A straight girl enters the queer world...

Soft*Silver · 03-12-2012, 10:13 AM

I really like all of what Princess Belle wrote. Wise woman, she is...

I am a gay female involved with a straight bio man who is genderbending towards femaleness. I am still gay. Who I am with has nothing to do with my orientation.In decades past, (and even in today's time!) some gay women and men involved themselves only with opposite sexes, in order to never feel the social stigma of being gay. If they never slept with same sex, and even married opposite sex, that did not change them from being gay.

First, I have also dated several transmen and can tell you that they are just like any other human being. Some are very nice human beings. And yes, some are asses. If he was an ass before his transition most likely and will be one after.

Second, this is THEIR relationship. He makes that decision to be so. She makes that decision to contend with it. You make that decision to try to fix both of them. Since you cant change either one of them, lets look at what and who you can change....you.

Third, YOU. Your friend isnt saying she is struggling, you are. Your friend hasnt asked for advice but you are giving it. She flips back and forth with pronouns, but hun, so did you...

"Yet, she seems to manipulate her often into making her feel like she is such a horrible person for saying and feeling the way she does at times."

why you doing this? Why are you trying to "knock" knowledge into your friend when they are pacing themselves to who they are, where they are, with each other and themselves?

let go of trying to control them. Love your Daddy. And be at peace...

Why are you the person responsible for their relationship?

DaddysKitten · 03-12-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss_Tia

I really like all of what Princess Belle wrote. Wise woman, she is...

I am a gay female involved with a straight bio man who is genderbending towards femaleness. I am still gay. Who I am with has nothing to do with my orientation.In decades past, (and even in today's time!) some gay women and men involved themselves only with opposite sexes, in order to never feel the social stigma of being gay. If they never slept with same sex, and even married opposite sex, that did not change them from being gay.

First, I have also dated several transmen and can tell you that they are just like any other human being. Some are very nice human beings. And yes, some are asses. If he was an ass before his transition most likely and will be one after.

Second, this is THEIR relationship. He makes that decision to be so. She makes that decision to contend with it. You make that decision to try to fix both of them. Since you cant change either one of them, lets look at what and who you can change....you.

Third, YOU. Your friend isnt saying she is struggling, you are. Your friend hasnt asked for advice but you are giving it. She flips back and forth with pronouns, but hun, so did you...

"Yet, she seems to manipulate her often into making her feel like she is such a horrible person for saying and feeling the way she does at times."

why you doing this? Why are you trying to "knock" knowledge into your friend when they are pacing themselves to who they are, where they are, with each other and themselves?

let go of trying to control them. Love your Daddy. And be at peace...

Why are you the person responsible for their relationship?

No, actually she is coming to me ALL the time with help in this relationship. This has nothing at all to do with control, it has to do with me reaching out for more information to be able to better help them in their relationship.

I would never ever complain about such a thing, and I will completely support her. But I am finding it a challenge, and as a good friend, who is trying to give her all she needs to help her with her questions, and her situations, that is why the post is here.

As a friend, you give advice, you lend your shoulder, and share your own ideals, and situations with them in order to help them when times are hard. This has little at all to do with control. Telling her my thoughts, and ideas, about what she comes to me with is not controlling, it's being honest and open and not sugarcoating everything, because in the end that would only be detrimental.

DeviantDaddy · 03-12-2012, 11:22 AM

My kitten, it is nice to see that you chose to post the thread after all.

Princessbelle, thank you for your input. It is very well said and yes, my kitten and I have invited my dear friend to the Planet. Hopefully she will go on to create an account and immerse herself in the numerous informative threads available.

Miss_Tia, thank you for taking the time to read the thread and also post your thoughts on it. However, there is some misunderstanding. I would like to clarify that. Both kitten and I care deeply for this friend of mine. And we happily support her and help guide her.

And though my friend is not stating she is struggling, it is not indicative of her not needing help. If someone is having a difficult time in something and I know them well enough to recognize this, what kind of friend would I be to sit back and do nothing simply because they have not reached out? Do not get me wrong, we are not forcing ourselves upon her. But when my kitten is up at all hours of the night listening to my friend sob in her ear, then yes, we will take that as a clear indication of needing help.

As for the partner's identity, I must admit that it confuses us at times. Said person appears to be confused in a way. Plenty of back and forth and to be honest I feel he still has more growing to do. One moment he is soft butch, then he is male, yet my friend says she. Kitten and I are only now getting to know him. The other night I asked him how he wants to be referred as and he said he. So we are respecting that but I can see how kitten got confused once more. In the years I have had kitten in nuuuuu life, not once has she ever referred to me as "she", largely due to my own security in my identity. Therefore I assure you, she meant no disrespect.

This isn't about trying to control them at all. It is about watching a loved one in a situation where the maximization can be solved.

DaddysKitten · 03-12-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

My kitten, it is nice to see that you chose to post the thread after all.

