What every Femme should know...

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I can see why Jist might be a little confused by the reaction and how to interpret it. Julie's clarification did help shed some insight on this.

I am a little confused myself and trust someone can help me out.

The original title: "what every Femme should know", can be seen as a blanket(generalized) statement that might ruffle feathers.

"Being Femme means you honor and respect your Femme Sisters." and "Being a Femme's Femme is more important than any Butch on this planet." also appear to be blanket (generalized) statements yet they dont seem to be as much of an issue.

So, I am confused as to what exactly is it about blanket (generalizations)statements that is problematic?

Is it when the id of the OP may differ from from the id about whom the actual post is about that makes it problematic i.e. if a Femme posted it, it might not be quite as troublesome. But, a non Femme posting it makes it more indicative of <misogyny, stereotyping, whatever other terms work>.

Is it the actual content where one might be seen as disempowering while another is seen as empowering? If it is, then isnt this a dual standard? If it isnt, shouldnt both types of generalizations be addressed as issues?

Is it popular opinion? By this I mean, if we agree with what is said, does it make it ok as opposed to when we dont agree with it?

Is it a combination? Or maybe something I am not even thinking of at the moment?

I thought I understood it. Now I am not so sure.

Kobi,

I would like to answer your questions based on my perspective.

As we know, the title of any subject can hold as great a bearing as the actual content. Be it a post here on the planet, a magazine article or the title of a poem.

When I read, "What every Femme should know." My automatic response is to read what perhaps I am missing as a Femme. Hmmm, perhaps I have not learned something in my 50 years of life and my 33 years of being an identified Femme (though I have had some lapses for personal reasons).

I do know this from a personal standpoint. In my younger years, I thought I needed to be adored and worshiped by my partner to have any value. I had long hair, just so my partner could sweep the hair in front of my eyes and would see me as more feminine. When they spent money on me, I felt loved. I wanted to hear how lucky they were, because honestly... I did not have the value within myself to believe it on my own. I wanted to be told that I was beautiful and sexy, because I did not feel this inside. It gave me validation as a Femme.

When I cut off all my hair... I was challenged. Are you really a Femme? You and I have spoken on the phone Kobi. You have heard my voice Kobi and know that I have an extremely deep voice. Not a voice of a girl. I am often mistaken for a Sir. I have heard, are you really a Femme. Years ago, this would have shamed me. These are my issues... Not the issues of any other person that I am speaking about. When I lost (partial) my breast - I lost a sense of my femininity. I felt like I was not Feminine enough to wear the clothes that made me sexy at one time. What a Femme should know... For me. None of the above matters. If I can say out loud here, what other Femme's might be feeling, similar to what I have felt in the past. Then that is a good thing. I am a Femme. I have the knowledge about being a Femme that a butch just does not have. This is not to say, I have the knowledge what all Femme's should feel. Feelings are personal.

Regardless if the OP identifies as Male Identified, Heterosexual, Female or anything else which might fall in between, matters not to me. I responded based on the Title and then of course on the content.

I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. And in being entitled to our opinions, we are "all," welcome to post them. I do not believe anybody attacked the OP. Strong and beautiful self empowered Femme's came in here, and gave their own rendition.

If a Femme came in here and posted the same content. My response and reaction would be the same. I would have come in and posted it. If a Femme says to me. You know Julie, if you were just a little bit more domestic (a lot actually) and cooked and cleaned for your butch... You might be able to hold on to one long enough. True that! But the fact of the matter... I am not domestic and I certainly am not going to change the character of my being to keep a butch. Some might. And some garner pleasure for the acts of domestication. I do not. Regardless if it makes my Butch feel love and adored. I am not doing it. Anymore than I want my Butch to do something for me that does not garner them pleasure.

What every Butch should know!

What should every Butch know?
Simple - Do not tell me how I am supposed to feel.
Just as I would NEVER tell you how you are supposed to feel.

Honoring my sisters is huge for me. For me. I know they have my back. I know I have their backs. I know I would go to the depths of the world for some of these sisters of mine. I know they would do the same for me. I do hope Butches have similar relationships with their Butch Sisters/Brothers.

Julie

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Julie

Kobi,

I would like to answer your questions based on my perspective.

As we know, the title of any subject can hold as great a bearing as the actual content. Be it a post here on the planet, a magazine article or the title of a poem.

When I read, "What every Femme should know." My automatic response is to read what perhaps I am missing as a Femme. Hmmm, perhaps I have not learned something in my 50 years of life and my 33 years of being an identified Femme (though I have had some lapses for personal reasons).

