Is Marriage for you? - Page 2

MsTinkerbelly · 02-09-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson

Tink, thank you for keeping us posted on much of the same sex marriage news. I read it, always.

I know it has been argued that the LGBTQ Community has spent far too many resources on this particular human rights issue. I disagree with that it is too much. Yes, much of the collective resources are focused on same sex marriage and I believe this is also opening doors in general for the entire gambit of human rights for LGBTQ.

If we don't strike in the places that make them uncomfortable, that make them feel, then we can go back to being ignored and discriminated against...we have tried to get the same basic human rights as non queers for years, and what has that gotten us? IN most states we can lose our jobs, lose our homes, lose our KIDS!!! Fuck that! If we can't get our Civil rights by being nice, then we need to get in their faces where it makes them feel.

My own personal situation is that I now can get legally married in the USA because I have transitioned and legally I am now male. I consider this to be a clear cut example of hypocrisy. I have known all of my life I am a queer which is primarily expressed as masculine and born into a female body. Why does undergoing surgery, taking hormones, acquiring the "proper and needed documents" to transition change how the law now sees me? I am still the same on the inside. I still put my pants on one leg at a time. My resume is the same, my passions and hopes, unchanged.

I almost didn't marry my Kasey for some of the same reasons...if we can't all get married, then I shouldn't get married. BUT...if no one gets married then they think we don't want it after all!! they have to see that my marriage in no way impacts their marriage for minds to be changed.

Now I can get married legally, and I know on some level I hedge because it just does not seem right, that I can get married while others in my community cannot. This really annoys me. I am sure at some point I will get married for the first time in my life, and I hope it will be the last.

P.S. I know, I am such a romantic.

This! Me in Blue

CABud · 02-09-2012, 03:37 PM

You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

aishah · 02-09-2012, 03:56 PM

there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment).

i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us.

as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me.

on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way.

IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships.

that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties).

aishah · 02-09-2012, 04:11 PM

another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.

princessbelle · 02-09-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CABud

You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.

MysticOceansFL · 02-09-2012, 04:50 PM

When the right femme comes along. But no sooner!

Mr Nice Guy · 02-09-2012, 05:11 PM

If I met the right girl. Then maybe.

CABud · 02-09-2012, 05:22 PM

Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.

*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.

MsTinkerbelly · 02-09-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I respectful disagree. I understand how you may feel that way and others may. But, at least in my situation, and from my *me* space, it was the same feeling of marriage whether i had the certificate or i didn't. The only differences was getting all the legal stuff in order and missing out on company plan health insurance. It is more of an effort to get the legal stuff in order, but it can be done. For example, a Medical Power of Attorney. Whereas if you are married it automatically defaults to your spouse. But, a lot of these things can all be accomplished with the right lawyer. Again i say "almost all".

There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money.

IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me.

A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment.

With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference.

You are right when you say it is the commitment that matters..."most" people that are "married" whether legally by the State, or in another way, put that commitment behind their "vows". Maybe I would have felt the same with my Kasey if we had gone a different route...something to ponder!

princessbelle · 02-09-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CABud

Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.

*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*.

I hear you. We all have our own journeys for sure. I am glad that paper made a difference for you and yours. We all deserve that opportunity if we so desire for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

You are right when you say it is the commitment that matters..."most" people that are "married" whether legally by the State, or in another way, put that commitment behind their "vows". Maybe I would have felt the same with my Kasey if we had gone a different route...something to ponder!

Everyone is different. I just know for my two marriages, one legal and one was not, there was no difference in how i "felt" meaning felt "married". Nothing is gonna work, legal or otherwise, if the relationship goes south. That little piece of 10cent paper isn't gonna make it all better...IMO. Still hoping we have the right to have it though someday, when and if we (collective we) ever want it.

Great thread btw.

Sassy · 02-09-2012, 05:57 PM

My experiences have been dismal.

These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know.

Quintease · 02-09-2012, 06:03 PM

My husband and I got engaged after only 3 months together, so clearly marriage is for me

I can only hope that if we ever separate, that I'll remember how happy I was the day we said our vows.

MsTinkerbelly · 02-09-2012, 07:23 PM

I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post.

I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other.

I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense?

Kobi · 02-09-2012, 08:05 PM

It still boggles my mind to know in my lifetime, homosexuality has grown from illegal/criminal/mental illness to legal gay marriage.

I remember how thrilled I was when the company I worked for instituted same sex benefits. I remember how dismayed I was when gay marriage became legal in this state and same sex benefits required putting a ring on it.

I am a traditionalist. Marriage and committment ceremonies/civil unions are not the same to me. I can be committed yet have no desire to marry. I suspect the person who actually brings me to the point of entertaining marriage would be one heck of a person.

