Small Plane Crashes in Austin Tx

Dylan · 02-19-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishGrrl

As an aside. I wonder if this guy was an active voter. I mean..if we REALLY want CHANGE? Get off your lazy ass and VOTE people!!!

Do you know what a low percentage of our country actually votes?? It's insane..

If you dont vote...dont BITCH!!

Irish

Yeah, 'cuz voting works

Isn't That How We Ended Up With George W's First Reign Of Terror?,
Dylan

IrishGrrl · 02-19-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

Yeah, 'cuz voting works

Isn't That How We Ended Up With George W's First Reign Of Terror?,
Dylan

True.
But what about the numbers of people who came out and voted for Obama?

Dylan · 02-19-2010, 09:12 PM

And just for the record, this type of plane costs less than most new cars. It's not some 'high on the hog' luxury liner. It's a cheap little plane.

And there's NO 'assumed safety' when going to work...just as there's no 'assumed safety' when getting into One's car and driving on the roads.

Dylan

Goofy · 02-19-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

baiting??? hardly. I am speaking what i know to be true.oh wqait, thats right if someone does not agree with you. its baiting. remember the first amendment?

You mean the 1st amendment that states "Congress shall pass no law...."?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

And just for the record, this type of plane costs less than most new cars. It's not some 'high on the hog' luxury liner. It's a cheap little plane.

And there's NO 'assumed safety' when going to work...just as there's no 'assumed safety' when getting into One's car and driving on the roads.

Dylan

His plane, a piper cherokee, averages $30-40,000 for a plane that's 30 years old. Don't forget to add insurance, maintenance and storage fees since it obviously was not parked in his driveway. Maybe not a luxury liner, but far from cheap.

So everyday you go to work, you expect someone with a grievance to fly a plane into your place of work? I know I sure don't. I think it's fairly safe to say that most people don't have that fear.

Dylan · 02-20-2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofy

His plane, a piper cherokee, averages $30-40,000 for a plane that's 30 years old. Don't forget to add insurance, maintenance and storage fees since it obviously was not parked in his driveway. Maybe not a luxury liner, but far from cheap.

So everyday you go to work, you expect someone with a grievance to fly a plane into your place of work? I know I sure don't. I think it's fairly safe to say that most people don't have that fear.

The numbers I saw on used planes were much lower than the ones you found.

Hit by a plane? Not necessarily. But an 'assumption of safety'? No, I don't have an assumption of safety at my job. When I worked in construction, an 'assumption of safety' would get me killed, missing a limb, burned, missing a finger, etc. There's no 'assumption of safety'. I also worked with criminals. So, no...no assumption of safety there. I also worked with a number of unstable alcoholics...no safety there. There's no safety when you're working 50 stories up in the air, with unstable alcoholic criminals handling hot tar at temperatures over 600 degrees Fahrenheit.

Mahhh Woman who has a completely different type of job than construction has absolutely NO 'assumption of safety' and very often runs the risk of suffering the retribution of some pissed off citizen. Bomb threats in her building are quite frequent. She has even had to have police escorts as have many of her coworkers. Some of her coworkers have even had 24hour police protection. My girlfriend has also been evacuated from many government buildings other than the one she works in because of bomb threats. So, no...no assumption of safety.

Many government employees who deal with people's lives DON'T have an 'assumption of safety' at their jobs.

Nor do many hospital workers, police officers, emts, fire fighters, car mechanics, most factory workers, electricians, the ever popular postal workers, etc. Health insurance workers are also targeted frequently.

A friend of mine who works for a social justice non-profit also has been evacuated three times in the last two weeks by bomb threats. The two weeks before that, her building was on lockdown because of a shooter. So, no...no assumption of safety.

And then we get to courthouse workers including judges, lawyers, baliffs, etc who are often the targets of retaliation from pissed off citizens.

And the ever popular airport workers who are now dealing with bombs in shoes and underpants.

Human resources workers are also targeted frequently, because they mess with people's lives.

And this wasn't the IRS building where people just plug your 1040 return numbers into some database somewhere. These were the IRS workers who freeze your accounts. These are government workers who really disrupt people's lives, so I can assume (based on my girlfriend's experience as a government worker who disrupts people's lives but NOT to the extent of the IRS) that this isn't the first time these folks have dealt with some sort of retaliation.

