Cynthia Nixon says she's gay by 'choice.' Is it really a choice?

[JustJo]

I've stayed out of this convo because I don't have strong opinions either way.

I think it's perfectly possible that some of us are born this way, some choose this, some grow into it, some discover it....and I'm good with whatever. To each their own.

I also think it's very likely that the conservative voices that hate us for it will hate us all equally and try to find a way to eradicate it....whether it was born or chosen.

I think the most important thing is that we present a united front to those folks...even when we internally disagree...and not pick each other apart for our differences. This is why I have finally decided to participate....because I find the "anti-bisexual" stuff recently expressed in here as disgusting and mean.

I don't define anyone else, and they don't define me. I don't have to share someone's ID or preferences or lifestyle....or even "approve" of it. However, we are all in this community together...and throwing out those negative judgments based on who someone is, is just plain nasty.

[Arwen]

I realize this has warped a bit from Cynthia Nixon to other areas. I'm not going to support the idea that bisexuals are what's wrong with the queer community. That idea is repugnant to me for a lot of reasons.

A person gets to choose how they define themselves unless we are living in a country where that freedom isn't available any more?

Let me know so I can pack and move, mmmkay?

Honestly, some of the hate and loathing expressed here makes my skin crawl. I'm out for the weekend. Hopefully the air will be a little cleaner once I get back.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Vlasta, has a right to her opinion and has a right to feel the way she does about Bisexuals, albeit not a popular opinion today. Just 25 years ago it was a very popular feeling. Instead of blasting and attacking anyone who has a difference of opinion, it helps to be patient and maybe help them to better understand another positive side to something that they may not be aware of or have experienced first hand. People have a tendency to judge a person or a situation by their own experiences. If you have had a positive experience, SHARE IT!

It's amazing how much we see this all the time over the last decade in online discussions. When someone has a difference of opinion, instead of looking at it as a time to attack it could be used as a time to educate. If you don't want to educate in a patient manner then back away once you've said you disagree with them. Building bridges and widening roads. We don't get there by saying you have to walk down this narrow path with me and think and act and be just like me, right now in this moment, and you are not allowed to grow at your own pace, and if you can't keep up then GET OFF the road. I hate that way of thinking more than I hate a rusty dusty opinion. A rusty dusty opinion can be changed faster than a controlling person.

The Gay Community grew from being Anti-Bisexual, because some of us stopped, listened, accepted, and educated others that not all Bisexuals are out to hurt, or harm, or use you. And not all Bisexuals are confused. These are all old out-dated sterotype ideas based on a Gay or Lesbian's (or anyone elses) unpleasant past experiences. It created a fear of Bisexuals. I believe that the interenet also helped to educate many quickly that Bisexuals come in many different flavors just like the rest of us. My theory anyway is 70% of the population is Bisexual. LoL.

Another interesting fact...

Just a couple of months ago, driving down the road here in Texas, I was passing through radio stations when I paused long enough to hear a local Pastor/Minister say: "All Lesbians have been sexually abused"! I thought, Oh NO he didn't just say that... but, the truth is even that outdated thought process is still rapant in the Christian Community. The Pastor then went on to say he knew this because he was told by a Pastor of one of the largest Churches with the largest followings in America (I would like to know who this Pastor is!!!!). He also said, that this well-known Pastor said, EVERY Lesbian he has Counseled with has ALWAYS been sexually abused. NO WONDER THEY THINK IT"S A CHOICE!!!!! That explains why some of my Christian relatives in the past asked me if this was true for me, for GOD's sake!!! He was probably their Minister!! LoL.That damned Pastor!!! Anyway the point of this Pastor's message was for his listeners to have compassion on Lesbians and stop the hate and start helping them come back to Jesus.

So there is still lots of work to do, North, South, East and West, but it won't be worked out with hate and impatience against lack of education.

[The_Lady_Snow]

25 years ago homosexual = pedophile, no one was "attacking" Vlasta, her opinion is incorrect about bisexuals. We can post our thoughts and if our thoughts are incorrect they be challenged. Her words were heavy, had this been said about say butches I'm pretty sure you'd challenge her opinion as well.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

25 years ago homosexual = pedophile, no one was "attacking" Vlasta, her opinion is incorrect about bisexuals. We can post our thoughts and if our thoughts are incorrect they be challenged. Her words were heavy, had this been said about say butches I'm pretty sure you'd challenge her opinion as well.

