OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Ebon]

Occupy Update

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

2 entirely different things going on here...

don't pay taxes then government stops.......what does that look like...no police, no fire, no sewer, no toll roads, no maintenance of roads, no SSI or SSDI or State Disability or medicare or medicaid or military pay, no one guarding jails and prisons, the list goes on and on .........not a good idea in my mind.......

Shutting down corporations is not the same thing as shutting down the government.

And shutting down corporations and banks is exactly what is needed! The 1% are most likely sitting back and laughing about most of this. The idea that a few thousand citizens in the US are taking over public parks which is actually taking away the use of them from other 99%ers is probably quite funny to them. And the only way that that 1% will hear the 98% is through our political processes. We have an opportunity right in front of us- the 2012 general election. Isn't it time the TP and GOP support of Wall Street & banks is stopped? I love the OWS movement in spirit, but think that unless it gets focused on real solutions that the general public can rally behind and put into legislative action, it will not be an effective social movement. And these tactics have to be acceptable across the spectrum of the 99%. What can someone in their 20's have in common with a retirement aged person that has been screwed out of a pension, for example? How does OWS merge the needs across a very diverse 99% to effect change?

[Cin]

Excerpts from Article from Daily Kos - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...via=siderecent

At the Occupy Denver rally, the Police decided to send out riot police to 'crack down' on the protesters and clear the square.
I filmed and photographed the people in attendance, people of all ages and walks of life - all there to peacefully protest and march. In fact as you can see in this video, the speakers spoke out forcefully about remaining non-violent. At the end of the video is a group of kids I included that were there to protest but also to have fun - expressing their freedom of speech and assembly -part of being a free American citizen.
I included them because, well, LMFAO is awesome, and these kids were near the front of the capitol where the Riot police were standing. I assume they were met with the same force. I hope they are OK.
And watch the people in the video, young and old, including mothers with infants and Vets - were these people deserving of this?



here was the police's reaction to the request to occupy the steps of the Capitol


Was that necessary for a lady wanting a job?


A vet?


A mother and child?


this dangerous mob of regular folks?


This is the guy who was trying to explain to the police that their permit included the Capitol Steps.


These regular cops were polite, and even when the first riot police arrived, it seemed innocuous.

I left the rally then, frankly because the speakers doing the Mic Checks were telling the people that there would be no march up the Steps and that everyone should keep protesting back at Veterans Park.
So what happened Denver Police - Tell me why these people deserved bully clubs, guns and riot gear?

[MsMerrick]

Sorry if someone already posted this ?
I heard this guy, this morning on Mark Riley's Show, Radio 1600 AM or http://www.wwrl1600.com/ . ANd had to check out the Youtube. Perhaps what was even more speical, in the interview, he explains how many generations of his family have been in the Armed Forces, including the Police Department..So, unlike me..who grew up in a Liberal Pinko Anti - War , kind of Household.. He comes from a very different background . This is teh full version, well worth sitting through all of it...

I guess i don;t have the embedding "thing" down exactly but .. I think you can access the link : )

[SoNotHer]

Sgt. Shamar Thomas has been on the thread, but it's worth a repost. He tells the police that 'this is not a combat zone and that there is no honor in hurting them (the protestors).' He's amazing. The link to the video works, but here it is again:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry if someone already posted this ?
I heard this guy, this morning on Mark Riley's Show, Radio 1600 AM or http://www.wwrl1600.com/ . ANd had to check out the Youtube. Perhaps what was even more speical, in the interview, he explains how many generations of his family have been in the Armed Forces, including the Police Department..So, unlike me..who grew up in a Liberal Pinko Anti - War , kind of Household.. He comes from a very different background . This is teh full version, well worth sitting through all of it...

I guess i don;t have the embedding "thing" down exactly but .. I think you can access the link : )

[Cin]

Take Five Minutes of Your Day to Keep Wall Street Occupied With This Amazing At-Home Activism Plan

[SoNotHer]

Good videos and question. The more brutal and violent the police response, the more I realize how much we've lost en route to this place.

