Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Syr]

Originally Posted by Toughy

This is a thread about butch body image in the butch zone. There are plenty of threads in the femme zone about femme body issues. I promise if a couple of three butches posted about our body image in a femme thread (even if asked by a femme) all holy hell would break loose.

Please take your femme stuff to the femme threads. Thank you

Perhaps you should read back where the 'femmes' were asked for their opinion.

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Yes unfortunately humans can be downright mean. I think there are times when we think this community or others we have belonged to would be a safe haven. Not so true!

Clicks are everywhere including here. If you don't fit the click you don't fit. There are some who judge everyone by looks and looks only.

I find it a shame that anyone feels bad about who they are, how they id and how they think they have to look to fit in.

All of us no matter our ID come in all shapes and sizes and that is what makes us all so damn cool!

Agree. There is no escaping the herd mentality, not here, not in the real world of our real lives. The media feeds this ugly beast by simply indicating that we are "less than perfect" and that is NOT acceptable....

...IMHO

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Syr

Perhaps you should read back where the 'femmes' were asked for their opinion.

Is this necessary? Why would you assume I did not read the post by dykeumentary? Cheryl also addressed it.

I actually addressed that in my post only it was the reverse.....and I will repeat it: Even if asked by a femme.............ALL HELL would break loose if a butch posted about body image in a femme thread.

Could we please continue talking about butch body issues and not get side-tracked. Thank you.

---------------------------
I have always believed my comfort with my body came as a result of the strong women in my life and the fact masculine women (straight and lesbian) were not uncommon in the farm and ranch communities I was raised in. I had masculine women and feminine women to serve as role models for the different ways a woman can walk in this world. It certainly was a blessing.

My maternal grandmother was the first to address my masculinity and sexual orientation when I was about 11-12yrs old. Grandmother was a dancing fool and spent many a saturday night at the shit kicker bar dancing with cowboys. She told me a story about this woman who went dancing with her crowd of friends. It seems this woman wore a suit and tie and always only danced (and lead) with other women. She said it was just fine and that this woman was a great dancer.

That is just one story.....out of many others.

My mother is the one who taught me to open doors, hold coats, and do all that good manners, how to treat a lady stuff. She taught me by example and how she insisted my Dad treat her. I remember her sitting in the car one day waiting for my Dad to come back outside and open her car door. He forgot to do that.....I tried to open her door and she barked at me and said NO that is your father's job. I went in the house and told Daddy he best go open her car door.....He kinda gasped and ran out the door and opened her car door. My mother was a role model.

[Turtle]

Things happen in our lives and we think, "I'll never do THAT again" or "I sure want to do that better." We learn from others - good and bad.

I seek to heal, to leave the world a better place, to bridge communities, to apologize when I screw up, to love wherever I can, to welcome into community - I always have an empty chair in the circle to be welcoming of all comers...

I am responsible for the way I behave and I do not choose to tell people to leave because I know I would be told to leave "their" place. How we learn from each other's identity place is relevant.

Once upon a time, I was in a bar playing a video game with an older man. I was winning. He didn't take it very well. I lost on purpose, then I felt shitty about it and swore to my self that I would never have my femaleness defer to a maleness like that again. This is some of how I have learned to be me.

And no, I don't think someone should let their boat flood and sink to protect some dipshit's butch "pride," just like I'm not not ever gonna lose on purpose for somebody else's fragile ego again.

Do I want to talk about zebras in a car thread - no. But identity formation, figuring out who we are and how we move in the world is complicated with a lot of overlapping areas...and some people might even do some "switching" in the navigating of who and how they want to be when.

And I'm up for the discussion of that and all it entails.

[Okiebug61]

Has anyone read any of the works by Esther Newton. I find her to be wonderfully honest and intellectually stimulating. She has written articles about being butch and the body image issues. She is not afraid to put controversial things in writing so you have to have a very open mind into her definitions.

