What makes a Butch "Butch"

[~ocean]

~ I cant speak for a butch this is their knowing ~from an admiring femmes point of view ~ a butch from birth;s confidence ~ hys knowing of hymself ~ is the most sexiesttttttttt ~ dayummmmm ~

[Amante]

I'm glad that I came across this thread.

After 15 years of almost exclusively dating very masculine butches - most of whom were to a large degree male-identified - and a few FTMs, I am now with a fully female-identified butch who is what I refer to as my "peacock butch" because of how male peacocks are far more showy and colorful than the females.

I knew even before we met in person that she sometimes wears makeup and sometimes paints her nails, that she sometimes carries a purse and that she buys most of her clothes from the women's section, and while she would never wear a dress or skirt, there are many things that she has worn and still wears that are far from masculine. I honestly wasn't sure at first how I'd react to this: Would I be able to relate to her as a butch if she had on lipstick?!? And I knew before we met that even her sexual expression was different than I was used to, in ways that I won't go into detail, but it left me wondering how I'd be with that.

So this took some seriously getting used to for me, but in the end I was glad to be forced to reexamine my definition of what makes someone butch. Because in all the ways that in the end really matte to ME, she is the butchest butch I've ever been with: In the butch/femme relationship and sexual energy that we have, in how we make love, in how she cares for me and is protective of me without it ever taking away from my own strength, in how in this butch/femme dance she naturally leads while I naturally follow while always being completely equal partners in that dance.

So yes, it was strange and new to me that when we went to the opera last week, along with her slacks and tailored silky blouse she wore a dramatic velvet cape, carried a clutch purse, and wore makeup. But it didn't diminish who she was as a butch one tiny bit, and I was relieved to find myself finally relaxing about my own responses. She loves flashing her colorful feathers and showing off her glorious self, and I love her all the more for her courage to be exactly who she is instead of feeling that she has to conform to a certain standard of dress in order to know that she's butch to the core. SHE knows who she is, and her confidence in that and her comfort in expressing herself in any way she wants (as opposed to if she dressed like that i order to hide) is all it took for me to be completely comfortable with her as my butch.

[mariamma]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

Its not easier. I make an effort and realize the importance of community and love love love my Femme sisters now. Maybe I am too old to be a threat any more, but thats cool. Lol.

Great post!

I love sisterhood! Bonding does seem easier for femmes (minus the catty back-stabbing) which is why I tend to hang with other femmes.
No one has mentioned something obvious to me. We are engendered with masculine or feminine characteristics via the actions of T and E. Ones normal endogenous levels will effect whether or not you have mild or bodacious secondary sex characteristics (butch swagger or wide hips that swing when you walk, etc.).
In this case, yes, butchness will come out the pores. T, E and many other hormones do come out your pores. It's sexy as frak! to a femme like moi and makes me wax girly (I'll even get a high lilt to my speech and laugh).
In closing, I just want to say again....bodacious. Thank you very much.

[Toughy]

I am a young masculine girl....I play bball, soccer, volleyball, softball, track/field....pick a ball and I can play with it..................

I get the masculine part.,....I do really live it.....it lives with me every day with every gesture, movement. I am masculine.....there is no doubt.

Who will help me find my feminine that lives with my masculine?

When I came out, I was blessed to have a femme who loved my masculinity and understood my femininity and helped me put them together.

I will always forever give thanks to her

[rustedrims]

Going to go back a few posts and comment on the hair cut and Butches wearing a dress..I kinda know something about both subjects..

Is a butch any less a butch if they are wearing a dress..??..I say no..My little brother was getting married and my mom,sister and grandma was giving me a real hard time about what i was going to wear..They were pushing me real hard on wearing a dress..I wasnt in the wedding so couldnt i wear what i want..??..Well took it as a dare and me and my girlfriend at the time went shopping for a dress for me..Yep bought one and wore it..I felt out of place so bad that i was very uncomfortable..It seemed like everyone came to the wedding to see if i was going to wear that dress..My girlfriend liked seeing me in it..Couldnt wait till i could take it off..Ok i got the dress and wearing it and my sister makes the comment on how i was walking..REALLY..?..I put the dress on and it still wasnt enough..I cant change the walk/swagger even in a dress..I wasnt any less a Butch in a dress,,just an uncomfortable one..That was about 25-26 years ago..They are still married..

