Loving a Transman Isn't Easy

[SecretAgentMa'am]

If you read the comments on the article, you'll see that the author's spouse commented roughly halfway down. He is very clear in his comment that he self-identifies as a tranny, uses the word tranny regularly, and does not consider it a slur. I don't think there was anything transphobic in her use of the word. She probably just didn't know that a lot of people don't feel the way her partner does about it.

One of the things I've found pretty disturbing in the years since I entered the LGBT community is the unspoken (hell, sometimes spoken outright) ethic that femme lesbians aren't allowed to have non-approved feelings about their partners transitioning. Anything other than wholehearted, joyful support will be labeled as transphobic. I applaud this woman for having the courage to say in public that she didn't have good feelings about her partner's transition, that it was hard for her, that it still is hard.

When I met my wife, she'd already been living 24/7/365 as a woman for 20 years. Trans issues were old hat to her, but the whole concept was entirely new to me. I knew that trans people existed, but I'd never known anyone who was trans as far as I was aware. So, knowing that I had a lot of questions and that some of them might inadvertently be hurtful to her, I started looking for online support communities for partners of trans people. I figured that would be a good way to talk to people who were dealing with some of the same feelings and issues that I was. How wrong I was. I learned pretty early on that any question other than "How can I best express my love and support of my trans partner to the world?" was transphobic. Questions about the long-term health risks of hormone therapy? Transphobic, and how I dare I even suggest that trans people are somehow damaged. Questions about terminology? How dare I use that slur that I had no idea was a slur until I got yelled at for it. Wondering how trans men fit into the lesbian community (keeping in mind that I had been clear that I had almost zero experience with the LGBT community at all), aren't they straight men now? Well, that's just about the most transphobic thing I could possibly have said, and that one got me banned from the group.

I didn't ask any of those questions out of transphobia. I asked them out of sheer ignorance. I honestly didn't know, and I thought a support group would have been the place to ask. Nope. As far as I could find, support groups for anyone who is really, actually struggling or honestly doesn't know how to navigate the community appear to be all but non-existent. I hope more articles like this one are published. Maybe if more partners admit that they didn't feel great about their significant other's transition, they'll be able to get some real support and deal with it better, rather than just learning how to stuff their own needs and feelings.

[betenoire]

Good for her. She's allowed to be upset and she's allowed to mourn. And she's allowed to express it however the hell she wants to express it.

I've been there. I wish 10 years ago that I had the kind of backbone of honesty that she has now.

[Sparx1_1]

I live in Vancouver so just gonna point out that certain terms and phrases that would be seen as offensive and transphobic elsewhere are acceptable here - most notably the word "tranny".

Another thing about Vancouver is it's very open and very supportive transfolk community. There are a lot of people who moved here just to access that support. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around why he would keep this from her; specifically because of where they live.

All that aside, it was very educational and informative to hear an honest opinion from the femme partners side of transitioning.

[Deborah]

My hubby waited a long time after he told me before he actually transitioned (for reasons I won't go in to here) but when he did, he jumped in with both feet. We went to doctors, therapists, group counseling, support groups, you name it. All about HIM. All about trans issues. Because we were activist people, we were activist in this as well. Almost every day there were guys sittiing in my living room talking about penises. I'm a lesbian dudes, penises (unlike "cock") do not attract me.

Do not think I am exaggerating here. In those days at least, when presurgical transmen met, THE top of converation was penises. Was it possible to have one? Which doctor could do the best surgery? What kind of procedures were involved. How much did it cost, Could you get insurance to pay for it? ... and the big one ... Would it WORK?

Thank goodness for MY sake, not all Transmen are interested in going so far as to have bottom surgery...I was with a butch that a year into the relationship decided he wanted to transition and it was like what I copied above, his desire to take that next step was there even if the means to do so never was...at least not during our relationship. The relationship ended for other reasons but I made it perfectly clear then and to everyone else - I have no issue with FTM/transitioning, top surgery or taking T. For ME I could not/do not want to even try to make it work beyond that...I dont consider this a condition on my love for someone, I doubt having a penis (working or not) would make me suddenly stop loving them (I still love my ex-husband, although not romantically) but the reason I left him is the same reason I would leave them...I just cannot live that way.

