Femme Invisibility?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by 1QuirkyKiwi

This explains why I get a lot of interest from other Femmes. No offence is intended towards Butch’s when I say this; the ‘signals’ that I send out and maybe many of you Femmes who are seen as straight are far too subtle for them to pick up! It seems we need the 4x4s that Cajun dee has suggested! LOL!

There’s a new business venture; Cajun dee’s Butch Attention Grabbers! LOL!

Originally Posted by JAGG

Well if it makes you feel any better, we wish we knew too. Sure would make things easier.

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

You know Gemme i think maybe you are on to something. I don't want to speak for "them" as i know you don't want to either, but it is sorta the vibe i get as well.

I know that i notice everything, everybody and am in tune to the background noise because it is relatively benign to me, being somewhat invisible as being gay. I only have to be "on guard" when i'm with my partner and get those claws out, willing and ready to kick A if needed. I'm thinking if i was always like that, had been in that situation continuously for years like that, that maybe i would tone out the background and get to the point that i didn't give a flying flip and in doing so, could potentially not "see" someone that was family.

So, if someone was doing that and a femme happened to smile at them, they may not see that anymore than they may see a hateful glare.

I don't know but it sorta makes sense to me when i think about it. I hope some more butches/masculine peeps would care to elaborate on this.



That is a really cool way to see it. Thanks for sharing that.

[clay]

I will share my own opinion....and it is MINE alone...I am not speaking to, about, or alluding to anyone except ME!!! grins..
When I am out and about, I am not out there, cruising, looking, flirting, or any of that...I may be grocery shopping, dining out, or any such daily kinds of things...so if a femme (s) is in my immediate area, since I am not "looking" then, yes she/they may very well be a part of the landscape, so to speak. If one should flirt with me, I would wink back, smile, or such. However if I am with a date, a partner, or a S.O...then I would never be so disrespectful to that person I am with. So, again, the femme (s) would be invisible....so to speak...
I am NOT oblivious to any beautiful person...be it whatever gender...and there is nothing wrong with appreciating anyone's beauty...when done with respect...for self, for S.O., and the other person....I DO notice my background and space..and am constantly aware of things, people, and places...that comes from 21 yrs. of being an ER Nurse..you have to see all, know all, and be cognizant of this.
I guess for me, I am only recently aware of this "invisibility" to our community. About a year ago, I was dating a femme...and when we went out in public, it was very obvious I am "butch" and gay...but not so with her..only when she was out with me....we could be in a grocery store..and women...would grin at me or wink at me, or even turn around..some women even whistled at me as I walked past....I said "gee, what is that all about"? She said well it is obvious you are butch, but it is not obvious I am a lesbian unless I am out with you or any other butch (I know women go out with other genders BUT I am referring to butch only here as I am butch ID.'ed)...otherwise I am invisible. It was then I became aware of it. I totally understand what you ladies are saying, and I "get" it.
An example that comes to mind is this...ok, someone is a superhero...who dons regular clothes in day time and wears a superhero costume at night...if seen by anyone in daily wear...one wouldn't know they are a superhero...BUT come night, the costume is donned..and you KNOW that is a superhero..visible ONLY by the costume, otherwise unkown....now I want to say, this in NO WAY means femmes to don a superhero costume, NOR do I see you in one..this is a generic example...and in no way deflects anything except an example...trying to make my point.
BUT let me say this...for those of you who feel invisible....you are NOT, to me anyway, because I can feel you, sense you, and I KNOW the feminine mystique, the feminine power, and I respect that..on so many levels...and I "get" it. I will always acknowledge the greatness, the power of you, and respect it. Don those cute little "femme" necklaces, the forehead tattoos, or whatever else you want to...BUT I don't ever need a 2x4...I will SEE you..I will hear you roar, and I will respect YOU ALL...you are after all, a WOMAN first and foremost! You are ALL visible, all beautiful, and all that I need in my world...xoxoxo...Clay...

[Christy51274]