When you're in a position in which you have control over people's lives, you can expect that people are going to get reallllly pissed off. Yeah, planes don't fly into buildings everyday (but loooorrrrrrdy be when they do, people flip the fuck out), but that doesn't mean that retaliation isn't undertaken everyday...especially toward those who have power and control over other people's finances, health, welfare, food, children, families, housing, livelihood, etc.

Dylan

Goofy · 02-20-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

<snipped for brevity>

When you're in a position in which you have control over people's lives, you can expect that people are going to get reallllly pissed off. Yeah, planes don't fly into buildings everyday (but loooorrrrrrdy be when they do, people flip the fuck out), but that doesn't mean that retaliation isn't undertaken everyday...especially toward those who have power and control over other people's finances, health, welfare, food, children, families, housing, livelihood, etc.

Dylan

Dylan, I get what you're saying...mostly. But I think you’re nit picking a bit.

MOST people in MOST jobs don’t fear for their lives every day. Police, Fire Fighters and EMTs are the ones that come to mind as those that do. Because they NEED to in order to do their jobs effectively. Even most people in the military have some level of assumed safety, unless they’re deployed in a hostile area.

I too have done various jobs in construction, roofing, etc. I took those jobs knowing there was an inherent risk involved in them. Those jobs involved risks that, for the most part, I could control. There was little concern that someone would come in and shoot me because I didn’t hang the drywall right.

As you know, I work for the government as well. We've had bomb threats, gun threats and various other threats. But I don't go to work every day thinking that this could be the day someone loses it and blows up the building. So there is a general “assumption of safety” there. I also worked in Human Resources where my office was threatened for not hiring someone. Hell, I worked at a pizza place in college that had a bomb threat. But those were rare incidents and certainly not indicative of daily operations

So while I agree with you that virtually no job is 100% safe, I feel believe that most people DO have an assumption of safety when they go into work.

No matter what sort of work the IRS did in that building gives anyone the right to fly a plane into it. Or threaten its workers in any way. We can argue this point till the sheep come home, but I’m still not buying it.

Cyclopea · 02-20-2010, 12:59 PM

Excerpted from Seven Deadly Traits by Dave Cullen@ Slate:

" I spoke with several experts in mass murder Thursday, and we identified seven deadly traits of impending danger in Stack's manifesto.

Narcissism/egocentricity: Joseph Stack ended his life with a supreme act of narcissism, and that quality leaps out of every line of his rationalization. It's all about him. Through 30 years of his torture, "thieves, liars and self-serving scumbags" in Congress continually targeted Stack personally. The IRS and his own accountant joined in to make him their personal whipping boy. When the Senate redrew the tax code in 1986, "they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d)," Stack writes.

Grandiosity: Stack's grievances are wildly overblown and his swipes at powerful institutions grand and hyperbolic: "the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church . . . monsters of organized religion," "thugs and plunderers" in corporate boardrooms driven by "gluttony and overwhelming stupidity" committing "unthinkable atrocities." More comical is Stack's portrait of his own misery. As a fuller, objective emerges, we're likely to see more dramatic chasms between reality and his depictions, but the contradictions are already comical. Stack likens his plight to an elderly woman in the neighborhood living on cat food. He doesn't mention eating it in the cockpit of his private plane. In Stack's version, he lived and died a pauper. In real life, he amassed a series of businesses, a $230,000 home in an affluent community, and the airplane he crashed into the building.

Martyr/injustice collector: Killers like Stack love to project themselves as martyrs, but that thinking often emerges from a long history of collecting injustices, while ignoring his ever-growing wealth. Big Brother "strips my carcass," Stack complains. His antagonists are merciless: "[A]s usual, they left me to rot and die." He complains that the 1986 tax revision might as well as "directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave."

Superiority masking self-loathing (projection): Stack lashes out at "the incredible stupidity of the American public": "brainwashed" "zombies" who follow along dutifully, incapable of his keen insights to look right through the horror of "the real American nightmare." It's a feeble claim of superiority, when the entire treatise reeks of self-loathing. Stark ends with an attack on capitalism—"From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed." But this is not a man who rejected the system. He only rejected the idea of paying his taxes. He spent his life creating businesses, working the system, and constantly keeping score with his bank balance. Stack embraced capitalism and then convinced himself he was a dismal failure at it.
There is a strong hint of projection in Stack's thinking. When he complains of moving to a better life in Austin and discovering "a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance," he might as well be describing the document he's composing. Projection is common among depressed people, who take a personal trait they despise in themselves and apply it to something external to bat around and ridicule. The televangelist who decries immorality in the midst of an affair is a classic example. It looks to us like conscious hypocrisy, but it's really just a dirty little reusable tool for him to beat up on his own sins.