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/women/faculty/facbio.asp?ID=43

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Has anyone read any of the works by Esther Newton. I find her to be wonderfully honest and intellectually stimulating. She has written articles about being butch and the body image issues. She is not afraid to put controversial things in writing so you have to have a very open mind into her definitions.

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/women/faculty/facbio.asp?ID=43

No but thanks for the information. I'll be sure to check it out.

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Has anyone read any of the works by Esther Newton. I find her to be wonderfully honest and intellectually stimulating. She has written articles about being butch and the body image issues. She is not afraid to put controversial things in writing so you have to have a very open mind into her definitions.

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/women/faculty/facbio.asp?ID=43

She was my intro to gay & lesbian studies and Gay & Lesbian studies Jr/Sr seminar professor. She wears her butch identity with pride every day and is DEFINITELY not afraid to speak out against things she does not agree with and find oppressive. She and I use different definitions of "butch", and we butted heads from time to time (I was butch presenting when I took her lectures), but her knowledge and conviction is astounding. She presented some interesting thoughts on being butch and aging, too.

[StoneOne]

I will read on I have felt and tried to deal with all of this and it feels good to talk about it...........

[StoneOne]

talked about the bathroom issues ?
Good God I walk into any public bathroom and everyone stops and stares then they go look to see what the sign says thinking they walked into the wrong room and then I get Syr your in the wrong bathroom not sure what to do with this or how to feel or just feel nothing at all............... OMG it is sometimes funny to see the group of women stuck in their footsteps bogged .......
can I just say I'm sexy and I know it LMAO the m&m ad

[Heavenleahangel]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

talked about the bathroom issues ?
Good God I walk into any public bathroom and everyone stops and stares then they go look to see what the sign says thinking they walked into the wrong room and then I get Syr your in the wrong bathroom not sure what to do with this or how to feel or just feel nothing at all............... OMG it is sometimes funny to see the group of women stuck in their footsteps bogged .......
can I just say I'm sexy and I know it LMAO the m&m ad

I have been in this same situation when I was with my ex. When we went out, hy avoided the restrooms at all cost, except Wal-Mart which has the "family restroom" in the back. Of course then I had to remind the pervert the family restroom is not for *trying to create a family*!!!! Hy always had that devilish grin that sait "It didn't hurt to try!"

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

talked about the bathroom issues ?
Good God I walk into any public bathroom and everyone stops and stares then they go look to see what the sign says thinking they walked into the wrong room and then I get Syr your in the wrong bathroom not sure what to do with this or how to feel or just feel nothing at all............... OMG it is sometimes funny to see the group of women stuck in their footsteps bogged .......
can I just say I'm sexy and I know it LMAO the m&m ad

I'm sorry you are being stereo typed. A new trend we have here in Oklahoma which I am sure is not a first is family bathrooms. I love it. It truly helps those who do not fit the worlds view of men and women have an option where going to the freaking bathroom is not such an issue. I frankly am more worried about a clean stall than who is using it.

[StoneOne]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

I'm sorry you are being stereo typed. A new trend we have here in Oklahoma which I am sure is not a first is family bathrooms. I love it. It truly helps those who do not fit the worlds view of men and women have an option where going to the freaking bathroom is not such an issue. I frankly am more worried about a clean stall than who is using it.

I would give anything for a butch restroom ... as we change everyday becoming who we are suppose to be it gets harder to be part of the "public" vision . I could pass enough to use the mens restroom but ......that really does not feel right. I have not seen the family restroom as of yet but I will keep my eyes open. My guess is the "public" may view it as the mom with 5 kids and that would be a sight to see lmao as I go into use the restroom and there are 3 familys 14 kids saying mom why is that man in here?? Thanks for having my back on the stereotyped

[StoneOne]

weird is using the restroom at work.................

