2012 US General Election Discussions: Start to Finish

Toughy · 01-31-2012, 03:56 AM

because I come from white privilege (with or with out consent) I am required to ask myself if I (and anyone else including the press) hold President Obama to a different standard because he is not a white man......

Would the same columns be written about his failures as the focus or would the columns be about his successes. He has accomplished much.....great strides similar to the great junior god Bill Clinton. Why is the focus on what he has NOT done rather than what he HAS done. Bill in spite of cigars and blue dress stains came out smelling like a rose and probably would get elected today if he could run. In terms of policy, there is not the width of a single strand of silk difference between Bill and Barack.

Yet the latte liberals all love Bill and talk shit about Barack failures rather than for his successes..... stinks of white privilege.....

Cin · 01-31-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

because I come from white privilege (with or with out consent) I am required to ask myself if I (and anyone else including the press) hold President Obama to a different standard because he is not a white man......

Would the same columns be written about his failures as the focus or would the columns be about his successes. He has accomplished much.....great strides similar to the great junior god Bill Clinton. Why is the focus on what he has NOT done rather than what he HAS done. Bill in spite of cigars and blue dress stains came out smelling like a rose and probably would get elected today if he could run. In terms of policy, there is not the width of a single strand of silk difference between Bill and Barack.

Yet the latte liberals all love Bill and talk shit about Barack failures rather than for his successes..... stinks of white privilege.....

Well seems to me that it is not only white people who understand what is going on politically and why. Nor is it only white people who are left of center.

Glen Ford the executive editor of the Black Agenda Report wrote the article
State of Obama: Immunity for Wall Street.http://blackagendareport.com/?q=blog/101

I don't think you have to be white to see the writing on the wall.

I think Clinton caught a break, if you can call what happened to him a break, because economically the country was in pretty good shape. I think it was the comedian Chris Rock that said something to the effect that since Clinton balanced the budget he deserved a blow job or some such thing.

It's a different financial world. People are hurting. That's the only difference I see. Because Clinton was no different. He was no better. The way the system is set up no president can ignore corporate power. Corporations run the country, hell they run the world. They assert global control. That must be at least somewhat clear at this point.

While race certainly plays into how Obama is viewed and assessed, it doesn't mean he need not be held accountable for his actions.

Cin · 01-31-2012, 10:04 AM

Gingrich and Romney Want to Say Adios to Bilingual Ballots
The GOP front-runners endorse a plan that could disenfranchise millions of voters—including their own.
By Adam Serwer

As Republican primary voters head to the polls in Florida on Tuesday, both GOP front-runners have endorsed a policy that would contradict existing law and could disenfranchise millions of voters across the country.

During a recent debate, both Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney supported getting rid of bilingual ballots when the topic was brought up by the moderator. "I would have ballots in English," Gingrich said. "And I think you could have programs where virtually everybody would be able to read the ballots." Romney agreed. "I think Speaker Gingrich is right with regards to what he's described," he said.

That wasn't much of a stretch for Gingrich, who once called Spanish "the language of living in a ghetto." Yet their glib demand for English-only ballots would require amending the Voting Rights Act and doing away with hard-won legal requirements that have existed for decades. It's a sharp turn away from the Bush administration, which despite a spotty civil rights record filed more ballot access cases on behalf of non-English speakers than any administration had before.

"We used to have poll taxes, we used to have whites-only primaries, we used to not let women vote," says Myrna Perez, senior counsel with the Brennan Center's Democracy Program. "Policies that would make our ballots less accessible to Americans based on what language they speak would be at odds with that historical arc towards expanding the franchise."

Bilingual ballots are no abstract issue in Florida, which has a sizeable population of Americans whose first languages are Spanish or Haitian Creole. "The Haitian population is a voting bloc, the Hispanic community is a voting bloc," says Carolyn Thompson, a Florida-based activist with the Advancement Project, a civil rights group. "They pay taxes, they've won the right to vote in their language."

Under the 1975 revision of the Voting Rights Act, communities whose non-English speaking populations reach a certain level have to provide voting materials in alternate languages.

There are 238 jurisdictions covered by the Voting Rights Act's language requirements. It's hard to tell how many voters would be impacted by the repeal of those provisions, but the census estimates that there are more than 19 million eligible voters who come from the communities the law is meant to serve. Ten counties in Florida are among them, four of which went Republican in the last presidential election.

"Some of these ballot measures involve very complex legal language," Camila Gallardo of the Latino civil rights organization National Council of La Raza points out. "Some of the language is hard to understand even for fluent English speakers, let alone if your first language isn't English."