Glenn · 02-09-2012, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=Sassy;523742]

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

^^^^
THIS!

clay · 02-09-2012, 08:36 PM

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

Gemme · 02-09-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

I don't think that I would. I've been married twice already. On one hand, you have the whole 'three times is the charm' mentality. On the other is that a piece of paper doesn't change anything. If it's broke to begin with, marriage won't fix it.

I no longer have the attachment to the fantasy associated with weddings and all the entrapments that come with it. I think, for me, the fantasy was part of the initial attraction to marriage.

In the end, though, it's nothing more than dedication and hard work dressed up in tulle and silk. I can do dedication and hard work without the fancy bits just fine.

DapperButch · 02-09-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy

My experiences have been dismal. These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know.

Hey, no worries. I feel the exact same way and I haven't even had any marriages and/or combining of finances experiences, good or bad.

Martina · 02-09-2012, 09:33 PM

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

Glenn · 02-09-2012, 09:50 PM

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

View Poll Results: What is your ststus?
I am unmarried in my State or Country	103	58.52%
I am married in my State or Country	27	15.34%
I have had an alternate joining which is not legally marriage	18	10.23%
I wouldn't get married if they paid me!	28	15.91%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

02-09-2012, 04:50 PM	#26
MysticOceansFL Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch, Preferred Pronoun?: People call me by my nic name. Relationship Status: Not Single, Not Desperate. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 3,833 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,645 Thanked 4,033 Times in 1,720 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	When the right femme comes along. But no sooner! __________________ Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservation. It is said, " Some lives are linked across time..... Connected by an ancient calling that echoes through the ages "......

02-09-2012, 06:03 PM	#32
Quintease Member How Do You Identify?: Rainbow femme Preferred Pronoun?: princess Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 514 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 508 Thanked 1,817 Times in 417 Posts Rep Power: 10560327	My husband and I got engaged after only 3 months together, so clearly marriage is for me I can only hope that if we ever separate, that I'll remember how happy I was the day we said our vows. __________________ It is not worth an intelligent person's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

02-09-2012, 08:05 PM	#34
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,636 Times in 7,642 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	It still boggles my mind to know in my lifetime, homosexuality has grown from illegal/criminal/mental illness to legal gay marriage. I remember how thrilled I was when the company I worked for instituted same sex benefits. I remember how dismayed I was when gay marriage became legal in this state and same sex benefits required putting a ring on it. I am a traditionalist. Marriage and committment ceremonies/civil unions are not the same to me. I can be committed yet have no desire to marry. I suspect the person who actually brings me to the point of entertaining marriage would be one heck of a person. __________________

02-09-2012, 08:36 PM	#36
clay Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch (Silver Fox) Dom Daddi Preferred Pronoun?: 50 Shades of Clay Darker & Deeper Relationship Status: married to my forever Join Date: May 2011 Location: salt air & sandy beaches Posts: 13,136 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 97,020 Thanked 31,675 Times in 7,748 Posts Rep Power: 21474864	I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!! Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized! Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal". Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another! MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo __________________ To find someone who will love you for no reason, and to shower that person with reasons, that is the ultimate happiness. ~Robert Brault

02-09-2012, 03:37 PM	#22
CABud Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Temporary time-out for identity verification. Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 3 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2 Thanked 21 Times in 3 Posts Rep Power: 0	You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.

02-09-2012, 03:56 PM	#23
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,442 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment). i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us. as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me. on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way. IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships. that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties).

02-09-2012, 04:11 PM	#24
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,442 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.

02-09-2012, 05:11 PM	#27
Mr Nice Guy Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Kind, sweet, loving, romantic and a rare Butch. :) Relationship Status: I don't drive a Uhaul. :) Join Date: May 2011 Location: Another New Englander Posts: 1,768 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,035 Thanked 4,894 Times in 1,307 Posts Rep Power: 0	If I met the right girl. Then maybe.

02-09-2012, 05:57 PM	#31
Sassy Member How Do You Identify?: Female Relationship Status: Together Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: In the sunshine Posts: 598 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 815 Thanked 1,929 Times in 460 Posts Rep Power: 19641164	My experiences have been dismal. These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now. Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ... Perhaps. After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup. Not very romantic, I know.

02-09-2012, 07:23 PM	#33
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post. I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other. I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense?

02-09-2012, 08:33 PM	#35
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Dear ol butch bones. Preferred Pronoun?: Old G Relationship Status: Too old to play. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: :rolleyes: Posts: 1,547 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,601 Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	[QUOTE=Sassy;523742] After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup. ^^^^ THIS!

02-09-2012, 09:33 PM	#39
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,286 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do. Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

02-09-2012, 09:50 PM	#40
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Dear ol butch bones. Preferred Pronoun?: Old G Relationship Status: Too old to play. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: :rolleyes: Posts: 1,547 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,601 Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.