OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Diavolo]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

I am amazed by it myself. With a few exceptions here in Oakland, in particular, the OWS folks have been completely peaceful and all of the violence has been committed by the State.

Ask your cousin how many of her friends have lost their houses to the banks while they were working on a modification? My experience as an REO real estate broker is that while the bank is working on your modification they are "double tracking" the foreclosure. Meaning they are stringing you out and then "Bam!" they take your house. I didn't dream up derivatives. Did you? I didn't even dream up options, and while I understand the investment product, options are no more than legalized gambling. I said that in 2000 when I got my Series 7 license. This shit is legalized gambling. So when the OWS folks say the banks have been gambling with our money on our future, they are exactly right. Bank of America is so bloated that they could fail and it would take months for the rank and file to find out about it. Yet their executives still receive huge pay packages while the middle class shrinks away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist for sure, but I believe in conducting business with a soul. Am I working towards the top 1%? You bet your ass. But I think you don't have to make every penny on every deal. You have to give back. A lot. Its the right thing to do. You help people who need help. And you operate with a conscience, not from a place of greed. Greed is still is one of the seven deadly sins. If every business person handled themselves in this manner this country would be out of this mess in a month.

[SoNotHer]

"Double tracking," eh? The games never end do they?

Originally Posted by Diavolo

I am amazed by it myself. With a few exceptions here in Oakland, in particular, the OWS folks have been completely peaceful and all of the violence has been committed by the State.

Ask your cousin how many of her friends have lost their houses to the banks while they were working on a modification? My experience as an REO real estate broker is that while the bank is working on your modification they are "double tracking" the foreclosure. Meaning they are stringing you out and then "Bam!" they take your house. I didn't dream up derivatives. Did you? I didn't even dream up options, and while I understand the investment product, options are no more than legalized gambling. I said that in 2000 when I got my Series 7 license. This shit is legalized gambling. So when the OWS folks say the banks have been gambling with our money on our future, they are exactly right. Bank of America is so bloated that they could fail and it would take months for the rank and file to find out about it. Yet their executives still receive huge pay packages while the middle class shrinks away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist for sure, but I believe in conducting business with a soul. Am I working towards the top 1%? You bet your ass. But I think you don't have to make every penny on every deal. You have to give back. A lot. Its the right thing to do. You help people who need help. And you operate with a conscience, not from a place of greed. Greed is still is one of the seven deadly sins. If every business person handled themselves in this manner this country would be out of this mess in a month.

[Bard]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

I very much respect all the posters and viewpoints that have been stated here and I am just wanting to say that yes I don't think that the way it has been done is the right way and while the cops on the street are following orders from higher up it is not a excuse to use methods that are not called for. I am recalling my training in moving a passive resistor and we were taught not to use pepper spray but there are other pressure points that we would use yes it is called pain compliance but it is not a maneuver that will injure you. As a campus police officer I have had to break up some protest because they could not be in the spot that they were as I was told to by my higher command it was a small scale and I was able to just to talk it out. but was I a little scared heck yeah yes I have a gun but the very last thing I want to to have to use it I am here to protect these students but you never know about the beer bottle that gets throws or worse I worry about Officer safety all the time.. again I am not excusing the acts at all they make me ashamed

[Ebon]

I wish they could have finished. He was listening then some idiot started chanting. Then it just got garbled up. Not that I'm a fan of Obama, but had this had been Bush, they would have been escorted out or arrested. Sorry if this is already posted. The Obama chanting was a bit unsettling for me though.

[AtLast]

I absolutely disagree with what has been going on in terms of peaceful assembly and the use of tear gas, etc. to disperse them.

I have to speqk up about the fact that not all OWS demonstrators have been non-violent. Although, the case in SF wherein a woman slashed 2 officers (one in the face) with an exacto knife (which she stole from an artist showing at a street art fair nearby) was not peaceful assembly. Now, it looks like she and the guy she was with were hanging out at the SF encampment and not really OWS people. Most of the attacks on police with bottles, etc. all over the US have been done by anarchist groups or people just there to party. They do not represent the core of OWS demonstrators at all.

This always happens and I do think the cops need to protect themselves. This is a complex set of circumstances. Many of the OWS folks have let the homeless and other groups share space simply due to feeling the pain of disenfranchised people. The non-violent OWS folks are not at fault for a few lashing out at police, but, I just can't sit back and say it has all been peaceful or that police have some things to worry about. How do they know who is safe and not going to strike-out?

In no way do I support what happened at UCD- and I think that the Admin and the campus police department is at fault for failing to train officers for these kinds of protests. Also, I do think there were rogue officers involved that would act that way no matter what.