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Excerpts from Article from Daily Kos - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...via=siderecent

At the Occupy Denver rally, the Police decided to send out riot police to 'crack down' on the protesters and clear the square.
I filmed and photographed the people in attendance, people of all ages and walks of life - all there to peacefully protest and march. In fact as you can see in this video, the speakers spoke out forcefully about remaining non-violent. At the end of the video is a group of kids I included that were there to protest but also to have fun - expressing their freedom of speech and assembly -part of being a free American citizen.
I included them because, well, LMFAO is awesome, and these kids were near the front of the capitol where the Riot police were standing. I assume they were met with the same force. I hope they are OK.
And watch the people in the video, young and old, including mothers with infants and Vets - were these people deserving of this?



here was the police's reaction to the request to occupy the steps of the Capitol


Was that necessary for a lady wanting a job?


A vet?


A mother and child?


this dangerous mob of regular folks?


This is the guy who was trying to explain to the police that their permit included the Capitol Steps.


These regular cops were polite, and even when the first riot police arrived, it seemed innocuous.

I left the rally then, frankly because the speakers doing the Mic Checks were telling the people that there would be no march up the Steps and that everyone should keep protesting back at Veterans Park.
So what happened Denver Police - Tell me why these people deserved bully clubs, guns and riot gear?

[theoddz]

I have to share this with you good folks.

It is really so true, and shocking.

It was on Facebook today, shared by one of my "liked" groups, "Americans Against the Tea Party".



~Theo~

[Cin]

Originally Posted by AtLast

And shutting down corporations and banks is exactly what is needed! The 1% are most likely sitting back and laughing about most of this. The idea that a few thousand citizens in the US are taking over public parks which is actually taking away the use of them from other 99%ers is probably quite funny to them. And the only way that that 1% will hear the 98% is through our political processes. We have an opportunity right in front of us- the 2012 general election. Isn't it time the TP and GOP support of Wall Street & banks is stopped? I love the OWS movement in spirit, but think that unless it gets focused on real solutions that the general public can rally behind and put into legislative action, it will not be an effective social movement. And these tactics have to be acceptable across the spectrum of the 99%. What can someone in their 20's have in common with a retirement aged person that has been screwed out of a pension, for example? How does OWS merge the needs across a very diverse 99% to effect change?

I’m not sure I agree that OWS needs to get focused on real solutions.

I think it’s important to bring attention to the issues. I think it might be the most important thing of all.

I don’t think things are going to get better any time soon.

I do think they will be getting significantly worse as time goes by.

Real solutions, legislative action…we can’t even occupy the Capital steps when we have a permit that allows us to do so. We can't even not get shot in the face with rubber bullets. We can't have peaceful protests without being tear gassed by the paramilitary police there to protect and serve the 1%.

I think the attention of the nation is being focused on the real problems courtesy of all the occupy movements. That is what is most necessary at this time.

None of this is going to go away because it can’t. And it can’t because of the degree of damage caused by the 1% and by their desire keep causing damage and their need to hoard their money and to continue to make tons more standing on our necks. Things have no other way to go.

There will be ample opportunity for real solutions.

I think the 99% or at least a large percentage of them, need help to recognize the depth of the problems. They need help to find a voice. Help to find the words to begin to articulate what they have understood intuitively. Something is very wrong. And it a part of the real solutions that people have the time and the help to figure out that their intuition is correct. There is something very wrong. And it's not caused by the poor. Or minorities. Or immigrants. Or queers. Or a lack of religious values. And then they need an outlet, a place to voice in their own words what they have discovered. That's OWS.

And I have no doubt whatsoever that plenty about the 99% is extremely funny to the 1%. I'm sure they laugh out loud and snicker amongst themselves at how hysterically funny it is that the 99% has believed giving more and more money and tax breaks to the 1% as well as passing laws to benefit the 1% and their corporations would somehow end well for the poor, and the working and middle class. I'm sure they are choking with laughter over that. But I seriously doubt OWS has been the source of many chuckles for the 1%.

