A straight girl enters the queer world...

[Julie]

Originally Posted by aishah

i have no idea what happened to this thread.

bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

other folks have observed different things and maybe don't agree. not everyone has to agree.

i'm not sure what the hell happened. i don't by any means think that bulldog needs defending, but i did want to post publicly to say that i, for one, am grateful to both her and parker for speaking up on this thread. i have learned something valuable from it.

This is what happens in nearly all threads that discuss our community. Things go off track or get heated. It is often how we learn from one another and understand different perspectives.

It's what people do. They discuss and discuss and discuss.

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

[aishah]

i understand that threads get heated and off-topic, which is generally the point at which i choose step back publicly. however, i had sent a message to bulldog privately thanking her for her posts, and i didn't feel right about not voicing my support of what she said publicly when her words have clearly been misinterpreted.

[BullDog]

Thank you very much aishah. You do understand what I have been saying perfectly.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Julie

This is what happens in nearly all threads that discuss our community. Things go off track or get heated. It is often how we learn from one another and understand different perspectives.

It's what people do. They discuss and discuss and discuss.

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

Agreed Julie. We're not all going to have those kumbiya moments, but I'll tell ya' what..I got Bully's back and weatherboi's and Ebons and Parkers, and, and.
Family often don't see eye to eye, thing is we don't have to. That doesn't mean we don't get to have differing opinions, it means we are diverse, and that in my book is always a good thing.

[BullDog]

I think it is important when we do disagree to do so respectfully. I haven't accused anyone of demonizing or starting a butch vs trans war or making blanket statements. To me that is quite different than Julie and I or Corkey and I having a different point of view and discussing things respectfully.

I believe in any relationship both partners or prospective partners have equal responsibilities. I don't think stone butches or transmen or anyone else have any less responsibility or go through any more than anyone else does. Just because someone doesn't know much about stone butch doesn't mean there is more of a burden on her to learn more about me. We are both equally responsible to learn about and understand each other.

[Words]

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by Words

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

No no no. I did not take it 'personal' at all. I was just hoping for a bit more positive reinforcement, and it has gone completely off task immediately. I am enjoying it, but knowing her, it would scare her. That is all.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

Are you sure we aren't related?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

I know Bully came in and clarified when folks got up in arms about her saying this, but I've got to say...am I the only one who read it as she typed it? Y'all, I wear coke bottle glasses and I saw this clear as day (not Day, who has been MIA).

Please see the underlined text.

To me, this one point (and only this one point....I'm not touching the other mess) is saying that ALL parties involved with one another should EQUALLY attempt to learn about the other and the other's affiliations/presentation/id/family/etc. That one side should not put more effort or energy into this than the other; that it should be BALANCED.

How does that turn into 'disinterest'?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

Please don't take this wrong, but all of us talking and being blunt isn't animosity, it's folks who are passionate about their opinions. I'm still friends with Bully and Parker and Julie and weatherboi, and everyone else who has a different opinion than I do. No one can see beyond the screen, so sometimes our passionate responses are taken wrong, which is why I asked for clarification, and I got it. I'd still go to dinner with them and have a brew, or whatever.
Sometimes family yell, just 'cause we yell doesn't mean we don't like one another.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Please don't take this wrong, but all of us talking and being blunt isn't animosity, it's folks who are passionate about their opinions. I'm still friends with Bully and Parker and Julie and weatherboi, and everyone else who has a different opinion than I do. No one can see beyond the screen, so sometimes our passionate responses are taken wrong, which is why I asked for clarification, and I got it. I'd still go to dinner with them and have a brew, or whatever.
Sometimes family yell, just 'cause we yell doesn't mean we don't like one another.

Not to get off topic - But I am not having Brew. It leaves an ugly taste in my mouth.

LOL

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Words

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

I don't think it matters. We don't know their names. We don't know where they live. They are not members here. We have no way of identifying them. No privacy has been invaded.

It could be about ANY two individuals facing this issue and dealing with it.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by aishah

i understand that threads get heated and off-topic, which is generally the point at which i choose step back publicly. however, i had sent a message to bulldog privately thanking her for her posts, and i didn't feel right about not voicing my support of what she said publicly when her words have clearly been misinterpreted.

Aishah, I hope you will feel comfortable at some point in your time here, to voice your opinions publicly and not step back when things get heated and even go off-topic. Some of the best learning moments have come about, when we go off topic. It's good you sent Bulldog a private message appreciating her opinions. And you should voice your opinions... Things will always get heated here on the planet, just like they do at home sitting around the kitchen table.

Originally Posted by Corkey

Agreed Julie. We're not all going to have those kumbiya moments, but I'll tell ya' what..I got Bully's back and weatherboi's and Ebons and Parkers, and, and.
Family often don't see eye to eye, thing is we don't have to. That doesn't mean we don't get to have differing opinions, it means we are diverse, and that in my book is always a good thing.

That's right Corkey - You and I have had many differences of opinions. But still, we are always always there for one another. I love this about our community.

Some people can handle it and some cannot.

Bully - not sure why your post did not quote. Oftentimes, our words come across much different online than if we were sitting together. We miss the facial expressions and body language. You and I have not always agreed and you and I have often agreed. It's good to keep the dialogue running. Life would get so dreadful if we all just YESSED (is that a word?) one another.

Julie