[clay]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

I would give anything for a butch restroom ... as we change everyday becoming who we are suppose to be it gets harder to be part of the "public" vision . I could pass enough to use the mens restroom but ......that really does not feel right. I have not seen the family restroom as of yet but I will keep my eyes open. My guess is the "public" may view it as the mom with 5 kids and that would be a sight to see lmao as I go into use the restroom and there are 3 familys 14 kids saying mom why is that man in here?? Thanks for having my back on the stereotyped

this isuue does have its humor....at times...may as well see the sunny side of it, right? in SC there are also the "family" BR's. They generally only have two adult sized toilets and a smaller kiddie size toilet. So is only for one "family" use at a time..no room for 14 at once..lol..GA and Fla has them, and the rest areas along I 95 as well..they are awesome, and much cleaner! The ones here have kids' artworks on the tiles on walls and around toilets! They have a low sink and hand dryer for them...so Okie they are out there...and actually pretty clean. The truck stops with the restaurants have them...so are relaly clean for most part.

[ruffryder]

I mostly use the guys rest room. They give a shit less.. Ha ha! <not what I meant>
Less looks. Just shows guys don't really care whats all around them. Get in, do the damn business, get out. Should be that simple. Maybe its a good thing women are aware of their surroundings? ..with freaks in this world such as peeping toms..when I do choose womens restroom I do tend to get looks, people looking to make sure its womens room, someone saying excuse me you're in the wrong room, blah, blah, blah.. Be nice to have Trans restrooms I guess. I adore the ones with no female/male sign.

[Turtle]

...that over the years I have spoken with plenty of people who dramatically changed their personal presentation to the world (or in their home) at some time or another....and some have changed how they present many times.

For me, I so always felt like a boy when I was young, knew I wasn't a boy, wanted to be a boy, and did the best I could in my circumstance....I can hardly imagine what would have been different if I had gotten those tighty-whiteys and black high-tops ;-)

And as life went on and I made sense of things or rejected them I grew into the new a different me.

And I still am...

...this granbaby thing has kinda fucked with how male I feel. "Granpa" does not feel right, "granma" does...I am still working on making peace with that.

BUTCH? FEMME? I am definitely butch. I am definitely not femme. The rest of me is up for discussion...I like hearing ideas that are different and often better than mine - for me, it is not a crime to change my mind about something.

Some folks have told me they would like to post here and that they don't want to get jumped on. I sure wish people would feel like they can express their thoughts constructively here without fear of criticism.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Turtle

... Some folks have told me they would like to post here and that they don't want to get jumped on. I sure wish people would feel like they can express their thoughts constructively here without fear of criticism.

I think whomever is wanting to post should do so. Each of our thoughts and ideas bring something different to the table. We will never all agree but dang it no one should feel threatened because of bully attitudes. So tell your folks to come over and participate in the conversation. I for one want to hear what they have to say.

[ButchEire]

My reaction to anyone who questions my presence in any restroom is to look them in the eye and say "excuse me?" My not-so-hidden meaning is to infer "Really? You have all the time in the world to worry about who is in the restroom?" After many years of ME getting embarrassed when I was younger, I decided that if someone indeed DID walk into the wrong restroom, who gives a f**k? Restrooms are there to get your business done and get out, not to socialize. Clearly also, it's UNLIKELY that someone would venture into the "wrong" restroom, so people are getting caught up in something that isn't probable.

[Parker]

Yeah, I dont give a fuck about people staring at me in the bathrooms anymore either. Hell, I have had women physically try to keep me out of the bathroom, thinking I was a man (I was about to offer to show her my tits when she realized her mistake and let me pass). Usually, I just ignore everyone, do my thing, and get out; but if they want to stare at me, I'll stare right back - after a pretty obvious look down at my rather large breasts for effect.

I am not male ID'd or trans &/or trying to pass, so I wouldnt use the men's bathroom unless it was the only one available &/or it was some sort of a bathroom emergency .... I dont want to spend time in their stinky, nasty bathrooms unless I absolutely have to!


Oh, and speaking of family bathrooms, the VA here has women, men, and unisex bathrooms all over the place - I think in large places and newly built places it might start becoming the "norm."

[~ocean]

Us femmes have it soo easy , ((((((( hugs all of u butchs )))))))


your bodys r measured by a tailor (tailorette ) and ur mind is measured by ur soul : the soul is endless..