Law and Order: SVU with Special Guest Kathy Griffin as lesbian

[Dylan]

I don't like when straights play queers

Didn't like it in 'Milk', didn't like it on 'Will and Grace', didn't like it on that lesbian Showtime show, didn't like it on that gay Showtime show, and it appears, I won't like it here either.

There's plenty of queers to go around (oh mah lord, even into movies and television!)

It's insulting and privileged and homophobic


I'm Also Bothered By Law And Order SVU...But That's Another Story,
Dylan...crabby about the whole thing

[Cyclopea]

Well....there's a whole lotta buzz about Maristra Harkitray being a big ole closet case. A later-even-than-Jodi coming out situation. But I don't really see it.
What I see is a couple of hets putting on the lezface cluelessly for a bunch of clueless non-lesbians. What is it about lesbianism that makes non-lesbians feel so confident about portraying us, embodying us, exploiting us, co-opting us?

Oh right. The woman thing.

[suebee]

[QUOTE=Cyclopea;58124]Well....there's a whole lotta buzz about Maristra Harkitray being a big ole closet case. A later-even-than-Jodi coming out situation. But I don't really see it.
What I see is a couple of hets putting on the lezface cluelessly for a bunch of clueless non-lesbians. What is it about lesbianism that makes non-lesbians feel so confident about portraying us, embodying us, exploiting us, co-opting us?

Oh right. The woman thing.

QUOTE]

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

[Diavolo]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

Doogie Hoozer (can't think of the guy's real name) is in "How I met your mother" and that boy is gay and out. I'm 100% with you on this one. It's acting.

I think a lot of these shows explore this sort of stuff not for ratings as much as to explore it within the art. The Law and Order franchise does a little of both.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

By having the dominant group portray the oppressed group by 'acting', a number of oppressed groups have been misportrayed throughout centuries.

It was done with women (men playing women, aka drag); it was done with Black people (black face); it's done with differently abled people all the time; and it's now the rage to do it with queers. It's another subtle form of privilege and oppression. It plays off of stereotypes and perpetuates a negative image. It also keeps 'real' queers oppressed, by telling real queers they're not 'good enough' to even play queer. So, now we have hets exploiting and making money off of the queer community even more.




Dylan

[suebee]

Originally Posted by Dylan

By having the dominant group portray the oppressed group by 'acting', a number of oppressed groups have been misportrayed throughout centuries.

It was done with women (men playing women, aka drag); it was done with Black people (black face); it's done with differently abled people all the time; and it's now the rage to do it with queers. It's another subtle form of privilege and oppression. It plays off of stereotypes and perpetuates a negative image. It also keeps 'real' queers oppressed, by telling real queers they're not 'good enough' to even play queer. So, now we have hets exploiting and making money off of the queer community even more.




Dylan

Dylan, they are actors. They act. Inject political agenda into it if you want, but it just doesn't cut it. If Law and Order wants to turn a well-established, well-loved character into an openly gay person, then I'm all for it. It tells people that we're out there. Whether they KNOW they know queer people or not, we're out there, and we're in their lives. It tells them MUCH more than if they introduce another character that they DON'T already know, they DON'T already love, and shows them that our sexual orientation is but ONE aspect of who we are. It's an important aspect, but it makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in how we do our jobs.

Now if you want to argue that an actor shouldn't be discriminated against BECAUSE he or she is gay, then that's a whole 'nother matter. But this thread is about an established character in one of the most popular shows on U.S. television possibly coming out as a lesbian. I fail to see how that's a bad thing, unless she grows a mullet and starts wearing Birkinstocks and insists that her squad car be only a Subaru or a Volvo.

End of mini rant.

[Write14u]

Dylan, I understand what you're saying, but to me, it makes more sense to get the message out (ie, make queers more visibile in positive ways ) -- regardless of with whom.

Do you think Milk would have been as good without someone as dynamic as Penn in that role? I can't think of a queer actor that could have done it that justice.

From that clip of Olivia, it looks like she has a bad reaction, and who knows if she will come out. I don't think she will, but Sue is right -- it will make more of a lasting impression on viewers if it's someone you already know rather than a one-show wonder that you don't invest yourself in. I also think regardless of whether Olivia comes out, I think her attitude will be less hostile because her character is not geared that way.

One example that sticks out for me was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which had two lesbians on it. Willow was a main character from the inception and people went right along with it when she came out and started dating a woman. It meant more than if they had just dropped a dyke in there for a one-two espisode arc.
(On a side note: I would have rather seen the Buffy/Faith characters have at it. *grin* But that's just me having the hots for Eliza Dushku (Faith). )

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Write14u

(On a side note: I would have rather seen the Buffy/Faith characters have at it. *grin* But that's just me having the hots for Eliza Dushku (Faith). )

Faith was way hot. The bdsm Spike/Buffy dynamic was much hotter then the sweet lesbians cuddling on their lacy bed. So dull.

[suebee]

Something that occured to me after I posted: It would be more important in this situation IMO if there were a gay or lesbian writer than actor.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Write14u

I can't think of a queer actor that could have done it that justice.