Sex is an important part of a relationship for me (saying that makes me smile because during my marriage I thought if I never had sex again it would be fine) and I cannot, will not have sex with a 'penis'. I have been out about 13 years and I still feel very niaive about the right and wrong things to say or do...and the last thing I want is to offend anyone...I am strictly speaking for ME. From the very first time I even entertained the thought of being with a woman she was butch very butch...I am attracted to that look, that energy, the maculine/femme dynamic (for ME that may come from living most of my life in a hetero world) whatever it is - it is. I feel I have the best of both worlds with my man. He is himself - and open about it when necessary and not when it isnt necessary...I still very much want to identify as a QueerFemme...being a femme has always made it difficult in my daily world....he understands that I love him for him but it doesnt change me. We talked A LOT about lots of stuff during our getting to know each other period...since we started out being friends it was easy not to hold back likes and dislikes...that 'honeymoon' period where you just want to say all the right things. We had both had relationships that went bad due to not having a clear understanding of what was gonna be a deal breaker and what would work.

I feel for the girl in the original story - like has been said if going in you had no idea this was what you were signing up for it's difficult at best and it has to be understood BOTH people are going through it and in this case not her choice. Seems the overwhelming agreement here is communicating what your feelings are about yourself, your partner and your future. Don't leave out those "daydreams" of living in the wilderness someday off the land, or one day selling everything and traveling the country or perhaps taking the next step to live in the body you always dreamed of....TALK.

I had to come back and say the title to this thread should say..."Loving a Transman Isn't Easy if That's Not What You Signed Up For" because I find loving a transman to be one of the easiest things I have ever done

[julieisafemme]

I read this article awhile back on FB. She is speaking honestly and openly. I did not find her transphobic at all. Partnering with someone who is transitioning is hard. It helps a lot to be able to speak honestly about how you feel. I went to a partner's support group for a year and it was enormously helpful. It was a totally safe space to say whatever we felt without the worry of hurting our partners.

I am glad this woman spoke so candidly. It may help open the dialogue up for other partners, butch, femme or otherwise.

I am also happy to report that transition can be a bonding, nurturing and wonderful experience for a couple as well. Like anything in life there is good and bad all mixed up together. I love my partner and feel closer to him today than I did three years ago when we met. He's changed a lot but in so many wonderful good ways.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Good for her. She's allowed to be upset and she's allowed to mourn. And she's allowed to express it however the hell she wants to express it.

I've been there. I wish 10 years ago that I had the kind of backbone of honesty that she has now.

---I agree---

[lettertodaddy]

Is it possible that her partner didn't lie?

I'm thinking of Chaz Bono as an example. Chaz came out as a lesbian, because he thought that's who he was. And maybe it is who he was at the time. But over time he came to realize that he really was a man and started transitioning. Did Chaz lie to his female partner when he started transitioning after they were together? How can we be so quick to suggest that's what happened in this case?

Without knowing the parties, I'm reluctant to chalk this one up to duplicity. Rather, I think people continue to grow and change throughout a relationship, and this may just be an extreme example of that.

[SelfMadeMan]

Originally Posted by lettertodaddy

Is it possible that her partner didn't lie?

I'm thinking of Chaz Bono as an example. Chaz came out as a lesbian, because he thought that's who he was. And maybe it is who he was at the time. But over time he came to realize that he really was a man and started transitioning. Did Chaz lie to his female partner when he started transitioning after they were together? How can we be so quick to suggest that's what happened in this case?

Without knowing the parties, I'm reluctant to chalk this one up to duplicity. Rather, I think people continue to grow and change throughout a relationship, and this may just be an extreme example of that.

You bring up a good point... and I suppose it is quite possible that a person might not even realize that transition is the path for them early in life. I think sometimes I just assume that everyone has known/realized since early childhood like I did, and that they'd have already realized that the time would come that they would do something about it. But you made me think... and I really can see how maybe it *could* be an epiphany for some.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

I absolutely did not say that slurs are acceptable. I said that in this context, she probably didn't realize that some people would take it as a slur. As has already been mentioned, this couple lives in Canada. Where they live, it's not a slur. It's incredibly unfair to expect someone to not use a word that's in common use and not offensive where they live, just because it is offensive in a completely different country.

I don't live in a completely different country. I'm Canadian. I know plenty of people around here who find the slur offensive. Other Canadians in the comment area from Vancouver themselves voiced that they didn't appreciate the use of the word tranny.

She's also writing this in a popular nation-wide LGBT newspaper (Xtra), that is given out for free in newspaper boxes on street corners across this city and across other Canadian cities. This isn't exactly her personal blog.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

If you read the comments on the article, you'll see that the author's spouse commented roughly halfway down. He is very clear in his comment that he self-identifies as a tranny, uses the word tranny regularly, and does not consider it a slur. I don't think there was anything transphobic in her use of the word. She probably just didn't know that a lot of people don't feel the way her partner does about it.