I sure don't put the actions of a very few "outsiders" that have been violent on the movement as a whole. But, there have been incidences of people attacking officers. This is where I think "knowing" the population is really important and that the first thing that happens should be communication between the campus police chief and demonstrators that can speak to what is planned and who might not be really part of the protest.

The UCD police officers were wrong and I hope prosecuted outside of the university in criminal court. Those students were not posing any kind of physical threat. But other people have. Not many, but it has gone on.

[atomiczombie]

National Day of Action to Stop (and Reverse) Foreclosures

December 6 will be a big day of action for the Occupy Wall Street movement. #OWS will join the struggle of families and communities that have been on the front lines of a struggle for economic justice. We will stand in solidarity and ask our fellow occupations to join us for a national day of action on the foreclosure crisis. We are fighting Wall Street's reach on every block, every farm, every house in America with sit-ins at foreclosed properties to right this moral injustice.

The Occupy movement is born of the simple belief that humanity could meet our common needs if not for the predation and greed of the very few.

Nowhere is this disparity of wealth and power more evident than in the struggle to secure the human right to housing.

In a nation that puts the right to housing at the center of its founding dream, millions of people have lost their homes or fear that they soon will because of the foreclosure crisis. Wall Street created this crisis with lies and greed. And Washington, instead of investigating Wall Street and banks, is cutting back room deals to let bankers escape justice for their crimes.

Wall Street turned a fundamental human need into a badly rigged casino game with fraudulent lending practices and corrupt securitization. They destroyed our economy, kicked tens of thousands of people illegally out of their homes, and are now using a small fraction of the money they stole to buy off politicians and settle for far less than they owe.

More information to come.

Contact: occupyourhomes@gmail.com
On Twitter: @OccupyOurHomes
Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/events/304693926222145/

LINK: http://occupywallst.org/article/dece...eet-goes-home/

[SoNotHer]

I'm happy to know 12/6 :-)

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

LINK: http://occupywallst.org/article/dece...eet-goes-home/

[Diavolo]

My business puts me smack in the middle of the foreclosure debacle. And I've seen it all. Seriously. All. I've been beating a drum on the subject, but it falls on deaf ears. Here's a link to a particularly bad man who still doesn't get it.

http://www.dsnews.com/articles/baum-...ose-2011-11-22

He blames a NYT columnist for the failure of his law firm. The truth is is firm was doomed to fail because of it's depraved corporate culture. The NYT columnist was just the means to the end.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Diavolo

My business puts me smack in the middle of the foreclosure debacle. And I've seen it all. Seriously. All. I've been beating a drum on the subject, but it falls on deaf ears. Here's a link to a particularly bad man who still doesn't get it.

http://www.dsnews.com/articles/baum-...ose-2011-11-22

He blames a NYT columnist for the failure of his law firm. The truth is is firm was doomed to fail because of it's depraved corporate culture. The NYT columnist was just the means to the end.

I remember seeing those disgusting Halloween office party pictures a couple weeks ago on Countdown with Keith Olbermann. I have no sympathy for this guy.

[SoNotHer]

MYTH #1: The congressional Super Committee failed because both sides refuse to compromise.


REALITY: The Super Committee failed because Republicans’ number one, non-negotiable priority is to protect millionaires and billionaires from paying even one more penny in taxes.1 Democrats repeatedly offered deep spending cuts (far deeper than most progressives would like) in exchange for raising taxes on the wealthy and closing corporate loopholes, only to be refused again and again.2 So even though the vast majority of Americans say they want to protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits, and raise taxes on the rich and corporations,3 that won’t happen until Republicans put aside their extremist stance.


MYTH #2: Nobody knows what Occupy Wall Street is about.


REALITY: Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.4


MYTH #3: Occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.


REALITY: As anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings.5 And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.6


MYTH #4: Occupy Wall Street is intent on provoking violence, especially against banks and the police.


REALITY: Occupations across the country have committed themselves to nonviolent protest, in the greatest traditions of protest movements. Some of their protests have been met with acts of police violence–tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets7–but in many cases, protesters have reminded police that the police are part of the 99%, too.8 And in the few cases when people have shown up at occupations and committed acts of vandalism, other protesters have even repaired their acts of vandalism.9


MYTH #5: The biggest crisis facing our country is out of control government spending.


REALITY: The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts.10 We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 191711–pay their fair share.