Do you think that you not being able to name a dynamic queer actor on the level of Sean Penn has to do with the fact that A) a queer actor like that doesn't exist or B) queer actors aren't getting hired to play major roles, because they're gay?


I'm Going With B,
Dylan

[Luckydwg07]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Well....there's a whole lotta buzz about Maristra Harkitray being a big ole closet case. A later-even-than-Jodi coming out situation. But I don't really see it.
What I see is a couple of hets putting on the lezface cluelessly for a bunch of clueless non-lesbians. What is it about lesbianism that makes non-lesbians feel so confident about portraying us, embodying us, exploiting us, co-opting us?

Oh right. The woman thing.

I think she is just a lovely being and a whole latta lesbians wish she was a lesbian. I agree with the lezface lets face it the producers say jump & the actors say how high its a ratings game $$$$ shock-value sells. But no matter we still get air time for better or worse

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I don't like when straights play queers

Didn't like it in 'Milk', didn't like it on 'Will and Grace', didn't like it on that lesbian Showtime show, didn't like it on that gay Showtime show, and it appears, I won't like it here either.

There's plenty of queers to go around (oh mah lord, even into movies and television!)

It's insulting and privileged and homophobic


I'm Also Bothered By Law And Order SVU...But That's Another Story,
Dylan...crabby about the whole thing

Bummer you couldn't appreciate how fucking amazing Sean Penn was in Milk.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Bummer you couldn't appreciate how fucking amazing Sean Penn was in Milk.

I thought he did a great job

However, I don't like when straights play queer. There's plenty of queers who can act...yet here's a straight guy winning an academy award for playing queer. It's insulting to queers. All of the major actors in that movie were straight, and that's bothersome to me.


Dylan

[Write14u]

Hmmm, I tend to get my L&O: SVU on re-runs, but I might have to check this one out live. I looooovvveee Mariska Hargitay. The only person I adore more on the TV screen is Melina Kanakaredes, who plays Stella on CSI:NY. (mmmm).

And just from that bit...wow, they're really setting it up as freaking Olivia out because her reaction doesn't seem typical of her character. (At least what it's showing in that little bit).

Dylan, what don't you like about this show? (Not the specific episode?)

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Write14u

Dylan, what don't you like about this show? (Not the specific episode?)

I'm a huge Law & Order fan, but I think L&OSVU perpetuates violence against women by desensitizing people to rape and violence against women. It's quite bothersome to me.


Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I'm a huge Law & Order fan, but I think L&OSVU perpetuates violence against women by desensitizing people to rape and violence against women. It's quite bothersome to me.


Dylan

I think a lot of television and movies desensitize people to rape and violence against women myself, and it bothers me too. I rarely watch tv and don't watch a lot of violent movies either so my opinion is taken from that perspective.

It doesn't bother me if straight actors play queer parts if the part itself and story line is a good one. If the role/story line is perpetuating stereotypes then having a queer actor really isn't going to do much good.

[Semantics]

Originally Posted by T D

I don't think I like the way that clip ended, but interesting for sure.

There's also a lesbian on Desperate Housewives now. She's an ex stripper/exotic dancer/lap dancer. I found this especially interesting because I've known a number of lesbians who were or are into this same profession. I've never quite understood how that happens, but I know for sure that it does.
We really are in every walk of life

Well, I don't think that many women, queer or straight, go into that profession to find potential dates so I'm not sure what sexuality has to do with it.

[Mister Bent]

I read this whole thread hoping to find out what might be at all compelling in this as a topic.

Maybe we could just talk some more about Meredith Baxter Birney.

[Write14u]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I read this whole thread hoping to find out what might be at all compelling in this as a topic.

Maybe we could just talk some more about Meredith Baxter Birney.

Oh god... let's give the dude his money back (and all 10 minutes it took to flip through this). If you aren't interested...find another thread. It's not rocket science.

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I thought he did a great job

However, I don't like when straights play queer. There's plenty of queers who can act...yet here's a straight guy winning an academy award for playing queer. It's insulting to queers. All of the major actors in that movie were straight, and that's bothersome to me.


Dylan

So what happens when queers play straights? David Hyde Pierce played a straight guy for years. Should he give up that part to a straight guy? Portia de Rossi plays straight parts? Should she refuse these? Jodie Foster? Vin Diesel? Neil Patrick Harris? Should they all refuse straight parts because they are gay?

I don't have a problem with straight people playing gay parts. It wasn't that long ago that straight people were scared to take gay roles because they were afraid of their careers. Famous straight actors taking on high profile gay parts, I think, helps all queers all over the world. Actors are no longer afraid to take on this role. Middle America gets their eyes opened a bit. You don't think Tom Hanks playing that role in Philadelphia helped us all lurch forward politically a few steps? And many of these actors use their time, money and position to support gay rights. I am in no way offended when any straight actor takes a queer role.

Consider this - there might be a lot of die hard Sean Penn fans who went to see Milk because he was in it. They came of the movies with an education about Milk and what he did. THe movie made Milk a person and it showed the long hard road of gay rights activism. Tom Hanks humanized AIDS. People saw that film. Saw Hanks in that film. And it changed many viewpoints about AIDS and the queer community.


Rufus