I don't really care if he identifies as a "tranny" or not. Many trans people don't and she is referring to "rah rah tranny people," not her husband. It's like saying that just because one gay man identifies as a "fag," that it's ok to run around calling all gay men "fags." A cis person has no right to call trans people as a group "trannies."

Edit: I'm sorry if this post came off as harsh, but honestly this kind of thing is really offensive to me. That people on the one hand say that slurs aren't acceptable, but when it comes to trans people it's acceptable. If a trans person wants to take back that slur to identify themselves, then that's fine, but that isn't an excuse to use that to talk about other trans people as a group.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I don't really care if he identifies as a "tranny" or not. Many trans people don't and she is referring to "rah rah tranny people," not her husband. It's like saying that just because one gay man identifies as a "fag," that it's ok to run around calling all gay men "fags." A cis person has no right to call trans people as a group "trannies."

Edit: I'm sorry if this post came off as harsh, but honestly this kind of thing is really offensive to me. That people on the one hand say that slurs aren't acceptable, but when it comes to trans people it's acceptable. If a trans person wants to take back that slur to identify themselves, then that's fine, but that isn't an excuse to use that to talk about other trans people as a group.

I absolutely did not say that slurs are acceptable. I said that in this context, she probably didn't realize that some people would take it as a slur. As has already been mentioned, this couple lives in Canada. Where they live, it's not a slur. It's incredibly unfair to expect someone to not use a word that's in common use and not offensive where they live, just because it is offensive in a completely different country.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by lettertodaddy

I posted this in the femme zone instead of the trans zone because it was written by a femme whose "perfect masculine woman" began transitioning to male four months after they married. I posted it because I've not read many transitioning stories written from a femme's perspective.

http://www.xtra.ca/public/Vancouver/...asy-10868.aspx

I don't find this transphobic at all?

I chose to be with my husband, yet still I had to accept his body hair, the way he smelled, the lack of breasts, my lost identity, my heterosexuality, the questions I asked myself and others asked of me. I was a lesbian and his 'trans' identity didn't change the fact that I was now in a relationship with a man.

I'm glad they stayed together, just as I'm glad I still have my amazing man

[SelfMadeMan]

Agree with both of the last two posts so much! The term 'transphobic' gets tossed around so much lately - likewise, the term misogyny is coming up more and more often, directed at transmen. A person is not transphobic because they choose to leave, when a partner chooses to transition. A person is not transphobic because they choose not to date a trans person. A transman is not misogynistic because he chooses to transition. When I think transphobia or misogyny, I think hate and bias. I think, as a community, we're too critical of one another, and WAY too quick to throw these terms at one another.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by SelfMadeMan

Agree with both of the last two posts so much! The term 'transphobic' gets tossed around so much lately - likewise, the term misogyny is coming up more and more often, directed at transmen. A person is not transphobic because they choose to leave, when a partner chooses to transition. A person is not transphobic because they choose not to date a trans person. A transman is not misogynistic because he chooses to transition. When I think transphobia or misogyny, I think hate and bias. I think, as a community, we're too critical of one another, and WAY too quick to throw these terms at one another.

It's not throwing around transphobia needlessly when the word "tranny" is used by cis people to talk about a group of trans people, or when transphobia is depicted as something that trans people throw at cis people to make them feel guilty or negate their feelings. Sorry, but I continue to see her two statements as transphobic. I don't find her feelings over her husbands transition transphobic, nor would I find it transphobic if she left him. In fact, I think it's probably a good idea for a relationship to end if a cis person can't deal with their partner's transition. If they find their partner "hard to love" because of their transition...maybe a break up is better for both, because I know I wouldn't want to be "harder to love" just because of who I am.

And this is where I get back to the questions I was trying to ask before:

At what point does being angry or hurt stop justifying the use of transphobic language. Does it ever? Or is transphobic language always something that trans people should just have to put up with if the person using it is "hurting" or dealing with a partner's transition.

This, to me, is what support groups have always been for. Getting out negative feelings in an SO-only environment without projecting it onto a whole group or a certain individual out of a marginalized group.

[*Anya*]

I read the article. It did bother me that her tone was so flip about such an important subject. Her use if the word "tranny" made me cringe!

We do not know how her partner took that article or how it made him feel to read it it.

That said, it is a serious and important topic. I watched a documentary on Netflix recently called Gender Rebels. It was quite good. One of the 3 subjects was around the life of a lesbian couple and the process that the femme went through when her partner transitioned.

