OCCUPY WALL STREET

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

it really upsets me that the focus seems to be on the stuff. PEOPLE are getting hurt. eff the stuff.

Where are you seeing that people are getting hurt? I mean, I believe you but I haven't seen much on livestream.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Where are you seeing that people are getting hurt? I mean, I believe you but I haven't seen much on livestream.

they've brought it up several times on livestream: many arrests and injuries. doesn't sound like anything critical like in oakland, but still.. people are more important to me than stuff . stuff is part of the problem... stuff is what feeds the system. in my experience, when people yell things like, "eff the police" violence follows; it's part of the design of the system. the system that we have is violent, it expects violence and reacts with violence. our language is violent: 'peaceful' protestors are yelling things like "eff the police." that IS violence. it does not excuse the use of physical violence, but it is violent just the same.

if we're going to change things, i believe WE have to change things. coming with violence even in language is not different than what we've done in the past. making someone else the enemy is not different. we have to be different if this movement is going to survive. screaming at the police is escalates the situation. we have to be calm, we have to be peaceful, including in our language. THAT would be different.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

they've brought it up several times on livestream: many arrests and injuries. doesn't sound like anything critical like in oakland, but still.. people are more important to me than stuff . stuff is part of the problem... stuff is what feeds the system. in my experience, when people yell things like, "eff the police" violence follows; it's part of the design of the system. the system that we have is violent, it expects violence and reacts with violence. our language is violent: 'peaceful' protestors are yelling things like "eff the police." that IS violence. it does not excuse the use of physical violence, but it is violent just the same.

if we're going to change things, i believe WE have to change things. coming with violence even in language is not different than what we've done in the past. making someone else the enemy is not different. we have to be different if this movement is going to survive. screaming at the police is escalates the situation. we have to be calm, we have to be peaceful, including in our language. THAT would be different.

The thing about the stuff is:

1) It is almost all donations to OWS by supporters, and much of it is electronics like cameras and laptops which keep people like us updated and connected to the movement, medical equipment and food which is not only for the protestors, but for street people as well. OWS feeds and gives shelter and health care to the homeless! And the rest is generators, tents and camping equipment. None of this stuff is non-essential. A movement like this needs these things to perform it's functions.

2) It is being seized and destroyed without due legal process. All of this is taking place on private property (the park is privately owned) so there is no legal basis for this raid.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

The thing about the stuff is:

1) It is almost all donations to OWS by supporters, and much of it is electronics like cameras and laptops which keep people like us updated and connected to the movement, medical equipment and food which is not only for the protestors, but for street people as well. OWS feeds and gives shelter and health care to the homeless! And the rest is generators, tents and camping equipment. None of this stuff is non-essential. A movement like this needs these things to perform it's functions.

2) It is being seized and destroyed without due legal process. All of this is taking place on private property (the park is privately owned) so there is no legal basis for this raid.

i get all of that and how much it sucks.

[greeneyedgrrl]

i believe that nonviolence is the way to go...including non-violent language.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i believe that nonviolence is the way to go...including non-violent language.

I agree completely.

[dykeumentary]

The NYPD used smart tactics if their goal was to reclaim that physical space.
If the goal of OWS is system-wide change, and more participation of everyday people, maybe this eviction will work towards OWS's goals.
I hope it does.