animal rescuers - resources - support

[violaine]

I have a couple of questions.

What was her answer when asked about "counseling" owners who called to surrender their pets? Is there any type of "counsel" given into other options verses total surrender?

She said that when a person wants to surrender an animal, they are asked to fill out a card with any info that they have on the pet. She said that they receive both strays and family pets as surrenders CHACO assistant- said that they will try to "work with" the owner if they are surrendering a pet, such as giving the owner a bag of dog food (if surrender is for a financial reason). It was clear that there is no direct or written procedure for "counseling" owners who are surrendering an animal, so I'm guessing the person at the front desk can chose to counsel an owner if he/she wants. Owners are not directly told that the animal will have little chance for making it out of the shelter and into a home, but it does list in the fine print of the form the owner fills out that the animal could be euthanized.

I have also been thinking of how to request info on what percentage of animals taken in are of a "law enforcement" variety verses "standard shelter" type intake.

she said- I understand your question, and I believe this is outlined for the most part in the 2009 Animal Control Report. I asked CHACO what the "city in" figure meant and she said that was for animals that came in from the X Animal Control Officer (who apparently isn't affiliated with AC/shelter and works directly for the town of X) or its from animals being dropped off by public officials who are on duty such as police officiers. It sounded like the Commissioners are making them keep better bookkeeping on where the animals are coming from, why they are being euthanized, etc.


What was her response to the questions about animals "born in" the shelter?

CHACO said- that they don't have a vet on staff so if an animal comes in pregnant, then there is no way for the shelter to abort the pregnacy so they end up isolating the mother to let her birth her puppies/kittens. This was the first instance that I've heard of where a shelter doesn't have any way to abort a pregnacy. I hate to be insensitive, but it would probably cost the county less to abort the pregnacy then allow the mother to have the babies, have to care for the babies, and then the babies meet an almost certain death via euthanasia.


What was the answer to the # to reach their "at-capacity" and runs being used for storage?

Neither CHACO or assistant had any idea what the capacity of the shelter was...

they only said - that they had 30 runs. She did admit to the "Whelping kennel" being used for storage and the outside runs being used for storage or not being used at all. She said that most people who go to the shelter and see a section of the shelter blocked off think that part of the shelter isn't being used when in fact, that part of the shelter is used for the "expecting or birthing mothers area".

How did she respond when asked if she wanted a relationship with the Humane Society?

This was one of the only questions that I didn't get to ask because X Commissioner cut the meeting off right before I got to that question. From what I could gather, CHACO has had problems with HS in the past but was open to working with HS in the future, so I would say she's willing.


I think that there were really great steps forward in the meeting to have a relationship and open disclosure that is long overdue. Let's try to keep the momentum moving forward!!!

[IttyBittyFem]

Originally Posted by violaine

I have a couple of questions.

What was her answer when asked about "counseling" owners who called to surrender their pets? Is there any type of "counsel" given into other options verses total surrender?

She said that when a person wants to surrender an animal, they are asked to fill out a card with any info that they have on the pet. She said that they receive both strays and family pets as surrenders CHACO assistant- said that they will try to "work with" the owner if they are surrendering a pet, such as giving the owner a bag of dog food (if surrender is for a financial reason). It was clear that there is no direct or written procedure for "counseling" owners who are surrendering an animal, so I'm guessing the person at the front desk can chose to counsel an owner if he/she wants. Owners are not directly told that the animal will have little chance for making it out of the shelter and into a home, but it does list in the fine print of the form the owner fills out that the animal could be euthanized.

I'd like to address just one part of your post Violaine. In our "Off List" conversation, I mentioned I've been a volunteer for NJ Boxer Rescue for over 20 years. During this period of time, I've learned so much through each individual case.

From my experience, attempting to counsel anyone into keeping their pet when they've already come to the decision to give them up. The one thing that really has a LARGE red flag, for me anyway, is the fact any owner would bring their pet to a "Kill" facility, rather than a shelter that has a "No Kill" Policy. Then you have the factor that they obviously didn't make an attempt to place their pet on their own, whether it be through word of mouth, Ad's, etc. I could go on and on with numerous signs the Owner not only wants to get rid of their pet, as well as lack of effort to do what's best for the animal. However, I personally do not want to make any attempt to convince the owner into keeping the pet. I've seen it done and in almost every single case, the pet eventually ends up back at the original (or other) Shelter within a 6 month period of time.

If the animal is a purebred, every single breed has their own Rescue Organization. If the animal is not a purebred, there are tons of Rescue Organizations that handle those type of cases.