[Toughy]

<snip> The idea that a few thousand citizens in the US are taking over public parks which is actually taking away the use of them from other 99%ers <snip>.

If memory serves, it was a few thousand folks who were involved in all the civil rights protests and marches, a few thousand who protested Vietnam, a few thousand people can do many many things.

I also think it's more than a few thousand when you start adding all the people in Occupy camps across the country, plus those who turn out for the marches. Oakland has consistently turned out a thousand people marching around the streets at 11:00pm........with a couple of thousand for the beginning of the marches/rallys. It's bigger than a few thousand.....probably bigger than any of the 60's protests.

I'm not sure what you mean by taking away the use of public parks. Nobody is doing that. If you go to Occupy SF....it's at Justin Herman Plaza across from the Ferry Building.......there are bunches of vendors selling stuff everywhere on that Plaza and the tourists certainly have not stopped going. The last time I was down there folks were playing boccia ball (however you spell that game of rolling a ball and knocking other players balls out of the way...it's Italian I think) on one of two spaces for that. Lots of folks reading all the signs and talking with protestors.

In Oakland, Frank H. Ogawa Plaza, is directly in front of City Hall. Occupy folks are camped out on the grassy area and using the steps of City Hall for their General Assembly every day. You can still go down there and sit on the benches and enjoy your lunch just like you always could.....

Business owners around City Hall and downtown are saying they are losing business because people are afraid to go down there. Who made them afraid? Certainly not the Occupy folks although they are getting the blame for it. It's the police who caused the violence. There are tents set up and there is a childcare tent and a first aid tent and a cooking tent, folks playing hacky sack, playing musical instruments, drumming ....what the hell is so scary about those things?

[theoddz]

Me??

It's still at the point of (relatively) peaceful protesting right now, but I think it's, ultimately and eventually, all going to culminate in a huge, multi-city street riot. Especially if and/or when those who cling to their addictions to money and influence manage to rig the 2012 national election. I even have this creepy feeling that it may even go multinationally around that time because the United States financial system is so interconnected with other governments and other influential financial systems.

My neighbor, whom I've always thought of as a bit of a conspiracy crackpot, has seemed to be, so far, right on target with what he stood out in the street in front of my house and told me would happen a couple of years ago. He said that, when enough ordinary working people had lost their jobs and didn't have a way to feed their families, the ordinary citizen would wake up and the protests would begin and, ultimately, the riots. Everything always seems to hinge on whose ox is getting gored.

We'll see.

~Theo~

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Take Five Minutes of Your Day to Keep Wall Street Occupied With This Amazing At-Home Activism Plan

This is GREAT!

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by theoddz

Me??

It's still at the point of (relatively) peaceful protesting right now, but I think it's, ultimately and eventually, all going to culminate in a huge, multi-city street riot. Especially if and/or when those who cling to their addictions to money and influence manage to rig the 2012 national election. I even have this creepy feeling that it may even go multinationally around that time because the United States financial system is so interconnected with other governments and other influential financial systems.

My neighbor, whom I've always thought of as a bit of a conspiracy crackpot, has seemed to be, so far, right on target with what he stood out in the street in front of my house and told me would happen a couple of years ago. He said that, when enough ordinary working people had lost their jobs and didn't have a way to feed their families, the ordinary citizen would wake up and the protests would begin and, ultimately, the riots. Everything always seems to hinge on whose ox is getting gored.

We'll see.

~Theo~

I agree 100%. I also think that they are trying to use force to try to scare people into stopping protesting (because that always works ) but instead I think it's pissing people off so I believe the riots are going to happen too.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by Ebon

I agree 100%. I also think that they are trying to use force to try to scare people into stopping protesting (because that always works ) but instead I think it's pissing people off so I believe the riots are going to happen too.