A few years later my older sister was getting married..Here we go again..This time she asked me to be in the wedding..That was quite an ordeal because they were going to get married on my 21st birthday..WHAT.!!.You are going to make me wear a dress on my 21st BIRTHDAY and plan my day according to what you want me to do..Ummm NO.!.I turned down the offer to be in the wedding because of my birthaday and didnt want to wear a dress the whole entire day..On my Birthday.!!.That caused a bunch of trouble..She wouldnt change the wedding day and i wouldnt change my mind..My Butchness was fully entact that day..My other sisters boyfriend took me across the street and bought me my first legal drink while the pictures were being taken..Think we had a few..That was about 20-22 years ago..They are still married..

Yet another wedding..Another sister is getting married..She asked me to be in her wedding and i accepted..We had to wear a light pink dress with a big bow on our a#ses..Not a pretty sight or dress..None of us liked it..It was very low cut and if we bent over far enough you could see all the way to our bellybuttons..Oh yeah flower in our hair..I took that out imediately or as soon as i could..Very uncomfortable and i felt like an idiot..Again i was told to walk like a girl..How can i do that being a butch..??..Anyway it was time to take that dress off..I went out to my car and got my other clothes..Went in the bathroom to change and my grandma was in there..I said i am sorry grandma and that da#n hoop dress went right over my head and on the floor..There i was naked infront of grandma..I felt more comfortable like that than with that dress on..Put on my tightest pair of Levis and my "dress up t-shirt" with my hiking boots..Went out sat with my cousins and said now it is time to drink..My cousin smiled put a cup in front of me and filled that thing up..That marriage was over less than 3 years..{told ya,but what do i know}..

Now the hair..I prefer a little length..When i was little mom forced me to have short hair..It was her decision on how i was to wear my hair not mine..I didnt like the way it looked on me..Thought it made my ears stick out..So i like my hair to cover my ears..Told my hair girl the story and she cuts/trims accordinly..

Now with that being said..Through all those dresses and longer hair..I am still a butch on the inside and able to express it on the outside..No one can change that with a dress..It is what i feel and what i am..I am a Butch woman and very secure with that..

Kinda funny.. A few months ago i had to attend a funeral of a close family member..The kids were taking bets on what i was going to wear..Not a dress this time it was dress pants or the Levis..I picked the Levis and a shirt i ironed..They told me about it and who won..We laughed about it..The kids were not around during the dress time..They do know i will not be wearing a dress at any time even on Halloween..They know i am a Butch and respect that as it is and they dont care how i walk either..Love those kids..

sorry it got kinda long
thanks for reading

s..

[Mr. Cynthia]

Originally Posted by rustedrims

Going to go back a few posts and comment on the hair cut and Butches wearing a dress..I kinda know something about both subjects..

Is a butch any less a butch if they are wearing a dress..??..I say no..My little brother was getting married and my mom,sister and grandma was giving me a real hard time about what i was going to wear..They were pushing me real hard on wearing a dress..I wasnt in the wedding so couldnt i wear what i want..??..Well took it as a dare and me and my girlfriend at the time went shopping for a dress for me..Yep bought one and wore it..I felt out of place so bad that i was very uncomfortable..It seemed like everyone came to the wedding to see if i was going to wear that dress..My girlfriend liked seeing me in it..Couldnt wait till i could take it off..Ok i got the dress and wearing it and my sister makes the comment on how i was walking..REALLY..?..I put the dress on and it still wasnt enough..I cant change the walk/swagger even in a dress..I wasnt any less a Butch in a dress,,just an uncomfortable one..That was about 25-26 years ago..They are still married..

A few years later my older sister was getting married..Here we go again..This time she asked me to be in the wedding..That was quite an ordeal because they were going to get married on my 21st birthday..WHAT.!!.You are going to make me wear a dress on my 21st BIRTHDAY and plan my day according to what you want me to do..Ummm NO.!.I turned down the offer to be in the wedding because of my birthaday and didnt want to wear a dress the whole entire day..On my Birthday.!!.That caused a bunch of trouble..She wouldnt change the wedding day and i wouldnt change my mind..My Butchness was fully entact that day..My other sisters boyfriend took me across the street and bought me my first legal drink while the pictures were being taken..Think we had a few..That was about 20-22 years ago..They are still married..