Republicans have long had a complex relationship with Florida. It's the site of great conservative victories, like George W. Bush seizing the presidency in 2000 and Marco Rubio crushing his challengers in 2010's Senate race. But it's also the kind of place where moderates like Jeb Bush and Charlie Crist thrive, a cosmopolitan state that anti-immigrant ex-GOP congressman Tom Tancredo once compared to the Tower of Babel. That's why Gingrich followed up Monday's debate with an appearance on the Spanish-language station Univison in which he called Romney's draconian approach to curtailing illegal immigration an "Obama-level fantasy," and why Romney turned Gingrich's remarks about Spanish being "ghetto" into a campaign ad. In Florida, a Republican who comes off as anti-immigrant or anti-Hispanic could see their political ambitions cut short fast. It's a difficult balancing act for members of a party that is seen as increasingly hostile by Latino voters, who are becoming more influential in American elections.

"They try to appeal to Latinos and Florida and during the general election, but everywhere else they're trying to be tough guys," says Dr. Gary Segura of the national polling firm Latino Decisions. "It's going to be very difficult for them to have it both ways."

More than 1 out of 10 Republican primary voters is Latino in Florida, so it's possible that Romney and Gingrich's commitment to English primacy, if applied, could disenfranchise part of their own base in the state. Or they could just be banking on the possibility that their voters are more likely to be completely bilingual.

"The Cuban population heavily concentrated in the Republican Party are bilingual, fluent, are likely to be able to hang with that," says Segura. "Some number of Republicans would be disenfranchised, but the largest number would be first-generation Puerto Rican Democrats."

Changing federal law isn't easy of course, and the Voting Rights Act was renewed in 2006 for another 25 years. By the time it's up for consideration again, Republicans might have even less interest in ensuring that language minorities have equal access to the ballot box, even in Florida.

"For a long time, Cubans were staunchly in the Republican column, although that demographic is really changing," says Gallardo. "[Today] you see a lot of young Hispanics registering with no party affiliation."

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012...ingual-ballots

MsMerrick · 01-31-2012, 10:57 AM

My thoughts...
Yes of course, WP plays into everything, it just always does... but that's certainly not the only thing
I like the President, I do not like a lot of things he has not done, or has been done.. BUT, overall, I still like the stuff he has done..
My expectations, and dare I say, everyone's expectations ran higher than ..well than I can ever remember, and i am born in 1950, so you do the math !
I look at some of the papers and covers, that came out when President Obama was elected, and damn, we really did pin everything on him ..!
Everyone was disappointed, because..Well there really wasn't any way that we wouldn't have been. He is not the second coming of anything...The emotional toll has been deep.
Enough said. Reality is, he isn't that bad.. and he is better than many tend to think, for whatever reason, there's a blind spot .. But as Al Sharpton famously said ( ok I am not quoting merely paraphrasing because I am too lazy to look it up ) ..Obama may not walk on water, but he's still the best swimmer we got !
I have been deeply angry and disappointed at times...
BUT..when I hear people saying that there is no difference, and i have been hearing this too much lately, between President Obama and ..any of the candidate s on the Right..
I beg to differ..
No, I demand to differ STRONGLY !
There was a time I thought Republicans , Democrats, whatever, they were all teh same..
Then I lived through 8 years of Bush....
Actually now looking back, it all started with Reagan, but Bush.. capped them all, with his total disregard for the Country in his own pursuit of or fleeing from, his own demons ..or whatever the fuck moved him to destroy so many lives, ruin our economy, and kill our standing in the world....
But its not a matter of saying Obama is only marginally better.. He is Way better than anything on the right .... He did pass a healthcare bill, which NO ONE has been able to do since Roosevelt ! He needs a second term and we need him to have one...
Yes of course, keep pushing him towards more progressive policies..Yes, don't let up, demand more.. Push all the time, but don't lose sight of the overall picture !
I probably have more to say but for the moment.. I think thats it ...

Martina · 01-31-2012, 04:08 PM

‘Everyone step on his toes!’ Gingrich security harasses Ron Paul supporter

WINDERMERE, Fla.--Next time, Eddie Dillard won't wear flip-flops.

Dillard, a 29-year-old Ron Paul supporter from this suburb near Orlando, arrived to vote at his precinct at Winderemere Baptist Church early Tuesday morning. Pulling into the parking lot, Dillard noticed a man outside the polling place with a Gingrich sign. He decided to run home, slip into his "Ron Paul Rocks America" T-shirt, grab a "Ron Paul 2012" sign from his garage, and return to give his candidate some representation outside the precinct after he cast his vote.

