Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Parker

LOL

Probably from hovering over the bowl so as to avoid touching the seat and catching imaginary diseases.

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

A friend once caught ringworm from a toilet seat. Just sayin'.

My aim is true.

[Okiebug61]

I'm curious to know where those who have had trouble using a public restroom live. I am in the only totally Red State and while there are and always will be issues. I have never seen these vicious things happen. It's totally disturbing and if nothing else knowing the locations will help me keep an open eye if I ever visit any of the said locations.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

I'm curious to know where those who have had trouble using a public restroom live. I am in the only totally Red State and while there are and always will be issues. I have never seen these vicious things happen. It's totally disturbing and if nothing else knowing the locations will help me keep an open eye if I ever visit any of the said locations.

I dont think it's limited to any specific locations - I've lived in a lot of different states (IL, OK, CO, CA, MS, WA) and driven through even more on my way to one place or another and I've encountered everything from stares, to shocked looks while they check the sign on the door, to stopping their friend or security to say loudly that "there's a man in there", to saying something directly to me, to physically trying to keep me from entering.


Also, the urge to lift one's shirt in an effort to be seen as the woman that you are is a natural urge. Would I have really done it? No, of course not. But the urge is still there because I belong there just as much as any woman does - it's my space too; and the fact that it's considered a safe space for feminine looking women but not masculine looking women is sad to me. That's really all I had on that issue.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Parker

...I belong there just as much as any woman does - it's my space too; and the fact that it's considered a safe space for feminine looking women but not masculine looking women is sad to me...

I don't think public restrooms are designated or designed as a safe space--In most cases they're designed to satisfy building codes and to be a place to relieve yourself as quickly as possible.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by apretty

I don't think public restrooms are designated or designed as a safe space--In most cases they're designed to satisfy building codes and to be a place to relieve yourself as quickly as possible.

I understand that - I was working off of & responding to the post that mentioned that - I probably should have quoted it but was being lazy.

[Toughy]

Like Okie if I am in NM or TX or OK or any of the ranch country I rarely get called Sir and rarely get the 'OMG a man is in our potty room'. I think the ques for woman are different in farm/ranch land......lots of masculine women who are straight in those parts of the world. Seeing a woman in work boots, cowboy boots, jeans, hats is not unusual.

Years back, I was in an airport and went into the ladies room. This woman followed me in yelling at me that this was the women's bathroom. I just ignored her and went into a stall. She started banging on the door to the stall................serious folks.....she started banging on the door. The banging stopped, I finished and washed my hands and went out the door. Well, a security guard was standing outside the door with this woman. He looked at me and asked why I went in the ladies room. I looked at him and said that I belonged in that bathroom and walked off. At least he didn't follow me after that. On the trip back in that same airport I went in the same ladies room and some woman looked at me and told me I was in the wrong bathroom. I looked at her and pulled up my shirt and showed her my tits (I haven't worn a bra since high school). she turned about 100 shades of red and started apologizing. I ignored her and did my business and left.

I get it once in a while at the VA, but it's usually if someone sees me from behind and when I turn around they apologize. Military folks also seem to have a different set of ques for women and are not likely to mistake me for a man.

I always wonder if they think I can't read and recognize the sign for women vs men. It never has made any sense to me. And if I am already in there...it's like I know the difference between the mens room and the ladies room............mens potty has urinals and the womens does not.

As to safety..............oh please it's a damn bathroom and what about MY safety to be able to walk in a bathroom without all that crap.

anyway.....I'm rambling..........

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Parker

Probably from hovering over the bowl so as to avoid touching the seat and catching imaginary diseases.

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

"If you sprinkle when you tingle, please be neat and wipe the seat".

- Sign humorously posted in Dapper's grandmother's bathroom.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

"If you sprinkle when you tingle, please be neat and wipe the seat".

- Sign humorously posted in Dapper's grandmother's bathroom.

Ooops! I meant tinkle! (thanks Ezee).

[Jess]

I always wonder why every conversation regarding being butch and self image goes to the toilet.

I think at least for me, because it is that one place out in the world that constantly reminds me of just how "different" I am from "most" women. My hair is different.. my clothes are different, my demeanor is definitely different and it is a rarity that it is not pointed out to me when I step into a multi-stalled bathroom.

My struggles with body image started so early on that I can't even pinpoint when or how it began. My mom tells me of my crying myself to sleep when I was three because I couldn't pee out of my belly button. Apparently I saw my dad standing up to pee and thought that must be how you do it.