2012 Homosexual still = pedophile for some.

I lived in Atlanta during that time, and Gays were very very popular there and also in other major cities. Granted not so popular in other areas, most often not in smaller cities and towns as often still the case today.

I do understand that Vlasta's words would be very heavy to you or anyone who is Bisexual or anyone else for other reasons. Maybe to you Lady Snow no one was attacking Vlasta, but there were statements that I read, that felt to me as an attack. And I wont go and nit pick them out. And yes, I would be right here and willing to educate and debate if it were about Butches, MtFs, FtMs, or for anyone else that I felt an understanding of the subject. I am all for healthy debates. That is were we grow.

[Turtle]

One of my favorite ministers says "If you're here, you're Queer." (The Rev. Dr. Lea Brown, formerly of MCC San Francisco, currently at MCC Palm Beaches)

For me, Queer is Queer, is Queer.

People sometimes talk about an evolution in my sexuality...and I think that it is often really an evolution of thought and perception. And without the discussion, without many discussions, we don't know the variance that is possible and then it is much more difficult to form a shift. More openness in language and position facilitates the process, although it can be annoying to the folk who want you to take a stand.

Never a dull moment dealing with these human beings...

[ButchEire]

This makes sense though, because it's entirely possible that every lesbian who has sought his counsel has indeed been sexually abused. A lesbian who has not been sexually abused, in contrast, probably wouldn't be seeking help. He is twisting the meaning behind the behavior to fit his schema or his intention, but his experience is likely accurate.

Originally Posted by Blue_Vegan_Daddy-O

Driving down the road here in Texas, I was passing through radio stations when I paused long enough to hear a local Pastor/Minister say: "All Lesbians have been sexually abused"! I thought, Oh NO he didn't just say that... but, the truth is even that outdated thought process is still rapant in the Christian Community. The Pastor then went on to say he knew this because he was told by a Pastor of one of the largest Churches with the largest followings in America (I would like to know who this Pastor is!!!!). He also said, that this well-known Pastor said, EVERY Lesbian he has Counseled with has ALWAYS been sexually abused. NO WONDER THEY THINK IT"S A CHOICE!!!!! That explains why some of my Christian relatives in the past asked me if this was true for me, for GOD's sake!!! He was probably their Minister!! LoL.That damned Pastor!!! Anyway the point of this Pastor's message was for his listeners to have compassion on Lesbians and stop the hate and start helping them come back to Jesus.

So there is still lots of work to do, North, South, East and West, but it won't be worked out with hate and impatience against lack of education.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by ButchEire

This makes sense though, because it's entirely possible that every lesbian who has sought his counsel has indeed been sexually abused. A lesbian who has not been sexually abused, in contrast, probably wouldn't be seeking help. He is twisting the meaning behind the behavior to fit his schema or his intention, but his experience is likely accurate.

I couldn't imagine that such a large church would not have encountered other types of Lesbians other than abused Lesbians. But maybe that is the case, or maybe he is furthering his agenda on who Lesbians are. A prime example of someone making general blanket judgements about others without additional exploration.

[ButchEire]

A healthy (by healthy, I mean no immediate psychological or spiritual issues in this case) person won't have a reason to seek counsel, so his representative sample is already biased. He's basing his supposition on the lesbians in his church who seek help, not the ones who simply attend his services. It's akin to making an assumption about the people who seek any kind of counseling and ignoring the people who simply walk past the door. They are both a part of the larger population and not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by Blue_Vegan_Daddy-O

I couldn't imagine that such a large church would not have encountered other types of Lesbians other than abused Lesbians.

[Sparx1_1]

I have a bigger issue with the comments that I've seen here than the comments that Cynthia Nixon made.

The misinformation, prejudice and outright hatred towards bisexuals has been downright disgusting.

The fact is that there are a huge number of gays and lesbians who consider themselves gay by "choice".
The other fact is that whether or not we were born this way, it hasn't actually been proven yet.