Princessbelle, thank you for your input. It is very well said and yes, my kitten and I have invited my dear friend to the Planet. Hopefully she will go on to create an account and immerse herself in the numerous informative threads available.

Miss_Tia, thank you for taking the time to read the thread and also post your thoughts on it. However, there is some misunderstanding. I would like to clarify that. Both kitten and I care deeply for this friend of mine. And we happily support her and help guide her.

And though my friend is not stating she is struggling, it is not indicative of her not needing help. If someone is having a difficult time in something and I know them well enough to recognize this, what kind of friend would I be to sit back and do nothing simply because they have not reached out? Do not get me wrong, we are not forcing ourselves upon her. But when my kitten is up at all hours of the night listening to my friend sob in her ear, then yes, we will take that as a clear indication of needing help.

As for the partner's identity, I must admit that it confuses us at times. Said person appears to be confused in a way. Plenty of back and forth and to be honest I feel he still has more growing to do. One moment he is soft butch, then he is male, yet my friend says she. Kitten and I are only now getting to know him. The other night I asked him how he wants to be referred as and he said he. So we are respecting that but I can see how kitten got confused once more. In the years I have had kitten in nuuuuu life, not once has she ever referred to me as "she", largely due to my own security in my identity. Therefore I assure you, she meant no disrespect.

This isn't about trying to control them at all. It is about watching a loved one in a situation where the maximization can be solved.

Thank you, Daddy. Perhaps I'll just tell you what I want to say, and let you post it, your ability with words is superior to my own, of late for some reason. lol. Love you.

T D · 03-12-2012, 12:17 PM

Just a thought, but it seems to me that if someone "really" wants to know about something/someone they will put the effort into researching the subject thoroughly. I'm not saying your friend hasn't done some of this, but it does sound like a good deal more research could be done by her on the subject. It also sounds like the two of them need to communicate more, talk, listen, share, and yes, respect the wishes of one another.

On a side note, I know for myself that I encompass all sorts of characteristics. Some people may see me as a gay male, others a straight male, and even others not sure what to think. I cook, I decorate, I love flowers, I don't drink beer, I despise performing mechanical (auto care) related activities, I like nice things in my home, etc. Sometimes I may seem callous or indifferent, while at other times I'm the most caring and generous of friends. We're all made up of so many different characteristics that I think it's unfair and difficult to "pigeon hole" anyone as being this or that type of person. We are simply who we are, with everything that makes us be that person. Whatever/whoever someone else is simply needs to be respected as a part of their being.

Just my observation from what I've read so far.

Best of luck to your friends!

Corkey · 03-12-2012, 01:37 PM

Seems to me if someone wanted to learn they would put in the effort. There are plenty of resources available, there are even support groups like SOFFA that help S/O's of Transfolks get their bearings.
The pronoun thing she'll either get it or she wont, there really isn't an in between. It may even take her some time to change the tape in her mind, but it can be done.
There are threads on this site that Transfolks post in that could be of some help to her. So I guess it's up to her to put in the effort.
Welcome you two to the Planet.

aishah · 03-12-2012, 02:12 PM

welcome to the planet!

for me, as a partner of a transman, i have a hard time understanding the pronoun issue. my partner said he preferred masculine pronouns. end of story. i slipped up a few times on accident when we first started dating but...part of being committed to someone is making a concerted effort to use their pronouns. if it were me i would feel really disrespected and unsafe, so i try not to make my partner feel that way.

i've found it super helpful to reach out to my trans* & genderqueer friends, read books, read blogs and zines, etc.

i think if this person's partner is confused about their identity that is probably not helping and might exacerbate the situation, but still - listening and talking honestly, listening to what the person wants and doesn't want (i.e. in terms of touch, pronouns, etc.) and respecting that is hugely important. everyone doesn't have to have their id figured out to be able to communicate and respect those wishes and boundaries.

i love what princess belle says about how a partner's id is a separate issue and it doesn't change (or have to change) how we id.

03-12-2012, 10:13 AM	#1
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,594 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,897 Times in 4,064 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	I really like all of what Princess Belle wrote. Wise woman, she is... I am a gay female involved with a straight bio man who is genderbending towards femaleness. I am still gay. Who I am with has nothing to do with my orientation.In decades past, (and even in today's time!) some gay women and men involved themselves only with opposite sexes, in order to never feel the social stigma of being gay. If they never slept with same sex, and even married opposite sex, that did not change them from being gay. First, I have also dated several transmen and can tell you that they are just like any other human being. Some are very nice human beings. And yes, some are asses. If he was an ass before his transition most likely and will be one after. Second, this is THEIR relationship. He makes that decision to be so. She makes that decision to contend with it. You make that decision to try to fix both of them. Since you cant change either one of them, lets look at what and who you can change....you. Third, YOU. Your friend isnt saying she is struggling, you are. Your friend hasnt asked for advice but you are giving it. She flips back and forth with pronouns, but hun, so did you... "Yet, she seems to manipulate her often into making her feel like she is such a horrible person for saying and feeling the way she does at times." why you doing this? Why are you trying to "knock" knowledge into your friend when they are pacing themselves to who they are, where they are, with each other and themselves? let go of trying to control them. Love your Daddy. And be at peace... Why are you the person responsible for their relationship? __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