I do know this from a personal standpoint. In my younger years, I thought I needed to be adored and worshiped by my partner to have any value. I had long hair, just so my partner could sweet the hair in front of my eyes and would see me as more feminine. When they spent money on me, I felt loved. I wanted to hear how lucky they were, because honestly... I did not have the value within myself to believe it on my own. I wanted to be told that I was beautiful and sexy, because I did not feel this inside. It gave me validation as a Femme.

When I cut off all my hair... I was challenged. Are you really a Femme? You and I have spoken on the phone Kobi. You have heard my voice Kobi and know that I have an extremely deep voice. Not a voice of a girl. I am often mistaken for a Sir. I have heard, are you really a Femme. Years ago, this would have shamed me. These are my issues... Not the issues of any other person that I am speaking about. When I lost (partial) my breast - I lost a sense of my femininity. I felt like I was not Feminine enough to wear the clothes that made me sexy at one time. What a Femme should know... For me. None of the above matters. If I can say out loud here, what other Femme's might be feeling, similar to what I have felt in the past. Then that is a good thing. I am a Femme. I have the knowledge about being a Femme that a butch just does not have. This is not to say, I have the knowledge what all Femme's should feel. Feelings are personal.

Regardless if the OP identifies as Male Identified, Heterosexual, Female or anything else which might fall in between, matters not to me. I responded based on the Title and then of course on the content.

I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. And in being entitled to our opinions, we are "all," welcome to post them. I do not believe anybody attacked the OP. Strong and beautiful self empowered Femme's came in here, and gave their own rendition.

If a Femme came in here and posted the same content. My response and reaction would be the same. I would have come in and posted it. If a Femme says to me. You know Julie, if you were just a little bit more domestic (a lot actually) and cooked and cleaned for your butch... You might be able to hold on to one long enough. True that! But the fact of the matter... I am not domestic and I certainly am not going to change the character of my being to keep a butch. Some might. And some garner pleasure for the acts of domestication. I do not. Regardless if it makes my Butch feel love and adored. I am not doing it. Anymore than I want my Butch to do something for me that does not garner them pleasure.

What every Butch should know!

What should every Butch know?
Simple - Do not tell me how I am supposed to feel.
Just as I would NEVER tell you how you are supposed to feel.

Honoring my sisters is huge for me. For me. I know they have my back. I know I have their backs. I know I would go to the depths of the world for some of these sisters of mine. I know they would do the same for me. I do hope Butches have similar relationships with their Butch Sisters/Brothers.

Julie

Julie, thank you for answering. I think I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure it solves my confusion. Let me try it this way:

You wrote..."Being a Femme's Femme is more important than any Butch on this planet."

To me, this says, in order to be a Femme's Femme all Femmes are require to believe the sisterhood is more important than any Butch/partner/spouse. It sounds to be as a general statement alerting Femme's as to expected/required behavior of being a Femme's Femme. Is that different from just being a Femme?

Now this might not be what you meant. It might just be how I interpreted it.

Then you said:

"What should every Butch know?
Simple - Do not tell me how I am supposed to feel.
Just as I would NEVER tell you how you are supposed to feel."

And, now I am confused because the first statement, to me, indicated you were saying this is how a Femme was supposed to feel/believe/act in order to be a Femme's Femme.

And then you are saying we shouldnt ever tell someone else how to feel.

Are you clarifying what you meant to say initially i.e. this is just your take on it? Or are these 2 different standards? Or, have I now totally confused myself even more?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Julie, thank you for answering. I think I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure it solves my confusion. Let me try it this way:

You wrote..."Being a Femme's Femme is more important than any Butch on this planet."

To me, this says, in order to be a Femme's Femme all Femmes are require to believe the sisterhood is more important than any Butch/partner/spouse. It sounds to be as a general statement alerting Femme's as to expected/required behavior of being a Femme's Femme. Is that different from just being a Femme?

Now this might not be what you meant. It might just be how I interpreted it.

Then you said:

"What should every Butch know?
Simple - Do not tell me how I am supposed to feel.
Just as I would NEVER tell you how you are supposed to feel."

And, now I am confused because the first statement, to me, indicated you were saying this is how a Femme was supposed to feel/believe/act in order to be a Femme's Femme.

And then you are saying we shouldnt ever tell someone else how to feel.

Are you clarifying what you meant to say initially i.e. this is just your take on it? Or are these 2 different standards? Or, have I now totally confused myself even more?