Yet another wedding..Another sister is getting married..She asked me to be in her wedding and i accepted..We had to wear a light pink dress with a big bow on our a#ses..Not a pretty sight or dress..None of us liked it..It was very low cut and if we bent over far enough you could see all the way to our bellybuttons..Oh yeah flower in our hair..I took that out imediately or as soon as i could..Very uncomfortable and i felt like an idiot..Again i was told to walk like a girl..How can i do that being a butch..??..Anyway it was time to take that dress off..I went out to my car and got my other clothes..Went in the bathroom to change and my grandma was in there..I said i am sorry grandma and that da#n hoop dress went right over my head and on the floor..There i was naked infront of grandma..I felt more comfortable like that than with that dress on..Put on my tightest pair of Levis and my "dress up t-shirt" with my hiking boots..Went out sat with my cousins and said now it is time to drink..My cousin smiled put a cup in front of me and filled that thing up..That marriage was over less than 3 years..{told ya,but what do i know}..

Now the hair..I prefer a little length..When i was little mom forced me to have short hair..It was her decision on how i was to wear my hair not mine..I didnt like the way it looked on me..Thought it made my ears stick out..So i like my hair to cover my ears..Told my hair girl the story and she cuts/trims accordinly..

Now with that being said..Through all those dresses and longer hair..I am still a butch on the inside and able to express it on the outside..No one can change that with a dress..It is what i feel and what i am..I am a Butch woman and very secure with that..

Kinda funny.. A few months ago i had to attend a funeral of a close family member..The kids were taking bets on what i was going to wear..Not a dress this time it was dress pants or the Levis..I picked the Levis and a shirt i ironed..They told me about it and who won..We laughed about it..The kids were not around during the dress time..They do know i will not be wearing a dress at any time even on Halloween..They know i am a Butch and respect that as it is and they dont care how i walk either..Love those kids..

sorry it got kinda long
thanks for reading

s..

Damn, I'm glad I've only got one sister! I didn't wear a dress to her wedding but I did grow out my flat top and wear a women's suit - for my mom, not my sister.

In fact, when I asked my sister if she was gonna want me in a dress for the big day, she laughed out loud and said, "Don't be silly, you'd look ridiculous."

I think she was secretly afraid that the novelty of her big bulldyke sister in a dress would become the one thing everybody remembered about her wedding...

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cynthia

Damn, I'm glad I've only got one sister! I didn't wear a dress to her wedding but I did grow out my flat top and wear a women's suit - for my mom, not my sister.

In fact, when I asked my sister if she was gonna want me in a dress for the big day, she laughed out loud and said, "Don't be silly, you'd look ridiculous."

I think she was secretly afraid that the novelty of her big bulldyke sister in a dress would become the one thing everybody remembered about her wedding...

I was trying to remember how long its been since I was in said dress .. It was at My fathers wedding I did it for him , it was not pretty at all .. I think it looked like a football player in drag ! lol

[rustedrims]

Hey Mr.Cynthia..
The kids are all in their early 20's and would never concider even asking if i was going to wear a dress for any reason..They know i am not going to..Why cant those other people let me be me..It is Levis and a ironed shirt or a Tux for the Grand Ball..Those are the choices..The kids get it..

Billy..
Yeah..Thinking back on those days i am sure i looked like i was in Drag..It will never happen again..If i am invited to share an important day in their lives what difference does it really make what i am wearing..Isnt it important that i show up and share the day with them..No to dresses and still am a Butch inside and out..

About a month ago i had a very important meeting i had to go to..Even still my mom pointed her finger in my face and gave me her opinion on what i should wear..Bascially dont dress like a Butch she was trying to say..Threw the dresses away many years ago so the Levis and a shirt..What i was wearing had no affect on the out come of that meeting..Hummm Really.??.

[Mr. Cynthia]

Originally Posted by Billy

I was trying to remember how long its been since I was in said dress .. It was at My fathers wedding I did it for him , it was not pretty at all .. I think it looked like a football player in drag ! lol

I did drag for Halloween one year- back when I practically lived at the bar. I had some of the girls from work put makeup on me, wore a real wig and a normal outfit. I looked in the mirror and said, "Yeah, I'd buy me a drink."

Nobody recognized me until I clued them in, or moved or spoke. It was fun.

[Leigh]

I just love how every butch is different; no matter how you identify or dress or how you are in general you are a human being and that to me above all else counts the most

[aishah]

Originally Posted by Leigh

I just love how every butch is different; no matter how you identify or dress or how you are in general you are a human being and that to me above all else counts the most

this

i am also grateful for butch diversity. i love all the different ways you have of expressing yourself to the world. you are so handsome and sexy it just floors me. you are seen and loved and respected.