03-12-2012, 12:17 PM	#5
T D Member How Do You Identify?: Person of the trans variety Preferred Pronoun?: He, Sir, Bro, TD, Stevin Relationship Status: On occasion Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,165 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,428 Thanked 1,125 Times in 311 Posts Rep Power: 3570339	Just a thought, but it seems to me that if someone "really" wants to know about something/someone they will put the effort into researching the subject thoroughly. I'm not saying your friend hasn't done some of this, but it does sound like a good deal more research could be done by her on the subject. It also sounds like the two of them need to communicate more, talk, listen, share, and yes, respect the wishes of one another. On a side note, I know for myself that I encompass all sorts of characteristics. Some people may see me as a gay male, others a straight male, and even others not sure what to think. I cook, I decorate, I love flowers, I don't drink beer, I despise performing mechanical (auto care) related activities, I like nice things in my home, etc. Sometimes I may seem callous or indifferent, while at other times I'm the most caring and generous of friends. We're all made up of so many different characteristics that I think it's unfair and difficult to "pigeon hole" anyone as being this or that type of person. We are simply who we are, with everything that makes us be that person. Whatever/whoever someone else is simply needs to be respected as a part of their being. Just my observation from what I've read so far. Best of luck to your friends! __________________ “Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” Last edited by T D; 03-12-2012 at 12:41 PM.

03-12-2012, 01:37 PM	#6
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Seems to me if someone wanted to learn they would put in the effort. There are plenty of resources available, there are even support groups like SOFFA that help S/O's of Transfolks get their bearings. The pronoun thing she'll either get it or she wont, there really isn't an in between. It may even take her some time to change the tape in her mind, but it can be done. There are threads on this site that Transfolks post in that could be of some help to her. So I guess it's up to her to put in the effort. Welcome you two to the Planet. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

03-12-2012, 11:22 AM	#3
DeviantDaddy Junior Member How Do You Identify?: TG Male Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him Relationship Status: Mated Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 93 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 115 Thanked 258 Times in 65 Posts Rep Power: 1840892	My kitten, it is nice to see that you chose to post the thread after all. Princessbelle, thank you for your input. It is very well said and yes, my kitten and I have invited my dear friend to the Planet. Hopefully she will go on to create an account and immerse herself in the numerous informative threads available. Miss_Tia, thank you for taking the time to read the thread and also post your thoughts on it. However, there is some misunderstanding. I would like to clarify that. Both kitten and I care deeply for this friend of mine. And we happily support her and help guide her. And though my friend is not stating she is struggling, it is not indicative of her not needing help. If someone is having a difficult time in something and I know them well enough to recognize this, what kind of friend would I be to sit back and do nothing simply because they have not reached out? Do not get me wrong, we are not forcing ourselves upon her. But when my kitten is up at all hours of the night listening to my friend sob in her ear, then yes, we will take that as a clear indication of needing help. As for the partner's identity, I must admit that it confuses us at times. Said person appears to be confused in a way. Plenty of back and forth and to be honest I feel he still has more growing to do. One moment he is soft butch, then he is male, yet my friend says she. Kitten and I are only now getting to know him. The other night I asked him how he wants to be referred as and he said he. So we are respecting that but I can see how kitten got confused once more. In the years I have had kitten in nuuuuu life, not once has she ever referred to me as "she", largely due to my own security in my identity. Therefore I assure you, she meant no disrespect. This isn't about trying to control them at all. It is about watching a loved one in a situation where the maximization can be solved.

03-12-2012, 02:12 PM	#7
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,440 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	welcome to the planet! for me, as a partner of a transman, i have a hard time understanding the pronoun issue. my partner said he preferred masculine pronouns. end of story. i slipped up a few times on accident when we first started dating but...part of being committed to someone is making a concerted effort to use their pronouns. if it were me i would feel really disrespected and unsafe, so i try not to make my partner feel that way. i've found it super helpful to reach out to my trans* & genderqueer friends, read books, read blogs and zines, etc. i think if this person's partner is confused about their identity that is probably not helping and might exacerbate the situation, but still - listening and talking honestly, listening to what the person wants and doesn't want (i.e. in terms of touch, pronouns, etc.) and respecting that is hugely important. everyone doesn't have to have their id figured out to be able to communicate and respect those wishes and boundaries. i love what princess belle says about how a partner's id is a separate issue and it doesn't change (or have to change) how we id.