Her grief and fear was valid and real. There was nothing phobic about it. She knew her lover one way for quite a while and then she needed to view her lover in quite another. She did not know if she would lose their lesbian friends or how it would affect their life.

I believe that there is a grieving process involved for any change as massive as this one.

The documentary showed hers. As her lover transitioned-he became happier while she dealt with her sadness. In the end, it appeared that the love that she had for him was greater than her fears of loss and they remained together.

As a lesbian, I do not know what I would do in the same situation but would like to think that I would be able to process it in a healthy fashion and as the romantic that I am-believe that love can conquer all.

I think that having your partner transition would be quite different than meeting someone new and knowing from them from the beginning as trans.

[Jett]

I've really never understood how a partner who decides to leave someone who is transitioning could be automatically labeled transphobic (though I know sometimes they are).

If I don't find my life mate in a man it doesn't mean misandry is afoot, it means I'm a lesbian, to sweeten the pot, not just lesbian I am highly attracted to a fairly high degree of "femininity", it's what makes my heart initially go boom. Funny too because like I said, hardly misandry, I've found attraction to a few men who were highly feminine in there masculinity (I know that makes sense probably only to me but what the hey).

From my pov, cause it's all I got, I am with a very feminine femme and she has my heart... even if she turned into a big ol' burly butch (let alone transitioning) I would struggle very very VERY hard with that. I would try damn hard because I love her so much... but if that physical, emotional reaction, attraction is not there after her changes would we not be just best of loving friends? Would I be expected to remain with her out of political correctness? I don't think it would be healthy, we both deserve better.

In any relationship, communication is key, in the situation presented (OP) I'd think a person fearing being wrongly labeled transphobic could permanently shut down that critical flow in the time it most needed for both people involved.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

If they find their partner "hard to love" because of their transition...maybe a break up is better for both, because I know I wouldn't want to be "harder to love" just because of who I am.

It probably wasn't meant this way, but this statement feels like it minimizes the process someone would need to go through when faced with the woman you love becoming the man you love. Maybe it's the use of quotes. Or maybe it is simply the tone I am reading into it because of the quotes.

I don't think someone becomes more difficult to love because of who they are but they may not be someone who you can be in love with if they are a man and you are not attracted to men or they are a woman and you are not attracted to woman. Makes sense to me. It's not about the person being harder to love because of who they are.

And this is where I get back to the questions I was trying to ask before:

At what point does being angry or hurt stop justifying the use of transphobic language. Does it ever? Or is transphobic language always something that trans people should just have to put up with if the person using it is "hurting" or dealing with a partner's transition.

No-one needs to put up with phobic language surrounding their identity. However, sometimes pain and anger make us see things in a very myopic way. It does not justify it, but it might, in this case, allow that perhaps the person who used the language is not necessarily transphobic just insensitive. Or not. And trans people or any people for that matter don't have to put up phobic language surrounding their identity because the person using it is hurting or dealing with a partner's transition or whatever. Maybe her husband will because he understands her pain and wants to make allowances or maybe he won't but surely no-one else needs to even consider putting up with it or making allowances at all if they don't want to. And how will she know she is acting in way that is transphobic if no-one tells her. If people explain that what she is saying is hurtful and transphobic and she refuses to accept this and find another way to say the same thing then she IS simply transphobic.

However, it sounds like there is more than her language that is upsetting. It sounds like the idea that someone would be harder to love because of who they are is also a hurtful idea. But I don't think it is about who someone is at all. It might feel that way. But it is not about being harder to love it is simply that people cannot choose what they are sexually attracted to and who they fall in love with. If it is possible for a person to continue to be in love with and sexually attracted to their spouse after transition then i"m sure they will be thrilled. But I don't think it is a choice. And I'm fairly positive that it won't be any harder one way or the other to love the person. They just may not be able to be IN love any longer.

[Cin]

I just wanted to add that I feel the title the woman chose for her blog post is unfortunate. I have been thinking how I would react if my wife decided that she felt she was really a man and needed to transition. I can’t imagine that after loving her for almost nine years that I would find it hard to love him. I may no longer feel the same attraction for him, I may no longer be in love with him, but it would never be that it was hard or easy to love him, it would just simply be, that I do love him. But most likely for me the love would change because I am attracted to women.