Isolationist thinking: This served as an aggravating factor for Stack. He presents himself as battling a monolithic series of adversaries: big business, big government, Big Brother, big religion. He sees himself as a shrunken David unable to match this Goliath. There is a suggestion of paranoia here. Stack is a supremely unreliable narrator of his own story, but he does seem to have created real financial hardship for himself. When he repeatedly chose not to pay his taxes, one or more of his business licenses was suspended.
That seems to be at the heart of Stack's whole mess. Unnamed, but ever-present in his commentary, is his immersion in a fringe group or groups who believed they were exempt from the federal income tax. By his account, Stack devoted enormous time, energy, and possibly money to this cause.
Stack made some awful choices on his taxes, but surrounding himself with like-minded zealots may have been just as dangerous in the long run. In his insightful FBI study "The Lethal Triad," Dr. Kevin Gilmartin describes intellectual isolation as a key factor when extremists lash out violently. It's counterintuitive, but joining certain groups can be more isolating than living alone. Stack found a group that encouraged and validated the idea of avoiding taxation, which might have been difficult for him to sustain on his own. The moral support he found appears to have helped him sustain a rather nutty concept for 20 to 30 years, in spite of the economic distress it inflicted on him.

Construing selfishness as selflessness: Stack needed a coping strategy, a rationalization for his financial failure. He found one in patriotism. Sure, it may look like greed to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, but Stack was doing it all for us! And, oh, the price he paid. "That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0."

Helplessness/hopelessness: Joseph Stack committed both homicide and suicide this week, but all the signs point to suicide as the driver. The FBI trains hostage negotiators to look for two clear signals that a perpetrator is likely to do himself in. Helplessness is the sense that I can't get things to work out. Hopelessness sets in when that belief becomes permanent: The helplessness is here to stay. Stack's manifesto reeks of both. He felt powerless and took control in the only way he knew he could "win." He was pretty sure that if he crashed that plane his life would end. He just needed a way to justify it.

That's where the first four symptoms—narcissism, grandiosity, superiority, and martyrdom—came back into play. Performance murders like Stack's are narcissism taken to its worst extreme. Lots of people will die, most of them innocent, but sorry, I had to kill them to make my point. It's all about me."

http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/

Dylan · 02-20-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofy

Dylan, I get what you're saying...mostly. But I think you’re nit picking a bit.

MOST people in MOST jobs don’t fear for their lives every day. Police, Fire Fighters and EMTs are the ones that come to mind as those that do. Because they NEED to in order to do their jobs effectively. Even most people in the military have some level of assumed safety, unless they’re deployed in a hostile area.

I too have done various jobs in construction, roofing, etc. I took those jobs knowing there was an inherent risk involved in them. Those jobs involved risks that, for the most part, I could control. There was little concern that someone would come in and shoot me because I didn’t hang the drywall right.

As you know, I work for the government as well. We've had bomb threats, gun threats and various other threats. But I don't go to work every day thinking that this could be the day someone loses it and blows up the building. So there is a general “assumption of safety” there. I also worked in Human Resources where my office was threatened for not hiring someone. Hell, I worked at a pizza place in college that had a bomb threat. But those were rare incidents and certainly not indicative of daily operations

So while I agree with you that virtually no job is 100% safe, I feel believe that most people DO have an assumption of safety when they go into work.

No matter what sort of work the IRS did in that building gives anyone the right to fly a plane into it. Or threaten its workers in any way. We can argue this point till the sheep come home, but I’m still not buying it.

And I disagree that it's a *most* people thing. I think more people than less have an assumed danger in their jobs. But we can agree to disagree.

I didn't know you work for the government...I thought you worked at a dentist's office.

Again, I don't know what you do for the government, but you're welcome to talk to Mahhh Woman about the (un)safety of her job. I'm sure her friend who was under 24hour police protection for months (I think it was months) would be willing to tell you about her experiences being followed, called on her personal phones, etc by known criminals.