There are exactly two options here - choice or genetics. Expressing this level of hatred towards anyone who chooses to stand behind the (currently) less popular option is unbelievable disturbing.

It took me 4 seconds to find this quote from Cynthia Nixon:
"In terms of sexual orientation I don't really feel I've changed... I'd been with men all my life, and I'd never fallen in love with a woman. But when I did, it didn't seem so strange. I'm just a woman in love with another woman."

If I had to compare the two statements and pass a judgement I would say that she is someone who has enjoyed the freedom to simply be who she is and never had to give it too much thought at all.

[Quintease]

We all knew that 'gay by choice' usually means bi or homoflexible.

But it's her choice to use the word bisexual as she is very correct that it is thought badly of.

There are very few gay people who are here by choice HOWEVER, why should this matter? Why are we better, more acceptable, more correct by being 'born this way'? By having the choice taken out of our hands, by making the best of a bad situation? Why?

Why shouldn't a boy or girl who has a choice, be able to choose? 'The implication being that noone would choose to be gay, unless they are sick, demented or just dishonest with themselves.

I'm glad Cynthia said what she did. Good on her for starting the discussion.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

OMG.. this picture almost made me want to cry! Have you seen this yet? I don't know if I can make it show up here, because I'm behind the times like that sometimes, Lol.

A Christian group shows up to a Chicago Gay Pride parade holding apologetic signs including "I'm sorry for how the church treated you".





If it doesn't work here it is... http://imgur.com/bVD9p

[blush]

It would be interesting to start conversations with straight people about when they choose to be straight.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Quintease

We all knew that 'gay by choice' usually means bi or homoflexible.

But it's her choice to use the word bisexual as she is very correct that it is thought badly of.

There are very few gay people who are here by choice HOWEVER, why should this matter? Why are we better, more acceptable, more correct by being 'born this way'? By having the choice taken out of our hands, by making the best of a bad situation? Why?

Why shouldn't a boy or girl who has a choice, be able to choose? 'The implication being that noone would choose to be gay, unless they are sick, demented or just dishonest with themselves.

I'm glad Cynthia said what she did. Good on her for starting the discussion.

I didnt know "gay by choice" usually means bi or homoflexible. I never heard homoflexible either. What does it mean? Is there a heteroflexible?

Thinking out loud and trying to sort it out in my head....I find questions swirling around up there like..... Is sexual orientation determined by who we choose to fuck at a certain time in our lives or is it something more? What does it mean to Cynthia to call herself gay by choice rather than a lesbian by choice? Is there a difference? If Cynthia and her girlfriend break up, will she simply unchoose to be gay? Or would she be choosing to be ungay Is there such a thing as episodic gayness? If I, god help me, ever decide to have a relationship with a man, does that mean I am no longer a lesbian? Does that make me a hetero?

Is gay by choice different from gay by preference i.e. those who are equally attracted to both sexes but prefer one over the other? Are people in prison who have only one sex to choose from considered gay by circumstance?

How does all this impact gay or questioning kids today? How does it affect any kid who is becoming sexual and experiementing. It confuses the crap out of me and I have been at this for a while now.

[T4Texas]

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

I have a bigger issue with the comments that I've seen here than the comments that Cynthia Nixon made.

There are exactly two options here - choice or genetics. Expressing this level of hatred towards anyone who chooses to stand behind the (currently) less popular option is unbelievable disturbing.

.

Perhaps we should all be concerned with how to conduct ourselves now that we are here, rather than how we got here. At the end of the day we are still gay and still oppressed by some sections of society so its up to us to make the difference because the religious right surely wont.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Blue_Vegan_Daddy-O

If you have had a positive experience, SHARE IT!

Please, just fucking please no.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Please, just fucking please no.

...........LoL!

[blush]

Originally Posted by Blue_Vegan_Daddy-O

Vlasta, has a right to her opinion and has a right to feel the way she does about Bisexuals, albeit not a popular opinion today. Just 25 years ago it was a very popular feeling. Instead of blasting and attacking anyone who has a difference of opinion, it helps to be patient and maybe help them to better understand another positive side to something that they may not be aware of or have experienced first hand. People have a tendency to judge a person or a situation by their own experiences. If you have had a positive experience, SHARE IT!