[Diavolo]

Ever cook something jalapenos in it and accidentally get it in your eye? Or your nose? Scoville index on a jalapeno is max 8000. Police grade pepper spray? In excess of 2million heat units.

http://www.eatmorechiles.com/Scoville_Heat.html

I loves me some heat, but not 250 times the heat of a jalapeno sprayed in my face.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by Bard

I very much respect all the posters and viewpoints that have been stated here and I am just wanting to say that yes I don't think that the way it has been done is the right way and while the cops on the street are following orders from higher up it is not a excuse to use methods that are not called for. I am recalling my training in moving a passive resistor and we were taught not to use pepper spray but there are other pressure points that we would use yes it is called pain compliance but it is not a maneuver that will injure you. As a campus police officer I have had to break up some protest because they could not be in the spot that they were as I was told to by my higher command it was a small scale and I was able to just to talk it out. but was I a little scared heck yeah yes I have a gun but the very last thing I want to to have to use it I am here to protect these students but you never know about the beer bottle that gets throws or worse I worry about Officer safety all the time.. again I am not excusing the acts at all they make me ashamed

thank you for your input. i'm wondering how long ago your training was? and if you think location of training would make a difference? my cousin is a cop in la county and all her buddies chimed in with the same kind of response: saying that the people sprayed deserved it and the cops were showing restraint.

[SoNotHer]

From - http://movetoamend.org/amendment

Amendment

Section 1 [Corporations are not people and can be regulated]

The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons only.

Artificial entities, such as corporations, limited liability companies, and other entities, established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state shall have no rights under this Constitution and are subject to regulation by the People, through Federal, State, or local law.

The privileges of artificial entities shall be determined by the People, through Federal, State, or local law, and shall not be construed to be inherent or inalienable.

Section 2 [Money is not speech and can be regulated]

Federal, State and local government shall regulate, limit, or prohibit contributions and expenditures, including a candidate’s own contributions and expenditures, for the purpose of influencing in any way the election of any candidate for public office or any ballot measure.

Federal, State and local government shall require that any permissible contributions and expenditures be publicly disclosed.

The judiciary shall not construe the spending of money to influence elections to be speech under the First Amendment.

Section 3

Nothing contained in this amendment shall be construed to abridge the freedom of the press.

Help Us Name The Amendment!

What do you think the amendment should be called? We want to hear from you!

Here are some ideas already proposed:

Amendment to End Corporate Rule
Clean Elections Amendment
Abolish Corporate Personhood Amendment
Amendment to Remove Corporations from the Constitution
End Corporate Personhood Amendment
Making Democracy Real Amendment
The Democracy Renewal Amendment
Government of the People Amendment
The 99% Amendment
The Amendment to Liberate Democracy (or Our Republic)
We the People Amendment
The Peoples Personhood Amendment
Corporations are Not People, Money is Not Speech Amendment
The Common Sense Amendment

[mustangjeano]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

MYTH #1: The congressional Super Committee failed because both sides refuse to compromise.


REALITY: The Super Committee failed because Republicans’ number one, non-negotiable priority is to protect millionaires and billionaires from paying even one more penny in taxes.1 Democrats repeatedly offered deep spending cuts (far deeper than most progressives would like) in exchange for raising taxes on the wealthy and closing corporate loopholes, only to be refused again and again.2 So even though the vast majority of Americans say they want to protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits, and raise taxes on the rich and corporations,3 that won’t happen until Republicans put aside their extremist stance.


MYTH #2: Nobody knows what Occupy Wall Street is about.


REALITY: Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.4


MYTH #3: Occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.


REALITY: As anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings.5 And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.6


MYTH #4: Occupy Wall Street is intent on provoking violence, especially against banks and the police.


REALITY: Occupations across the country have committed themselves to nonviolent protest, in the greatest traditions of protest movements. Some of their protests have been met with acts of police violence–tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets7–but in many cases, protesters have reminded police that the police are part of the 99%, too.8 And in the few cases when people have shown up at occupations and committed acts of vandalism, other protesters have even repaired their acts of vandalism.9


MYTH #5: The biggest crisis facing our country is out of control government spending.


REALITY: The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts.10 We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 191711–pay their fair share.

Very well put. Thank you

[AtLast]

Social movements absolutely effect change in our political system- Vietnam is a very good example of this. Yet, it took 5-7 years for this to happen. There is a lot of groundeork to this. And starting as individuals outside of protesting (keep doing that, too), we must enter the political climate via local elections on up.

I know that for our particular queer population, it isn't easy to get involved with groups outside of our comfort zone, but we have to. We have to be part of voter registration drives, volunteer to work at polling places, volunteer for candidates (and some of them will not have ALL of our stances on issues), educate our families and neighbors and just participate in the system that I know we have problems with. But, the right-wing has done this quite effectively mainly due to the assumption that they represent the majority of the electorate. They do not! The US is quite diverse.

Yes, when I have gone to some candidate meeting at someone's home, I have received the "stare" - even in a region that is touted as very open. We tend to only join political groups with people like us- and that isn't going to get to the numbers we need in the US to be heard.

This movement needs to get our messages out much sooner than in the past- and we need to join forces with people that align politically but look different than we do and take our rightful place in our democracy. I have found that most of the fears I have about joining community action groups outside of queerdom are false and that I have much more in common with people outside of my usual social groups than I realized.