If the owner doesn't want to make the effort to seek out any of these Rescue Groups, then at least find a facility that has a "No Kill" Policy.
So basically, what I'm saying is, any person that has already made up their minds to be rid of their burden (harsh words however, it's a harsh situation) should not be counseled into keeping their pets. Allow the animal to have a second chance in life by finding them a home where they'll be loved and cared for, rather than feeling the vibe, 'I don't want you'. Animals have the ability to sense a human's feelings. Do we really want them to stay with people that clearly have no desire to keep their pet? NOT me. I'd rather see the animal go to a Foster Home, evaluated while at the Foster and matched up with a home that will love their new addition to their family.

One last thing - this is clearly my own personal opinion, derived from years of experience with Boxer Rescue. I certainly welcome anyone that have different experiences and/or different opinions to jump right in and let us see this from a different perspective.

[Kimbo]

Itty, I don't completely agree with you and this is why. When was the last time you called a purebred rescue group or any rescue group and they actually were accepting an animal, openings/foster homes are far and few inbetween. Help, well, there are just not enough of us to help all the animals that need help. I had to accept that long ago.

Also, in counseling a family you can find out if there is something you could do to help them, say the animal was having a simple behaviour problem? What if leading the family to a resource to help with the issue then will allow them to keep the animal. Many animals get dumped at the shelter because of medical issues some simple to treat, others, well we all know what vet's cost!

And very few cities have no kill shelters, sadly, Seattle does not. With over 6 million animals euthanized a year...well where do we put them all? Who feeds them? It's just not a reality. What is reality is that people need to slowdown on the breeding, and more people need to be involved in their neighborhoods.

[Diavolo]

The problem is we want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are breeders and there are breeders. We had a situation just a couple of weeks ago where a guy had a litter of puppies. One had a broken leg and he acted as if he hadn't even seen it broken. It was sticking straight out. We got the puppy. A week later a volunteer bought all of the puppies. When we went to get the puppies we talked him out of both bitches. When those puppies go to homes from the rescue they'll have chips, tattoos and contracts that they come back to the rescue if ever they can't stay in their "forever" home. He is not a breeder. He's a dumb ass that let his two dogs fuck.

A real breeder has contracts that they fulfill. Their buyers must complete local training courses for their dogs. They must have proper vet care. Their puppies are chipped and in the event they come into a shelter, the breeder wants them back and takes them back. No questions asked. A real breeder's dogs don't end up in shelters. A real breeder health tests and does specific planned breedings to dogs of a certain quality that will enhance the breed. Both parents NEVER live on site. If there were only real breeders out there, shelters and rescues would merrily go out of business.

We're very focused on sterilization and breed hate, but if the public perception of where to get a dog was educated by the dog clubs, there wouldn't be a problem.

Quietly the Doberman community is happy that CJ did not win the Westminster, even though we all think she was robbed. We all know that every Tom, Dick and Harry would want to start breeding Dobermans and that would be bad for the breed. I look at all of the trainwreck dogs we get through here and then I look at CJ. And we know that those clowns don't get what makes her so majestic. She's one of the most winning dogs in the country and I'm glad she's a bitch. At least there won't been viles of frozen giz to propagate. That might be a good thing.

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by Diavolo

The problem is we want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are breeders and there are breeders. We had a situation just a couple of weeks ago where a guy had a litter of puppies. One had a broken leg and he acted as if he hadn't even seen it broken. It was sticking straight out. We got the puppy. A week later a volunteer bought all of the puppies. When we went to get the puppies we talked him out of both bitches. When those puppies go to homes from the rescue they'll have chips, tattoos and contracts that they come back to the rescue if ever they can't stay in their "forever" home. He is not a breeder. He's a dumb ass that let his two dogs fuck.

A real breeder has contracts that they fulfill. Their buyers must complete local training courses for their dogs. They must have proper vet care. Their puppies are chipped and in the event they come into a shelter, the breeder wants them back and takes them back. No questions asked. A real breeder's dogs don't end up in shelters. A real breeder health tests and does specific planned breedings to dogs of a certain quality that will enhance the breed. Both parents NEVER live on site. If there were only real breeders out there, shelters and rescues would merrily go out of business.

We're very focused on sterilization and breed hate, but if the public perception of where to get a dog was educated by the dog clubs, there wouldn't be a problem.

Quietly the Doberman community is happy that CJ did not win the Westminster, even though we all think she was robbed. We all know that every Tom, Dick and Harry would want to start breeding Dobermans and that would be bad for the breed. I look at all of the trainwreck dogs we get through here and then I look at CJ. And we know that those clowns don't get what makes her so majestic. She's one of the most winning dogs in the country and I'm glad she's a bitch. At least there won't been viles of frozen giz to propagate. That might be a good thing.