It's amazing how much we see this all the time over the last decade in online discussions. When someone has a difference of opinion, instead of looking at it as a time to attack it could be used as a time to educate. If you don't want to educate in a patient manner then back away once you've said you disagree with them. Building bridges and widening roads. We don't get there by saying you have to walk down this narrow path with me and think and act and be just like me, right now in this moment, and you are not allowed to grow at your own pace, and if you can't keep up then GET OFF the road. I hate that way of thinking more than I hate a rusty dusty opinion. A rusty dusty opinion can be changed faster than a controlling person.

The Gay Community grew from being Anti-Bisexual, because some of us stopped, listened, accepted, and educated others that not all Bisexuals are out to hurt, or harm, or use you. And not all Bisexuals are confused. These are all old out-dated sterotype ideas based on a Gay or Lesbian's (or anyone elses) unpleasant past experiences. It created a fear of Bisexuals. I believe that the interenet also helped to educate many quickly that Bisexuals come in many different flavors just like the rest of us. My theory anyway is 70% of the population is Bisexual. LoL.

Another interesting fact...

Just a couple of months ago, driving down the road here in Texas, I was passing through radio stations when I paused long enough to hear a local Pastor/Minister say: "All Lesbians have been sexually abused"! I thought, Oh NO he didn't just say that... but, the truth is even that outdated thought process is still rapant in the Christian Community. The Pastor then went on to say he knew this because he was told by a Pastor of one of the largest Churches with the largest followings in America (I would like to know who this Pastor is!!!!). He also said, that this well-known Pastor said, EVERY Lesbian he has Counseled with has ALWAYS been sexually abused. NO WONDER THEY THINK IT"S A CHOICE!!!!! That explains why some of my Christian relatives in the past asked me if this was true for me, for GOD's sake!!! He was probably their Minister!! LoL.That damned Pastor!!! Anyway the point of this Pastor's message was for his listeners to have compassion on Lesbians and stop the hate and start helping them come back to Jesus.

So there is still lots of work to do, North, South, East and West, but it won't be worked out with hate and impatience against lack of education.

This is not a difference of opinion, to me. Saying you don't like a particular radio station is a difference of opinion. Stating that bisexuals are a threat to queer society (I'm paraphrasing as I understood Vlasta's comment) is going to elicit a strong response. As it should. If this kind of comment was leveled by a right wing minister, would we write it off as a harmless difference of opinion?

Sometimes it feels like we are a bunch of crabs in boiling water trying to climb out of the pot. When one group starts to climb out, they get pulled back down. These types of comments about bisexual people pull all of us down.

[AtLast]

Scientific inquiry has certainly pointed to the genetic, biological bases of all sexuality- and actually points to an awful lot of support for it being quite fluid. Personally, I am not going to judge anyone's belief system about their sexuality- nor their sexuality along the scale of uman sexuality.

I do, wish, however, that we all did a lot more reseach on what has been uncovered about sexuality in recent years.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by blush

This is not a difference of opinion, to me. Saying you don't like a particular radio station is a difference of opinion. Stating that bisexuals are a threat to queer society (I'm paraphrasing as I understood Vlasta's comment) is going to elicit a strong response. As it should. If this kind of comment was leveled by a right wing minister, would we write it off as a harmless difference of opinion?

Sometimes it feels like we are a bunch of crabs in boiling water trying to climb out of the pot. When one group starts to climb out, they get pulled back down. These types of comments about bisexual people pull all of us down.

Blush, I disagree. For someone to say, "Bi's are harming the Gay Community". ...or "Transgendered people are harming the Gay Community". ...or "Gays are destroying the sanctity of Marriage". ...or "Being Gay is a choice". To me all of those are opinions and opinions can change either by personal experience or a change in perspective by some other mind or heart bending situation. Peoples minds over the decades keep changing, stretching and expanding, in turn creating more acceptance for all of us. And I don't look at any of the statements above as harmless. They can be damaging. And through the carnage, understanding can come. It sucks that mental and emotional battlegrounds exist. Too bad everyone couldn't be born with a knowning of all. Instead we are faced with an existence of educating each other on our differences if we choose to.