Dillard found a quiet spot along a sidewalk lined with tiny American flags and held up his sign. Little did he know, Newt Gingrich had chosen that very spot to make his first Primary Day campaign stop.

When Gingrich's bus pulled up, Dillard stood silently holding his sign and watched the news-media horde swamp the candidate. Gingrich stepped down from the bus and made a beeline for Dillard. He stopped in front of Dillard and his sign and parked himself for a round of handshaking and pictures with voters. The placement couldn't have been worse. There was Gingrich, standing with his wife Callista at their first event of the day, and a giant Ron Paul sign floated inches from their crowns.

Noticing the awkward optics, Gingrich aides and security personnel swarmed Dillard, trying to intimidate him into moving. One of Gingrich's security agents stepped in front of him. When Dillard didn't budge, the agent lifted his heeled shoe over Dillard's bare foot and dug the back of it into his skin, twisting it side-to-side like he was stomping out a cigarette. Shocked, Dillard kept his ground and took a picture of the agent with his phone, which was quickly knocked out of his hand. Dillard slipped off his flip-flop to pick up the phone with his foot, and a Gingrich supporter kicked the sandal away.

"Don't kick me!" Dillard said to the man who knocked away his sandal. More members of Gingrich's security retinue approached, shoving their shoulders and chests in front of him.

"Just block him!" a Gingrich campaign aide said. "Everyone step on his toes!"

Gingrich supporters handed a "Newt 2012" yard sign up to the front to put in front of Dillard's Paul sign. The two signs, zipping back and forth inches from Gingrich's head, circled each other in the air like a fighter jets in a dogfight.

When the candidate finished taking pictures with voters, furious Gingrich aides grilled Dillard.

"If we did this to you, you guys would be furious," said an aide before stomping back toward the bus. "They have no class. No class."

As Gingrich pulled away, Dillard looked down at his foot. With the adrenaline pumping, he hadn't noticed the pain, but now it was starting to sink in. A bruise was forming, and there was a cut mark where the security agent had dug in his heel.

"That was really something," Dillard said afterwards. "My heart's racing. Not what I expected to happen today."

Gráinne · 02-01-2012, 10:55 AM

I hope this goes viral everywhere. Post it on your political sites:

Mitt Romney: "I'm not concerned about the very poor"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1246557.html

Talk about giving the opposition soundbites from here until the election!

AtLast · 02-01-2012, 12:26 PM

Anyone else catch the exchange with Rev Al and Gingrich's SuperPac head after FL results? About racial "coding?"

Thoughts?

01-31-2012, 03:56 AM	#1
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	because I come from white privilege (with or with out consent) I am required to ask myself if I (and anyone else including the press) hold President Obama to a different standard because he is not a white man...... Would the same columns be written about his failures as the focus or would the columns be about his successes. He has accomplished much.....great strides similar to the great junior god Bill Clinton. Why is the focus on what he has NOT done rather than what he HAS done. Bill in spite of cigars and blue dress stains came out smelling like a rose and probably would get elected today if he could run. In terms of policy, there is not the width of a single strand of silk difference between Bill and Barack. Yet the latte liberals all love Bill and talk shit about Barack failures rather than for his successes..... stinks of white privilege..... __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/ Last edited by Toughy; 01-31-2012 at 04:02 AM.