I have body dysphoria/ gender dysphoria in that I truly have a disconnect in "loving" the package I came in. It is a hard thing to describe as I don't necessarily want to change genders, I just don't deal well with the "norms" society has placed on mine. I am a masculine entity, no doubt and being in a visually female shell has been a very interesting thing to say the least.

I struggle with my size at times. I have a small frame and for many being small is equated to being weak. Many only view larger butches as "real" butches. For some , yes, size does matter.. LOL. It's hard to bulk up as the female body distributes weight differently and requires much more focused exercise to put mass in the "right" areas. Well, frankly, I am getting older and unless a miracle happens, that just isn't gonna work. I am by no means a weak person and I know this clearly. However, when it comes down to "body image" , I can allow myself to buy into the BS a little too often.

I am learning not to compare myself in the negative. I am learning to look at other butches clearly and when I do compare it is about internal issues. It is about whether or not they exemplify traits I respect or not. This is how I am seeing role models or folks I want to avoid. I tend to keep people at arms length and am trying to allow a few more in. Slowly and very selectively. I am reading people on different levels than I have in the past and am able to see beyond whatever facades or armor we put up and that is how I am seeing myself more clearly. I am not ready to put down my own shields.. and honestly, I know that only a handful of people will ever truly "know" me or my struggles. my insecurities.. or my true strengths.

I am not sure how many other butches feel similar, but I know for me it can be a painfully lonely path at times. It can also be an incredible journey living this life in the body we were given and helping other folks see beyond it. It is fraught with obstacles almost daily. I just keep moving through them. I hope everyone else does too. I know we have lost so many butch women to depression, angst, suicide, isolation and it breaks my heart. There are times when the world gets really ugly and all we can do is look to one another for the encouragement to keep on keeping on. I hope to be that encouragement.

Thanks for the topic.

[Jett]

I am highly "butch" (adjective) on the inside, always have been. I am also highly woman on the inside... and the flow of the two feels seamless to me dawn to dusk. On the outside I have my happy places, which may include a suit or tux- in addition to my long hair and makeup. I have a wicked hourglass figure that I hide in no way... it's just the way it is, I like it. I don't do cutesy, frilly or dresses though, guess it's just not my thing.

None of it feels like drag for me, or off limits... I just do what feels right. I spent most of my life under the pressure of others expectations, including my own... and I have to say now is screw it all cause I'm free, and it feels like friggen Nirvana...

No matter what you do... somebody's not going to be happy with it... so you might as well make yourself happy and well then after that... who the hell cares?

[tara_kerrie]

This is a great thread for me. I am currently looking for myself and my place in this world. I thought that I had found myself but I was wrong.
I think of myself as a "butch" but there are many "doubts" right now.
I have enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this matter and look forward to reading more.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

and what amazes me is the baby changing station.

Okie it doesn't matter where you are because narrow minded stupid people are everywhere. I've been with a butch twice when the bathroom thing happened.. once in Oregon and once in Alabama. Both times my partner was confronted by males who made snide comments about the butch being in the *wrong bathroom* as they exited or entered and in a completely confrontational manner.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Okie it doesn't matter where you are because narrow minded stupid people are everywhere. I've been with a butch twice when the bathroom thing happened.. once in Oregon and once in Alabama. Both times my partner was confronted by males who made snide comments about the butch being in the *wrong bathroom* as they exited or entered and in a completely confrontational manner.

I was just curious. Being from Oklahoma we don't have a lot of positive things going on for our community. Red and I went see Melissa E a few years back and I saw more Lesbians in one place than I had seen in years. There were many hard core butches and I never once saw anyone having problems with the bathroom issue. Maybe I don't keep my eyes open well enough,for I would not stand by and let this happen If I were present. It just saddens me when someone has to be nervous, scared or anything else when they need to go to the bathroom.

[Dude]

I geuss for me, I dont take it so personal anymore.
Of course it's awkward and I'd prefer that it did not happen but
It's not really my issue how someone interprets my gender.
Showing someone proof of what I am is not a natural urge ,for me.

Let's say grandma and maybe your neice were in stalls 3 and 4 ,
someone enters bathroom who you read as male.
What would your response be to them?
Have I been offended and embaressed? yes ,of course
I had one lady peek over the stall even.

To me what is "totally disturbing" is being beaten because then
it is personal. I think it would be interesting to do a poll on the
areas in which this has happened to people.
I feel fortunate to have only once experienced some teenage
kids screaming queers out their window while walking with a girlfriend
down the street 20 years ago.