You know, not too long ago, someone compared the current situation, meaning the peaceful protesting, to a casserole dish with a piece of cling wrap stretched over the top. They said that the dish below was just slowly simmering, but getting hotter. It was just a matter of time until the heat from within created enough pressure to blow holes in the cling wrap on top. At that point, the hot food inside would blow out through the holes in the top and become like hot lava, spilling from a heated volcano, impossible to stop, at that point.

For some convoluted reason, that made complete sense to me and I've been thinking of that analogy ever since. Strange how we continually recall things like that as we watch these situations play out.

Thanks, Ebon.

~Theo~

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I’m not sure I agree that OWS needs to get focused on real solutions.

I think it’s important to bring attention to the issues. I think it might be the most important thing of all.

I don’t think things are going to get better any time soon.

I do think they will be getting significantly worse as time goes by.

Real solutions, legislative action…we can’t even occupy the Capital steps when we have a permit that allows us to do so. We can't even not get shot in the face with rubber bullets. We can't have peaceful protests without being tear gassed by the paramilitary police there to protect and serve the 1%.

I think the attention of the nation is being focused on the real problems courtesy of all the occupy movements. That is what is most necessary at this time.

None of this is going to go away because it can’t. And it can’t because of the degree of damage caused by the 1% and by their desire keep causing damage and their need to hoard their money and to continue to make tons more standing on our necks. Things have no other way to go.

There will be ample opportunity for real solutions.

I think the 99% or at least a large percentage of them, need help to recognize the depth of the problems. They need help to find a voice. Help to find the words to begin to articulate what they have understood intuitively. Something is very wrong. And it a part of the real solutions that people have the time and the help to figure out that their intuition is correct. There is something very wrong. And it's not caused by the poor. Or minorities. Or immigrants. Or queers. Or a lack of religious values. And then they need an outlet, a place to voice in their own words what they have discovered. That's OWS.

And I have no doubt whatsoever that plenty about the 99% is extremely funny to the 1%. I'm sure they laugh out loud and snicker amongst themselves at how hysterically funny it is that the 99% has believed giving more and more money and tax breaks to the 1% as well as passing laws to benefit the 1% and their corporations would somehow end well for the poor, and the working and middle class. I'm sure they are choking with laughter over that. But I seriously doubt OWS has been the source of many chuckles for the 1%.

I also get tired of hearing what Occupy should do. here's what I think...

There are so many agendas. It's not just about the financial companies but food safety, the way our so-called government programs operate, elections and countless other crimes that have happened against us. The real slap in the face is that we're paying for it with hard labor, blood, sweat and tears yet we are still treated like shit. We are no longer the priority but slaves to this 1%.

I think that everyone is "feeling" it and I'm hoping various groups start to spin off from this addressing the various problems and what the solutions might be. HOWEVER their backs are just not against the wall and if we want to see them listen, prompt change we need to force a hand. The only way is to show that we have the power to shut down banks and big business. This will mean sacrifices and it will cost jobs. But we can't expect to change the foundation if we don't rip down the old.

So what if they closed Walmart and the big box stores? Produce and supplies would cost more at local stores... for a while and demand couldn't possibly be met right away but it has a trickle effect. More local farming, more local business, etc you get the basic idea. We have been manipulated to believe this is the better way but as you can see it was a herding tactic and now we're paying for it.

Make a commitment to 'something". Write down your plan and how you plan to invest in this revolution. If you can't go sit and occupy spread the word and encourage others. Talk talk suggest suggest- today make a commitment to shop local and if it cost more, eat or do less. Stop using credit cards. Cash your checks and take your money out. Yea its a hassle, especially if you run a business. Start working on a plan now to sustain no matter how bad things get before they get better.