Again, you're leaving out judges, district attorneys (more of Mahhh Woman's friends), court workers, etc.

I also don't know how long you were in construction, but I've seen some horrible accidents and even a man get run over by one of those big asphalt rollers. Only one of the accidents (a guy who accidently poured two buckets of hot tar all over his face...it was pretty horrible) was under the person's control. And when I set a man's leg on fire...it wasn't under his control.

We have probation and parole officers.

My point is, there is no assumed safety when dealing with other people. No one really knows when someone is going to snap. And if you're in a position that completely disrupts the lives of others, the chances of someone snapping go up.

Just as there's no assumed safety when driving your car. You never know what someone else is going to do. I mean, like you said, even at a pizza shop there's a bomb threat. And how many churches (they're 'supposed' to be safe) have been bombed?

Dylan

Ashlea? · 02-20-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

Aren't we doing this right now?

In Iraq, Afghanistan, and covertly in other places in the world?

Didn't we do this in Libya, Israel, India, Guatemala, Colombia, Venezuela, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Palestinian terretories, Iran, Syria, Germany, Russia, well...just name a country besides England and maybe Canada

Dylan

Amen, someone finally said it.

But wait..

Are you all not looking at the real glitch behind this?
Here is the Pilots manifesto
http://www.benpadiah.com/otherstuff/JoeStack.pdf

If you have no idea what he is talking about, man oh man wake up and smell the epic shit storm comin. Your government owns you.

Scream conspiracy theorist all you want, its not a theory with proof :http://mirror.wikileaks.info/

Dylan · 02-19-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishGrrl

True.
But what about the numbers of people who came out and voted for Obama?

Maybe it was the high cost of water these days that drove people from their homes and into voting booths

I Mean, Bush Really Did Fuck Things Up, No?,
Dylan

IrishGrrl · 02-21-2010, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

Maybe it was the high cost of water these days that drove people from their homes and into voting booths

I Mean, Bush Really Did Fuck Things Up, No?,
Dylan

He most certainly did.

Five people in my house.

5 showers a day.

Aprox.25-30 flushes a day

15-20 loads of laundry a week..in a large washer.

My bill this month was 18 dollars.

Sewage was 23.

The kids are gonna have to start peeing in the yard.

Diavolo · 02-21-2010, 07:56 AM

Taxes are a necessary evil in a civilized society. When I was in Germany almost half of my income went to taxes. Of course there wasn't any tax on gas or consumables, but it felt like a lot, until I got hurt and the German Doctor fixed me and sent me on my way.

We all have to pay taxes. As I always say to people who don't want to pay taxes, great, stay off the highways, don't call a cop or a fireman, don't ask the Army to do anything on your behalf and don't take an airplane. Don't send your brats to the public schools and don't ask us to put anyone in jail for committing a crime that won't be investigated because there are no police. I could go on for a while on that one but I think my point is clear.

The wingnut faction who is trying to steal this country away with their don't tread on me bullshit is out of touch with the reality of an entity as large as this country. Do I want my tax money wasted? Absolutely not. Do I want a safety net in place for people who fall on hard times? Yes. Do I want to support someone who is capable of working for the rest of their life? No. Do I have a problem paying my fair share? Nope.

Personally, I want corporations out of government. I do not want BofA or anyone else contributing to the election of a Congressman. The Supreme Court came out with their worst decision of all time on that one. OK, Dred Scott was worse, but you get what I mean. I do not want banks bailed out by our government while families lose their homes. And if Good Lord willing I become one of the 2% who make over $250k a year, I'll pay my fair share. If I can't make my mortgage payment, I expect to lose my house under the terms of the contract I signed. If a CEO runs a company into the ground because like Jamie Dimon they thought the real estate market would never stop going up, they should lose their jobs and their houses. They should not get a pat on the back, a bucket of money and a bonus next year.

I understand that people are frustrated. It's a lack of education and the result of 8 years of an Asleep at the Wheel Presidency. Last month I had a guy blame Obama for him losing his house. Except they missed he first mortgage payment in July 2008. There is a disconnect.

We forget that Bush couldn't find oil in Texas, ran the Rangers into the ground and basically had a track record of fucking up a wet dream. It's not some drone following procedures at an IRS building that is the problem. It's the Congress that enacts laws that they haven't read that have amendments in them that benefit corporations and punish constituents. It's the lack of personal responsibility in this country which is a direct extension of the lack of corporate responsibility in this country. If everybody stepped up and said "I own this", say like Tiger did, we'd be in a better place.