This movement needs to "move" along to action that will have an impact on our political institutions much faster than in the past.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by AtLast

I have to speqk up about the fact that not all OWS demonstrators have been non-violent. Although, the case in SF wherein a woman slashed 2 officers (one in the face) with an exacto knife (which she stole from an artist showing at a street art fair nearby) was not peaceful assembly. Now, it looks like she and the guy she was with were hanging out at the SF encampment and not really OWS people. Most of the attacks on police with bottles, etc. all over the US have been done by anarchist groups or people just there to party. They do not represent the core of OWS demonstrators at all.

As someone who is admittedly and openly sceptical about the Occupy movement, this is one of the aspects that I struggle with. On the one hand the Occupy movement tries to portray itself as representing all, or almost all (99%) of society, uses rhetoric and, on occasions, imagery that attracts anarchists and, worse, those with no sense of social responsibility ... and, yet, distances itself from the consequences that result.

The desecration of St Paul's Cathedral here in London is the perfect case in point.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

As someone who is admittedly and openly sceptical about the Occupy movement, this is one of the aspects that I struggle with. On the one hand the Occupy movement tries to portray itself as representing all, or almost all (99%) of society, uses rhetoric and, on occasions, imagery that attracts anarchists and, worse, those with no sense of social responsibility ... and, yet, distances itself from the consequences that result.

The desecration of St Paul's Cathedral here in London is the perfect case in point.

Funny, I think Occupy is calling on the world to be more socially responsible. Social responsibility is really it's core message.

I think it is really important to understand that Occupy is about peaceful protest and non-violence. Any riff-raff elements out there who do cause trouble don't represent Occupy. I don't like it when people look at those few anarchists and trouble makers who show up at peaceful protests and cause trouble, and assume that they represent the protestors. The Occupy movement doesn't actively try to attract anarchists. Anarchists just see an opportunity to make trouble so they show up. Desecration of property is not in any way a goal of or condoned by the Occupy movement.

[SoNotHer]

I'm stealing this from Ruby Woo's post on another page. I hope you all here in the States had a good holiday today. :-)

[Kätzchen]

AZ,
thank you for the nudge about my participation in this forum thread.

I've been very quiet... When I'm quiet, it can mean a number of things but most generally, my being quiet in this instance (OWS, et al) concerns knowing certain people in my region who play instrumental roles, publicly.

When I see them make particular decisions that do not square with my reality, I sit up and take notice and listen with an acuteness to detail. I try to gather as much information as I can - verbal, non-verbal, hidden elements in various fields of interest, so that I am able to gather some sort of meaning that makes sense not only to me, but helps me to understand them better as well. Sometimes I am able to understand better and other times my own trained incapacities limit my ability to see a fuller picture of what is transpiring.

I'm not happy with some of the decisions made by key officials in Portland.

I'm not able to deliberate on those feelings or things I am privy to or what kind of meaning-making I am getting from everything that transpired in our city.

What I can say this morning is more along the lines of a comment and thanks to Diavalo's recent post on organizational culture, I am able to say that Diavalo's observation on key elements in organizational culture illustrate a key principle in Organizational culture: Organizational culture (no matter if the culture we speak about resides in the OWS movement, institutional houses of power, familial, community, workplace or such) mirrors problematics in tangible or intangible ways with respect to how values, decisions or a sharing of goals culminates over time.

Whether an organization succeeds, stumbles and recovers, or fails, we can examine what elements of culture within the company and community it resides in and take note of what elements contributed to success or failure or a stalling of growth necessary to bring all elements together to produce an orchestration of success or failure.

IMO, the most successful organizations resist isomorphic elements and utilize sets of data key in determining the breadth or depth in order to orchestrate and administer successful mission priori.

Thank you for your observation and comments Diavalo.

One thought that has stayed with me since the inception of the OWS movement is that greater care to detail of organizational success might be worth a closer fine-toothed examination for clues on maintaining strength and equilibrium at optimal peak performance to withstand isomorphic tendencies that impale organizational success. A field marshalling of logistical detail.

That's all I've got today and I wish each of you a beautiful holiday weekend,

~D

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Desecration of property is not in any way a goal of or condoned by the Occupy movement.

Who actually speaks for the Occupy movement? Who decides or articulates what its goals actually are? I'm struggling to identify who or what does this.

Desecration of property is certainly what has happened at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Rightly or wrongly, the "Occupy" movement has been perceived by many here in the UK as either participating in or supporting that desecration or, alternatively, standing back passively and enabling it to happen.

As a result, sympathy for the "Occupy" movement has fallen, certainly here in London, in recent weeks as this protest continues directly outside a place of worship.