[nowandthen]

"the ordinary citizen would wake up"

~Theo~ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

I found this sentence to be very concerning, I think it says so much about the issues of divisiveness. Who Is ordinary? The middle class mostly white? Because poor and homeless white and poc have been under employed and subjected to daily violence. It is a huge valley to cross to see that the 1% is using the military and the police to support the criminalization of the poor. Pitting the middle class against the poor is a great tool of the majority. We have seen it over and over divide and conquer. I do not want to go back to how it was, that leaves to many people out and for me that is the real issue. Class war is happening within the OWS as it does in every other movement. the 99% have different needs that is why there is not one point, there is no universal narrative.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Toughy

2 entirely different things going on here...

don't pay taxes then government stops.......what does that look like...no police, no fire, no sewer, no toll roads, no maintenance of roads, no SSI or SSDI or State Disability or medicare or medicaid or military pay, no one guarding jails and prisons, the list goes on and on .........not a good idea in my mind.......

Shutting down corporations is not the same thing as shutting down the government.

The first part about taxes is more of fantasy, however as it appears our taxes arent enough to keep all those things afloat anyhow. Wasn't it just a few months ago when all of that was at risk in the event of a government shut down? Let's face it Toughy a lot of that IS going to stop/end/ cease to exist anyhow. So I guess I we keep feeding the money pit and we're still fucked. lol

[Sachita]

I know a lot of people post videos and dont get a chance to watch them all BUT this is fucking brilliant! I'm so inspired by doing this I'm going to send back my son's junk mail, my mom's, whatever I can get a hold of. My son gets at least 4 or more letters asking to get yet another credit card, another loan.

If you do nothing else, do this. Pass it around facebook, email it, get everyone doing this. Its great

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Take Five Minutes of Your Day to Keep Wall Street Occupied With This Amazing At-Home Activism Plan

[SoNotHer]

Excellent point and post.

Originally Posted by Toughy

If memory serves, it was a few thousand folks who were involved in all the civil rights protests and marches, a few thousand who protested Vietnam, a few thousand people can do many many things.

I also think it's more than a few thousand when you start adding all the people in Occupy camps across the country, plus those who turn out for the marches. Oakland has consistently turned out a thousand people marching around the streets at 11:00pm........with a couple of thousand for the beginning of the marches/rallys. It's bigger than a few thousand.....probably bigger than any of the 60's protests.

I'm not sure what you mean by taking away the use of public parks. Nobody is doing that. If you go to Occupy SF....it's at Justin Herman Plaza across from the Ferry Building.......there are bunches of vendors selling stuff everywhere on that Plaza and the tourists certainly have not stopped going. The last time I was down there folks were playing boccia ball (however you spell that game of rolling a ball and knocking other players balls out of the way...it's Italian I think) on one of two spaces for that. Lots of folks reading all the signs and talking with protestors.

In Oakland, Frank H. Ogawa Plaza, is directly in front of City Hall. Occupy folks are camped out on the grassy area and using the steps of City Hall for their General Assembly every day. You can still go down there and sit on the benches and enjoy your lunch just like you always could.....

Business owners around City Hall and downtown are saying they are losing business because people are afraid to go down there. Who made them afraid? Certainly not the Occupy folks although they are getting the blame for it. It's the police who caused the violence. There are tents set up and there is a childcare tent and a first aid tent and a cooking tent, folks playing hacky sack, playing musical instruments, drumming ....what the hell is so scary about those things?

[SoNotHer]

I like this, and I'd like to think I've started my own personal revolution some time ago in a number of ways and for a number of reasons.

The one thing I've seen at OWS protest is some conflation of issues. I saw signs, for instance, protesting fluoride in water. I don't happen to agree that flourish belongs in water. But putting up a sign about it at an OWS protest is a little off topic and makes the movement look fractured and unfocused.

Originally Posted by Sachita

I also get tired of hearing what Occupy should do. here's what I think...

Make a commitment to 'something". Write down your plan and how you plan to invest in this revolution. If you can't go sit and occupy spread the word and encourage others. Talk talk suggest suggest- today make a commitment to shop local and if it cost more, eat or do less. Stop using credit cards. Cash your checks and take your money out. Yea its a hassle, especially if you run a business. Start working on a plan now to sustain no matter how bad things get before they get better.