01-31-2012, 10:04 AM	#3
Cin Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: In My Head Posts: 2,815 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,333 Thanked 10,401 Times in 2,477 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Gingrich and Romney Want to Say Adios to Bilingual Ballots The GOP front-runners endorse a plan that could disenfranchise millions of voters—including their own. By Adam Serwer As Republican primary voters head to the polls in Florida on Tuesday, both GOP front-runners have endorsed a policy that would contradict existing law and could disenfranchise millions of voters across the country. During a recent debate, both Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney supported getting rid of bilingual ballots when the topic was brought up by the moderator. "I would have ballots in English," Gingrich said. "And I think you could have programs where virtually everybody would be able to read the ballots." Romney agreed. "I think Speaker Gingrich is right with regards to what he's described," he said. That wasn't much of a stretch for Gingrich, who once called Spanish "the language of living in a ghetto." Yet their glib demand for English-only ballots would require amending the Voting Rights Act and doing away with hard-won legal requirements that have existed for decades. It's a sharp turn away from the Bush administration, which despite a spotty civil rights record filed more ballot access cases on behalf of non-English speakers than any administration had before. "We used to have poll taxes, we used to have whites-only primaries, we used to not let women vote," says Myrna Perez, senior counsel with the Brennan Center's Democracy Program. "Policies that would make our ballots less accessible to Americans based on what language they speak would be at odds with that historical arc towards expanding the franchise." Bilingual ballots are no abstract issue in Florida, which has a sizeable population of Americans whose first languages are Spanish or Haitian Creole. "The Haitian population is a voting bloc, the Hispanic community is a voting bloc," says Carolyn Thompson, a Florida-based activist with the Advancement Project, a civil rights group. "They pay taxes, they've won the right to vote in their language." Under the 1975 revision of the Voting Rights Act, communities whose non-English speaking populations reach a certain level have to provide voting materials in alternate languages. There are 238 jurisdictions covered by the Voting Rights Act's language requirements. It's hard to tell how many voters would be impacted by the repeal of those provisions, but the census estimates that there are more than 19 million eligible voters who come from the communities the law is meant to serve. Ten counties in Florida are among them, four of which went Republican in the last presidential election. "Some of these ballot measures involve very complex legal language," Camila Gallardo of the Latino civil rights organization National Council of La Raza points out. "Some of the language is hard to understand even for fluent English speakers, let alone if your first language isn't English." Republicans have long had a complex relationship with Florida. It's the site of great conservative victories, like George W. Bush seizing the presidency in 2000 and Marco Rubio crushing his challengers in 2010's Senate race. But it's also the kind of place where moderates like Jeb Bush and Charlie Crist thrive, a cosmopolitan state that anti-immigrant ex-GOP congressman Tom Tancredo once compared to the Tower of Babel. That's why Gingrich followed up Monday's debate with an appearance on the Spanish-language station Univison in which he called Romney's draconian approach to curtailing illegal immigration an "Obama-level fantasy," and why Romney turned Gingrich's remarks about Spanish being "ghetto" into a campaign ad. In Florida, a Republican who comes off as anti-immigrant or anti-Hispanic could see their political ambitions cut short fast. It's a difficult balancing act for members of a party that is seen as increasingly hostile by Latino voters, who are becoming more influential in American elections. "They try to appeal to Latinos and Florida and during the general election, but everywhere else they're trying to be tough guys," says Dr. Gary Segura of the national polling firm Latino Decisions. "It's going to be very difficult for them to have it both ways." More than 1 out of 10 Republican primary voters is Latino in Florida, so it's possible that Romney and Gingrich's commitment to English primacy, if applied, could disenfranchise part of their own base in the state. Or they could just be banking on the possibility that their voters are more likely to be completely bilingual. "The Cuban population heavily concentrated in the Republican Party are bilingual, fluent, are likely to be able to hang with that," says Segura. "Some number of Republicans would be disenfranchised, but the largest number would be first-generation Puerto Rican Democrats." Changing federal law isn't easy of course, and the Voting Rights Act was renewed in 2006 for another 25 years. By the time it's up for consideration again, Republicans might have even less interest in ensuring that language minorities have equal access to the ballot box, even in Florida. "For a long time, Cubans were staunchly in the Republican column, although that demographic is really changing," says Gallardo. "[Today] you see a lot of young Hispanics registering with no party affiliation." http://motherjones.com/politics/2012...ingual-ballots __________________ The reason facts don’t change most people’s opinions is because most people don’t use facts to form their opinions. They use their opinions to form their “facts.” Neil Strauss

02-01-2012, 10:55 AM	#6
Gráinne Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Neither, nada, out of the box Preferred Pronoun?: My name always works Relationship Status: Happy whatever happens Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,866 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,119 Thanked 7,392 Times in 1,459 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I hope this goes viral everywhere. Post it on your political sites: Mitt Romney: "I'm not concerned about the very poor" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1246557.html Talk about giving the opposition soundbites from here until the election! __________________ The odds of going to the store for a loaf of bread and coming out with only a loaf of bread are three billion to one. ~Erma Bombeck