Originally Posted by claybaby

I will share my own opinion....and it is MINE alone...I am not speaking to, about, or alluding to anyone except ME!!! grins..
When I am out and about, I am not out there, cruising, looking, flirting, or any of that...I may be grocery shopping, dining out, or any such daily kinds of things...so if a femme (s) is in my immediate area, since I am not "looking" then, yes she/they may very well be a part of the landscape, so to speak. If one should flirt with me, I would wink back, smile, or such. However if I am with a date, a partner, or a S.O...then I would never be so disrespectful to that person I am with. So, again, the femme (s) would be invisible....so to speak...
I am NOT oblivious to any beautiful person...be it whatever gender...and there is nothing wrong with appreciating anyone's beauty...when done with respect...for self, for S.O., and the other person....I DO notice my background and space..and am constantly aware of things, people, and places...that comes from 21 yrs. of being an ER Nurse..you have to see all, know all, and be cognizant of this.
I guess for me, I am only recently aware of this "invisibility" to our community. About a year ago, I was dating a femme...and when we went out in public, it was very obvious I am "butch" and gay...but not so with her..only when she was out with me....we could be in a grocery store..and women...would grin at me or wink at me, or even turn around..some women even whistled at me as I walked past....I said "gee, what is that all about"? She said well it is obvious you are butch, but it is not obvious I am a lesbian unless I am out with you or any other butch (I know women go out with other genders BUT I am referring to butch only here as I am butch ID.'ed)...otherwise I am invisible. It was then I became aware of it. I totally understand what you ladies are saying, and I "get" it.
An example that comes to mind is this...ok, someone is a superhero...who dons regular clothes in day time and wears a superhero costume at night...if seen by anyone in daily wear...one wouldn't know they are a superhero...BUT come night, the costume is donned..and you KNOW that is a superhero..visible ONLY by the costume, otherwise unkown....now I want to say, this in NO WAY means femmes to don a superhero costume, NOR do I see you in one..this is a generic example...and in no way deflects anything except an example...trying to make my point.
BUT let me say this...for those of you who feel invisible....you are NOT, to me anyway, because I can feel you, sense you, and I KNOW the feminine mystique, the feminine power, and I respect that..on so many levels...and I "get" it. I will always acknowledge the greatness, the power of you, and respect it. Don those cute little "femme" necklaces, the forehead tattoos, or whatever else you want to...BUT I don't ever need a 2x4...I will SEE you..I will hear you roar, and I will respect YOU ALL...you are after all, a WOMAN first and foremost! You are ALL visible, all beautiful, and all that I need in my world...xoxoxo...Clay...

@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

[kannon]

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Originally Posted by kannon

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

They really DO have apps for everything, why not this??

(wondering how, and in what manner, all us Femmes will be 'tagged". Will it be a small, under-the-skin GPS tracker?)

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by ArkansasPiscesGrrl

They really DO have apps for everything, why not this??

(wondering how, and in what manner, all us Femmes will be 'tagged". Will it be a small, under-the-skin GPS tracker?)

We could just install the app and keep our phones on us. It could work like "searching/listening" does for Bluetooth.

[Christy51274]

Originally Posted by kannon

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

What a novel idea, Kris. If you ever get one developed, I get first dibs!

[FemmeAllae]

Originally Posted by kannon

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

Brilliant!

[clay]

Originally Posted by Christy51274

@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

Hi Christy:
I am the lucky one here...grins! She is absolutely amazing!!! So many tried to win her heart BUT I had the winning card....smiles!!! She has been elusive for about 8 years....smiles!
I am touched by your post. I write from my heart..and I am one Big Butch who KNOWS that it is the femme who makes me who I am!!!
Have a wonderful weekend yourself...and enjoy the Planet.
If I can ever help you with anything, feel free to ask....enjoy the evening yourself...smiles...Clay

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by Christy51274

@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

Thank you Christy...i am indeed one lucky femme to have such a completely kind, respectful,well mannered and loving partner...i am constantly in awe of this amazing person the Universe blessed this undeserving child with...

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

Yes I think this is very true Gemme. Many of us learn to tune out others' reactions to us as a coping mechanism. It just makes life easier to tune out and not care so much what people think of us. So when a femme is trying to get our attention or give us a smile or something it may not necessarily be that we don't recognize you are femme, but that we just don't notice someone is paying attention to us.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

I think that is partially true, at least for some of us.

I make eye contact, if I get that smile Jo talks about in return then I know. But if I make eye contact and I get nothing back, then I just go about my day.

I do not walk looking down, on the contraire, I always walk with my head up high, but I do tune out a lot of the background noise as I go about my life.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I came out at the age of 49. I was the absolute PICTURE of "invisibility"!! My first gf was very butch, and I only ever felt like I was seen and perhaps recognized as family when I was with her. I plastered my car with Pride bumper stickers, just to get SOMEONE to recognize...no, ACKNOWLEDGE me! I cut my hair short, spiked it up, cause I thought that might make me look more "gay". *grinning....sheesh!*

So now, 11 yrs later, I still am invisible. I don't know if it is my age that does that, or what. Yeah, I still have the short spiked hair (well, it spikes sometimes!) But even when I am around family, I STILL get questioned on being a Femme!! Had a couple of friends over tonite, and one of them (she looks very butch, but swears she isn't) asked me, quite seriously, on whether I was Butch or Femme! I could not believe it!

As for the idea of catching a Butch's eye and winking, there is no way in the world I could do that! I have smiled at them, even gave a little nod, but nothing.

[Quintease]

Yeah, I'll never forget walking hand in hand with an ex girlfriend. She was quite butch and I... I was just me. A group of lesbians walked past and every one of them gave her the nod. Me? I was just invisible.

I was really not impressed.

[Christy51274]

Originally Posted by Quintease

Yeah, I'll never forget walking hand in hand with an ex girlfriend. She was quite butch and I... I was just me. A group of lesbians walked past and every one of them gave her the nod. Me? I was just invisible.

I was really not impressed.

Wow, I don't know how I'd react to that. Not only is there femme invisibility within the hetero world, it exists withing the queer world as well.