I'm sure that's what she meant and finding her way to the IN love again part is what she was referring to. It just made me feel a certain way to read the title of the thread and it took awhile to figure out what was going on for me.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

It probably wasn't meant this way, but this statement feels like it minimizes the process someone would need to go through when faced with the woman you love becoming the man you love. Maybe it's the use of quotes. Or maybe it is simply the tone I am reading into it because of the quotes.

I don't think someone becomes more difficult to love because of who they are but they may not be someone who you can be in love with if they are a man and you are not attracted to men or they are a woman and you are not attracted to woman. Makes sense to me. It's not about the person being harder to love because of who they are.

I used quotations because of the title of the article in question, which is Loving a Trans Man Isn't Easy. Funny enough, I feel like that statement minimizes what trans people go through before finally making the decision to transition. The decision to transition is who they are. The reason transitions are so painful to family and friends to begin with is because of the nature of society, not because of the nature of the trans person.

If they are no longer sexually attracted to their partner, then the decision should be fairly simple: to end the relationship.

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

No-one needs to put up with phobic language surrounding their identity. However, sometimes pain and anger make us see things in a very myopic way. It does not justify it, but it might, in this case, allow that perhaps the person who used the language is not necessarily transphobic just insensitive. Or not. And trans people or any people for that matter don't have to put up phobic language surrounding their identity because the person using it is hurting or dealing with a partner's transition or whatever. Maybe her husband will because he understands her pain and wants to make allowances or maybe he won't but surely no-one else needs to even consider putting up with it or making allowances at all if they don't want to. And how will she know she is acting in way that is transphobic if no-one tells her. If people explain that what she is saying is hurtful and transphobic and she refuses to accept this and find another way to say the same thing then she IS simply transphobic.

The reason I started commenting on this thread is not because of what her husband may or may not be feeling. It's been stated before that he commented that he doesn't take offense to the use of the word tranny because it's a part of his identity. My issue is with the way she talks about a group of "rah rah tranny people", not her husband. We have to remember that this is not a blog. This isn't a forum post. This is an article in a popular Canadian lesbian and gay newspaper. Something tells me that she isn't completely oblivious to how her words can hurt others. The comments by other Vancouverites has told her that those words were offensive to others, if she hadn't figured it out by the time she wrote the article. In fact, the reason the two statements were made seem directly in response to the kind of people who would call out those kind of statements as transphobic. She seems to see making those statements as a part of her grief. Others see it as transphobic because she is not directly talking about her own coping process, but her anger against others who would even use the word transphobia against her.

If they incorrectly called her transphobic because of the fact that she had to cope with her husband's transition and not immediately feel alright with it, then she should have just said she doesn't like being called transphobic because of her uncertainty or feelings of grief over the transition. She doesn't need to reply to them with statements that are transphobic.

My reasons for participating in this thread are not about her grieving process or to criticize it. That is not transphobic. This is not about whether or not she finds her husband attractive or not. That is not transphobic. This is not about whether she ever considered or ever will leave her husband because he is a transman. That, I don't see as transphobic. It's the two statements she made, that I've been pointing out, which carry with them a lot of transphobia.

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

However, it sounds like there is more than her language that is upsetting. It sounds like the idea that someone would be harder to love because of who they are is also a hurtful idea. But I don't think it is about who someone is at all. It might feel that way. But it is not about being harder to love it is simply that people cannot choose what they are sexually attracted to and who they fall in love with. If it is possible for a person to continue to be in love with and sexually attracted to their spouse after transition then i"m sure they will be thrilled. But I don't think it is a choice. And I'm fairly positive that it won't be any harder one way or the other to love the person. They just may not be able to be IN love any longer.

If the person you love is no longer "easy" to love, or is "harder" to love because of their transition (aka: who they are), which is what the title states, then I don't see the point of the relationship anymore. That's just me. It's not about it being "hurtful," as you say, but I just don't see the point of maintaining that kind of relationship. Some people work it out, that's good for them. Others don't and they split. Good on them, too. Leaving a relationship because your partner is trans isn't transphobic. At least they're being honest and admitting that they don't want that kind of relationship. I'd prefer that to being told I'm not "easy" to love. But to each their own on that point.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by SelfMadeMan

Agree with both of the last two posts so much! The term 'transphobic' gets tossed around so much lately - likewise, the term misogyny is coming up more and more often, directed at transmen. A person is not transphobic because they choose to leave, when a partner chooses to transition. A person is not transphobic because they choose not to date a trans person. A transman is not misogynistic because he chooses to transition. When I think transphobia or misogyny, I think hate and bias. I think, as a community, we're too critical of one another, and WAY too quick to throw these terms at one another.

Thank you!!!