As for the clown that bulldozed the house, he breached the mortgage when he did that and now he'll have nothing and still owe taxes and the mortgage. They will hound him until the end of time. Idiot. And he's probably the kind of guy who complains about attorneys. Like my brother the attorney says "if y'all would act right, I'd be out of work, but you don't."

02-20-2010, 12:59 PM	#7
Cyclopea Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Lesbian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Exit Zero Posts: 1,267 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,694 Thanked 1,615 Times in 632 Posts Rep Power: 226201	Common Traits of Performance Murderers Excerpted from *Seven Deadly Traits* by Dave Cullen@ Slate: " I spoke with several experts in mass murder Thursday, and we identified seven deadly traits of impending danger in Stack's manifesto. Narcissism/egocentricity: Joseph Stack ended his life with a supreme act of narcissism, and that quality leaps out of every line of his rationalization. It's all about him. Through 30 years of his torture, "thieves, liars and self-serving scumbags" in Congress continually targeted Stack personally. The IRS and his own accountant joined in to make him their personal whipping boy. When the Senate redrew the tax code in 1986, "they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d)," Stack writes. Grandiosity: Stack's grievances are wildly overblown and his swipes at powerful institutions grand and hyperbolic: "the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church . . . monsters of organized religion," "thugs and plunderers" in corporate boardrooms driven by "gluttony and overwhelming stupidity" committing "unthinkable atrocities." More comical is Stack's portrait of his own misery. As a fuller, objective emerges, we're likely to see more dramatic chasms between reality and his depictions, but the contradictions are already comical. Stack likens his plight to an elderly woman in the neighborhood living on cat food. He doesn't mention eating it in the cockpit of his private plane. In Stack's version, he lived and died a pauper. In real life, he amassed a series of businesses, a $230,000 home in an affluent community, and the airplane he crashed into the building. Martyr/injustice collector: Killers like Stack love to project themselves as martyrs, but that thinking often emerges from a long history of collecting injustices, while ignoring his ever-growing wealth. Big Brother "strips my carcass," Stack complains. His antagonists are merciless: "[A]s usual, they left me to rot and die." He complains that the 1986 tax revision might as well as "directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave." Superiority masking self-loathing (projection): Stack lashes out at "the incredible stupidity of the American public": "brainwashed" "zombies" who follow along dutifully, incapable of his keen insights to look right through the horror of "the real American nightmare." It's a feeble claim of superiority, when the entire treatise reeks of self-loathing. Stark ends with an attack on capitalism—"From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed." But this is not a man who rejected the system. He only rejected the idea of paying his taxes. He spent his life creating businesses, working the system, and constantly keeping score with his bank balance. Stack embraced capitalism and then convinced himself he was a dismal failure at it. There is a strong hint of projection in Stack's thinking. When he complains of moving to a better life in Austin and discovering "a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance," he might as well be describing the document he's composing. Projection is common among depressed people, who take a personal trait they despise in themselves and apply it to something external to bat around and ridicule. The televangelist who decries immorality in the midst of an affair is a classic example. It looks to us like conscious hypocrisy, but it's really just a dirty little reusable tool for him to beat up on his own sins. Isolationist thinking: This served as an aggravating factor for Stack. He presents himself as battling a monolithic series of adversaries: big business, big government, Big Brother, big religion. He sees himself as a shrunken David unable to match this Goliath. There is a suggestion of paranoia here. Stack is a supremely unreliable narrator of his own story, but he does seem to have created real financial hardship for himself. When he repeatedly chose not to pay his taxes, one or more of his business licenses was suspended. That seems to be at the heart of Stack's whole mess. Unnamed, but ever-present in his commentary, is his immersion in a fringe group or groups who believed they were exempt from the federal income tax. By his account, Stack devoted enormous time, energy, and possibly money to this cause. Stack made some awful choices on his taxes, but surrounding himself with like-minded zealots may have been just as dangerous in the long run. In his insightful FBI study "The Lethal Triad," Dr. Kevin Gilmartin describes intellectual isolation as a key factor when extremists lash out violently. It's counterintuitive, but joining certain groups can be more isolating than living alone. Stack found a group that encouraged and validated the idea of avoiding taxation, which might have been difficult for him to sustain on his own. The moral support he found appears to have helped him sustain a rather nutty concept for 20 to 30 years, in spite of the economic distress it inflicted on him. Construing selfishness as selflessness: Stack needed a coping strategy, a rationalization for his financial failure. He found one in patriotism. Sure, it may look like greed to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, but Stack was doing it all for us! And, oh, the price he paid. "That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0." Helplessness/hopelessness: Joseph Stack committed both homicide and suicide this week, but all the signs point to suicide as the driver. The FBI trains hostage negotiators to look for two clear signals that a perpetrator is likely to do himself in. Helplessness is the sense that I can't get things to work out. Hopelessness sets in when that belief becomes permanent: The helplessness is here to stay. Stack's manifesto reeks of both. He felt powerless and took control in the only way he knew he could "win." He was pretty sure that if he crashed that plane his life would end. He just needed a way to justify it. That's where the first four symptoms—narcissism, grandiosity, superiority, and martyrdom—came back into play. Performance murders like Stack's are narcissism taken to its worst extreme. Lots of people will die, most of them innocent, but sorry, I had to kill them to make my point. It's all about me." http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/ __________________ http://forum.axishistory.com/images/...arious/eye.jpg