Kobi,

I think you are reading more into it than I intended.

I do not place Femme's higher on my love list than I place my partner who is Butch. I love my Femme sisters differently. My relationship with my Femme Sisters is different than my relationship with my partner and it is different than my relationships with Butches or Trans Guys for that matter.

Let's use this as an example (Femme's Femme) and why my Femme Sisters and that Sisterhood is more important. I am not saying that I would be okay with a Femme Sister if they did something hurtful and unkind. I would call them out and perhaps I would question my friendship with them.

Two Femme (Femme A and Femme B) friends are at a party. Femme (A) has made it known she has this crush on this Butch. All of her friends know this and the two of them have been communicating and slowly developing. While Femme A and Femme B are not great friends, they are social at times and are friendly. Femme B gets a look at said Butch and slowly makes her move. Femme B has the knowledge that Femme A is developing this relationship. Femme B does not care. Femme B has decided at all costs to move in and make her play.

A Femme's Femme would not do this. A Femme's Femme would respect Femme A and step back.

Another Example.

Femme A knows that Femme B and Butch are having relationship issues. She consoles and acts as a confidant to Femme B. Femme B cries in the ear of Femme A. Femme B is heartbroken when the relationship ends and in the process has shared intimate details with Femme A.

Femme A makes her move. She then slides in and friends the Butch. They start developing a relationship and not only has Femme B lost her partner, she has been manipulated and hurt by her friend Femme A.

A Femme's Femme would never ever ever do this.

My reference to what every butch should know, was a tad sarcastic. Perhaps why it appeared as a double standard and confusing. I would never assume to know what anybody should know. I only have my experiences. The only thing that I would ever possibly say that a Butch should know - Show your Femme respect. But I would say this to a Femme as well. Just be respectful, but hopefully everybody already knows this.

That is not to say, people should not date who they want and find love. But this is a tough one. Where do you draw the line?

Example:
I have shared many intimate details about my relationship with some of my Femme Sisters. My partner knows I share these things. Intimate details which have helped me process aspects of my relationship. DJ and I break up. My dear dear Femme Sister decides it is okay to pursue my ex without talking to me. Talk to me FIRST! But for god sake, give me time to heal.

I have fixed up friends with two of my exes. I thought... WOW, these two would make a great match. Different than the above example. I had a friend tell me years later, she ran into an ex of mine. How would I feel if they pursued something. I thought it great. After an ex and I broke up, and the wounds were still painful for me. A Femme I know called me and asked if I would put in a good word for her. Put in a good word? Are you kidding me? Not a Femme's Femme.

Make more sense?

Julie

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Julie

Kobi,

I think you are reading more into it than I intended.

I do not place Femme's higher on my love list than I place my partner who is Butch. I love my Femme sisters differently. My relationship with my Femme Sisters is different than my relationship with my partner and it is different than my relationships with Butches or Trans Guys for that matter.

Let's use this as an example (Femme's Femme) and why my Femme Sisters and that Sisterhood is more important. I am not saying that I would be okay with a Femme Sister if they did something hurtful and unkind. I would call them out and perhaps I would question my friendship with them.

Two Femme (Femme A and Femme B) friends are at a party. Femme (A) has made it known she has this crush on this Butch. All of her friends know this and the two of them have been communicating and slowly developing. While Femme A and Femme B are not great friends, they are social at times and are friendly. Femme B gets a look at said Butch and slowly makes her move. Femme B has the knowledge that Femme A is developing this relationship. Femme B does not care. Femme B has decided at all costs to move in and make her play.

A Femme's Femme would not do this. A Femme's Femme would respect Femme A and step back.

Another Example.

Femme A knows that Femme B and Butch are having relationship issues. She consoles and acts as a confidant to Femme B. Femme B cries in the ear of Femme A. Femme B is heartbroken when the relationship ends and in the process has shared intimate details with Femme A.

Femme A makes her move. She then slides in and friends the Butch. They start developing a relationship and not only has Femme B lost her partner, she has been manipulated and hurt by her friend Femme A.

A Femme's Femme would never ever ever do this.

My reference to what every butch should know, was a tad sarcastic. Perhaps why it appeared as a double standard and confusing. I would never assume to know what anybody should know. I only have my experiences. The only thing that I would ever possibly say that a Butch should know - Show your Femme respect. But I would say this to a Femme as well. Just be respectful, but hopefully everybody already knows this.

That is not to say, people should not date who they want and find love. But this is a tough one. Where do you draw the line?