Diavolo--I agree with you with the exception of what I have bolded. The biggest "dog club" is the AKC. They are the biggest promoters of irresponsible breeding just by the fact that they have very little in place to confirm those animals that they paper. To me the AKC has degraded the true responsible breeder.

[Diavolo]

Originally Posted by Kimbo

Diavolo--I agree with you with the exception of what I have bolded. The biggest "dog club" is the AKC. They are the biggest promoters of irresponsible breeding just by the fact that they have very little in place to confirm those animals that they paper. To me the AKC has degraded the true responsible breeder.

We're saying the same thing, I just didn't make myself clear.

The AKC is just a registration service. What I meant is that the breed clubs, like the National version of the Boxer club, the Doberman club, the Chihuahua club, Aussie whatever, need to not only promote but require responsible breeding and then push their agenda publicly. That is, don't buy dogs that haven't been health tested, don't get an Aussie where one of the parents hasn't been finished either in the ring or in the field, don't buy a dog from a guy who has both parents on site. Right now everybody thinks AKC papers is the be all end all. Breed clubs need to advance a more comprehensive message. For the sake of the dogs they need to lead and right now they aren't.

I see more Dobermans out there that barely look like Dobermans except for the markings. The latest soul I transported, who also overnighted here had a ridiculously short snout, was undersized and had a hinky temperment. I'm sure her parents weren't health tested and the propensity for this poor little soul to develop or carry DCM, Wobblers, bum hips or any of the other plethora of health issues that plague the breed are huge. I have a friend who has finished a bunch of dogs but hasn't bred because he's been doing the research to breed out the health issues that plague the breed. That's what breeding dogs is all about. Betterment of the breed. And that's the message that the dog clubs (and by dog club I mean breed club) have to do.

And don't misunderstand me. I have two trainwreck rescues here. Rita is undersized, snipe nosed and kind of not right in the head. The only time that dog was at peace was after she killed a rat. Bubba has IBD and has classic Doberman OCD. His toes curl some kind of funky, his gait is not the kind of gay it's supposed to be and he blew his coat 18 months ago and all of the salmon oil in the world ain't bringing it back. And they both adore me and I would live in my truck before I would give them up.

[violaine]

itty, hallo

thank you for contributing to the portion of the animal control investigation addressing OS [owner surrendered pets]. the shelter staff do not have discussions/work with/counsel humans who entrust animals with staff of the AC /shelter.

that response, and so many others provided to us by the AC/shelter Chief Officer/Assistant, just astounded us during this investigation into multiple and serious issues- one of which is witnessed inappropriate treatment of animals at the AC/ shelter .

[violaine]

[QUOTE=Diavolo;55011]We're saying the same thing, I just didn't make myself clear.

The AKC is just a registration service. What I meant is that the breed clubs, like the National version of the Boxer club, the Doberman club, the Chihuahua club, Aussie whatever, need to not only promote but require responsible breeding and then push their agenda publicly. That is, don't buy dogs that haven't been health tested, don't get an Aussie where one of the parents hasn't been finished either in the ring or in the field, don't buy a dog from a guy who has both parents on site. Right now everybody thinks AKC papers is the be all end all. Breed clubs need to advance a more comprehensive message. For the sake of the dogs they need to lead and right now they aren't.

I see more Dobermans out there that barely look like Dobermans except for the markings. The latest soul I transported, who also overnighted here had a ridiculously short snout, was undersized and had a hinky temperment. I'm sure her parents weren't health tested and the propensity for this poor little soul to develop or carry DCM, Wobblers, bum hips or any of the other plethora of health issues that plague the breed are huge. I have a friend who has finished a bunch of dogs but hasn't bred because he's been doing the research to breed out the health issues that plague the breed. That's what breeding dogs is all about. Betterment of the breed. And that's the message that the dog clubs (and by dog club I mean breed club) have to do.

And don't misunderstand me. I have two trainwreck rescues here. Rita is undersized, snipe nosed and kind of not right in the head. The only time that dog was at peace was after she killed a rat. Bubba has IBD and has classic Doberman OCD. His toes curl some kind of funky, his gait is not the kind of gay it's supposed to be and he blew his coat 18 months ago and all of the salmon oil in the world ain't bringing it back. And they both adore me and I would live in my truck before I would give them up.

diavolo - hi

i found this group while visiting the FB page of a wonder dobe rescue i worked with a while back helping DAZ. [lean on me dobe rescue = stellar group of humans! LOMDR is on the FB page below].

http://www.facebook.com/SaveDobermans?ref=mf