02-19-2010, 09:12 PM	#3
Dylan Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: She thinks all my jokes are corny Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Great State O' Posts: 880 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,027 Thanked 1,838 Times in 500 Posts Rep Power: 0	And just for the record, this type of plane costs less than most new cars. It's not some 'high on the hog' luxury liner. It's a cheap little plane. And there's NO 'assumed safety' when going to work...just as there's no 'assumed safety' when getting into One's car and driving on the roads. Dylan

02-21-2010, 07:56 AM	#12
Diavolo Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wine Cellar Posts: 163 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 130 Thanked 433 Times in 117 Posts Rep Power: 3304129	Taxes are a necessary evil in a civilized society. When I was in Germany almost half of my income went to taxes. Of course there wasn't any tax on gas or consumables, but it felt like a lot, until I got hurt and the German Doctor fixed me and sent me on my way. We all have to pay taxes. As I always say to people who don't want to pay taxes, great, stay off the highways, don't call a cop or a fireman, don't ask the Army to do anything on your behalf and don't take an airplane. Don't send your brats to the public schools and don't ask us to put anyone in jail for committing a crime that won't be investigated because there are no police. I could go on for a while on that one but I think my point is clear. The wingnut faction who is trying to steal this country away with their don't tread on me bullshit is out of touch with the reality of an entity as large as this country. Do I want my tax money wasted? Absolutely not. Do I want a safety net in place for people who fall on hard times? Yes. Do I want to support someone who is capable of working for the rest of their life? No. Do I have a problem paying my fair share? Nope. Personally, I want corporations out of government. I do not want BofA or anyone else contributing to the election of a Congressman. The Supreme Court came out with their worst decision of all time on that one. OK, Dred Scott was worse, but you get what I mean. I do not want banks bailed out by our government while families lose their homes. And if Good Lord willing I become one of the 2% who make over $250k a year, I'll pay my fair share. If I can't make my mortgage payment, I expect to lose my house under the terms of the contract I signed. If a CEO runs a company into the ground because like Jamie Dimon they thought the real estate market would never stop going up, they should lose their jobs and their houses. They should not get a pat on the back, a bucket of money and a bonus next year. I understand that people are frustrated. It's a lack of education and the result of 8 years of an Asleep at the Wheel Presidency. Last month I had a guy blame Obama for him losing his house. Except they missed he first mortgage payment in July 2008. There is a disconnect. We forget that Bush couldn't find oil in Texas, ran the Rangers into the ground and basically had a track record of fucking up a wet dream. It's not some drone following procedures at an IRS building that is the problem. It's the Congress that enacts laws that they haven't read that have amendments in them that benefit corporations and punish constituents. It's the lack of personal responsibility in this country which is a direct extension of the lack of corporate responsibility in this country. If everybody stepped up and said "I own this", say like Tiger did, we'd be in a better place. As for the clown that bulldozed the house, he breached the mortgage when he did that and now he'll have nothing and still owe taxes and the mortgage. They will hound him until the end of time. Idiot. And he's probably the kind of guy who complains about attorneys. Like my brother the attorney says "if y'all would act right, I'd be out of work, but you don't."