01-31-2012, 10:57 AM	#4
MsMerrick Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Feminist Femme.... Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single and Singular.... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New York City.... Posts: 277 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 855 Thanked 646 Times in 166 Posts Rep Power: 4638167	My thoughts... Yes of course, WP plays into everything, it just always does... but that's certainly not the only thing I like the President, I do not like a lot of things he has not done, or has been done.. BUT, overall, I still like the stuff he has done.. My expectations, and dare I say, everyone's expectations ran higher than ..well than I can ever remember, and i am born in 1950, so you do the math ! I look at some of the papers and covers, that came out when President Obama was elected, and damn, we really did pin everything on him ..! Everyone was disappointed, because..Well there really wasn't any way that we wouldn't have been. He is not the second coming of anything...The emotional toll has been deep. Enough said. Reality is, he isn't that bad.. and he is better than many tend to think, for whatever reason, there's a blind spot .. But as Al Sharpton famously said ( ok I am not quoting merely paraphrasing because I am too lazy to look it up ) ..Obama may not walk on water, but he's still the best swimmer we got ! I have been deeply angry and disappointed at times... BUT..when I hear people saying that there is no difference, and i have been hearing this too much lately, between President Obama and ..any of the candidate s on the Right.. I beg to differ.. No, I demand to differ STRONGLY ! There was a time I thought Republicans , Democrats, whatever, they were all teh same.. Then I lived through 8 years of Bush.... Actually now looking back, it all started with Reagan, but Bush.. capped them all, with his total disregard for the Country in his own pursuit of or fleeing from, his own demons ..or whatever the fuck moved him to destroy so many lives, ruin our economy, and kill our standing in the world.... But its not a matter of saying Obama is only marginally better.. He is Way better than anything on the right .... He did pass a healthcare bill, which NO ONE has been able to do since Roosevelt ! He needs a second term and we need him to have one... Yes of course, keep pushing him towards more progressive policies..Yes, don't let up, demand more.. Push all the time, but don't lose sight of the overall picture ! I probably have more to say but for the moment.. I think thats it ...

01-31-2012, 04:08 PM	#5
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,280 Times in 4,165 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	‘Everyone step on his toes!’ Gingrich security harasses Ron Paul supporter WINDERMERE, Fla.--Next time, Eddie Dillard won't wear flip-flops. Dillard, a 29-year-old Ron Paul supporter from this suburb near Orlando, arrived to vote at his precinct at Winderemere Baptist Church early Tuesday morning. Pulling into the parking lot, Dillard noticed a man outside the polling place with a Gingrich sign. He decided to run home, slip into his "Ron Paul Rocks America" T-shirt, grab a "Ron Paul 2012" sign from his garage, and return to give his candidate some representation outside the precinct after he cast his vote. Dillard found a quiet spot along a sidewalk lined with tiny American flags and held up his sign. Little did he know, Newt Gingrich had chosen that very spot to make his first Primary Day campaign stop. When Gingrich's bus pulled up, Dillard stood silently holding his sign and watched the news-media horde swamp the candidate. Gingrich stepped down from the bus and made a beeline for Dillard. He stopped in front of Dillard and his sign and parked himself for a round of handshaking and pictures with voters. The placement couldn't have been worse. There was Gingrich, standing with his wife Callista at their first event of the day, and a giant Ron Paul sign floated inches from their crowns. Noticing the awkward optics, Gingrich aides and security personnel swarmed Dillard, trying to intimidate him into moving. One of Gingrich's security agents stepped in front of him. When Dillard didn't budge, the agent lifted his heeled shoe over Dillard's bare foot and dug the back of it into his skin, twisting it side-to-side like he was stomping out a cigarette. Shocked, Dillard kept his ground and took a picture of the agent with his phone, which was quickly knocked out of his hand. Dillard slipped off his flip-flop to pick up the phone with his foot, and a Gingrich supporter kicked the sandal away. "Don't kick me!" Dillard said to the man who knocked away his sandal. More members of Gingrich's security retinue approached, shoving their shoulders and chests in front of him. "Just block him!" a Gingrich campaign aide said. "Everyone step on his toes!" Gingrich supporters handed a "Newt 2012" yard sign up to the front to put in front of Dillard's Paul sign. The two signs, zipping back and forth inches from Gingrich's head, circled each other in the air like a fighter jets in a dogfight. When the candidate finished taking pictures with voters, furious Gingrich aides grilled Dillard. "If we did this to you, you guys would be furious," said an aide before stomping back toward the bus. "They have no class. No class." As Gingrich pulled away, Dillard looked down at his foot. With the adrenaline pumping, he hadn't noticed the pain, but now it was starting to sink in. A bruise was forming, and there was a cut mark where the security agent had dug in his heel. "That was really something," Dillard said afterwards. "My heart's racing. Not what I expected to happen today."

02-01-2012, 12:26 PM	#7
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	Anyone else catch the exchange with Rev Al and Gingrich's SuperPac head after FL results? About racial "coding?" Thoughts?