Example:
I have shared many intimate details about my relationship with some of my Femme Sisters. My partner knows I share these things. Intimate details which have helped me process aspects of my relationship. DJ and I break up. My dear dear Femme Sister decides it is okay to pursue my ex without talking to me. Talk to me FIRST! But for god sake, give me time to heal.

I have fixed up friends with two of my exes. I thought... WOW, these two would make a great match. Different than the above example. I had a friend tell me years later, she ran into an ex of mine. How would I feel if they pursued something. I thought it great. After an ex and I broke up, and the wounds were still painful for me. A Femme I know called me and asked if I would put in a good word for her. Put in a good word? Are you kidding me? Not a Femme's Femme.

Make more sense?

Julie

Ok. I think I got you now.

You seem to be saying 2 things - there is a friendship code, so to speak, of behavior you expect from people who know you well, In my head, that is a friend thing not a Butch or Femme thing.

Then there is a Femme code of honor, so to speak, as to expected behavior in a relatively closed community in order to promote harmony rather then conflict.

Yes?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Ok. I think I got you now.

You seem to be saying 2 things - there is a friendship code, so to speak, of behavior you expect from people who know you well, In my head, that is a friend thing not a Butch or Femme thing.

Then there is a Femme code of honor, so to speak, as to expected behavior in a relatively closed community in order to promote harmony rather then conflict.

Yes?

Exactly. Butch or Femme... Behave appropriately.
Code of Honor... Simply respect for one another. Sex is not as important as friendships, when there is a cost to be paid.

Yes.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Julie

Kobi,

I would like to answer your questions based on my perspective.

As we know, the title of any subject can hold as great a bearing as the actual content. Be it a post here on the planet, a magazine article or the title of a poem.

When I read, "What every Femme should know." My automatic response is to read what perhaps I am missing as a Femme. Hmmm, perhaps I have not learned something in my 50 years of life and my 33 years of being an identified Femme (though I have had some lapses for personal reasons).

I do know this from a personal standpoint. In my younger years, I thought I needed to be adored and worshiped by my partner to have any value. I had long hair, just so my partner could sweep the hair in front of my eyes and would see me as more feminine. When they spent money on me, I felt loved. I wanted to hear how lucky they were, because honestly... I did not have the value within myself to believe it on my own. I wanted to be told that I was beautiful and sexy, because I did not feel this inside. It gave me validation as a Femme.

When I cut off all my hair... I was challenged. Are you really a Femme? You and I have spoken on the phone Kobi. You have heard my voice Kobi and know that I have an extremely deep voice. Not a voice of a girl. I am often mistaken for a Sir. I have heard, are you really a Femme. Years ago, this would have shamed me. These are my issues... Not the issues of any other person that I am speaking about. When I lost (partial) my breast - I lost a sense of my femininity. I felt like I was not Feminine enough to wear the clothes that made me sexy at one time. What a Femme should know... For me. None of the above matters. If I can say out loud here, what other Femme's might be feeling, similar to what I have felt in the past. Then that is a good thing. I am a Femme. I have the knowledge about being a Femme that a butch just does not have. This is not to say, I have the knowledge what all Femme's should feel. Feelings are personal.

Regardless if the OP identifies as Male Identified, Heterosexual, Female or anything else which might fall in between, matters not to me. I responded based on the Title and then of course on the content.

I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. And in being entitled to our opinions, we are "all," welcome to post them. I do not believe anybody attacked the OP. Strong and beautiful self empowered Femme's came in here, and gave their own rendition.

If a Femme came in here and posted the same content. My response and reaction would be the same. I would have come in and posted it. If a Femme says to me. You know Julie, if you were just a little bit more domestic (a lot actually) and cooked and cleaned for your butch... You might be able to hold on to one long enough. True that! But the fact of the matter... I am not domestic and I certainly am not going to change the character of my being to keep a butch. Some might. And some garner pleasure for the acts of domestication. I do not. Regardless if it makes my Butch feel love and adored. I am not doing it. Anymore than I want my Butch to do something for me that does not garner them pleasure.

What every Butch should know!

What should every Butch know?
Simple - Do not tell me how I am supposed to feel.
Just as I would NEVER tell you how you are supposed to feel.

Honoring my sisters is huge for me. For me. I know they have my back. I know I have their backs. I know I would go to the depths of the world for some of these sisters of mine. I know they would do the same for me. I do hope Butches have similar relationships with their Butch Sisters/Brothers.

Julie

This ENTIRE post. In its entirety. Gorgeous! Julie for President!!!