I'm sorry things are so hard for you . It sounds horrible. I was lucky in a way because Andrea supported me for the two years I wasn't allowed to work while waiting for permanent residency. It was still a very difficult time but it was pretty much a sure thing I would be allowed to immigrate doing it family class with Andrea sponsoring me. We just had to wait. And while waiting I couldn't work. It's a bit of pressure for a relationship. Anyway you look at it, immigrating is not for the feint of heart. It is stressful for any relationship. We are both more than glad it is over. All in all I waited three years to get citizenship. You have be living in Canada for three years to apply. Anyway best of luck to you. It's not easy. But I hope it at least gets easier for you.

Yes it will get easier I am sure, even the person at the Immigration and Cultural center was at a loss. She advised me to mail in my work permit package to Buffalo and wait for a response like everyone else does, my intuition did not trust that and I went to the border and got it. I took a chance, I could have been turned away and made to wait in the States until it came in. I did not have months to wait for a response telling me I needed more paperwork, I went and plead my case at the border and even that took some convincing. Meanwhile every college exchange student walked in and got one taking about 30 seconds to complete, I am in health care and want to help sickly people, and that did not persuade them one bit.


Yes I am a skilled worker on a temporary permit. This was supposed to be the easiest route, permanent permit being the hardest. They denied my boss's request to hire me twice, once because upon thier urging she posted an ad in the paper, they did not tell her it had to also be on the online website for immigration, and it was denied because of that. Each time starting over at square one. Each denial took 3 months to come back with a response, and yes not working during all that time was both heavenly and scary.

The positive opinion and the work permit are two separate fiascos. Other than working or marrying someone from Canada, not sure how you do it unless you are among the filthy rich.

Nope it's not for the timid, that's for sure.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Other than working or marrying someone from Canada, not sure how you do it unless you are among the filthy rich.

Nope it's not for the timid, that's for sure.

In the hope of being helpful I just wanted to let you know that you don't have to be married to be sponsored by your partner for immigration. Canadian immigration allows for sponsorship of a partner; marriage is optional. We weren't married when Andrea sponsored me to come here. We got married after I got my Canadian citizenship. We got married in Vermont. In case things change in the states and it looks like Andrea might be eligible to get U.S. citizenship, we thought it might help.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

In the hope of being helpful I just wanted to let you know that you don't have to be married to be sponsored by your partner for immigration. Canadian immigration allows for sponsorship of a partner; marriage is optional. We weren't married when Andrea sponsored me to come here. We got married after I got my Canadian citizenship. We got married in Vermont. In case things change in the states and it looks like Andrea might be eligible to get U.S. citizenship, we thought it might help.

Thanks so much, but getting here for that reason would be impossible unless they legalize polygamy .. so work visa was the way to go and it was completely coincidental that I am able to work here with the modality I am trained in!