US Olympic Outfits

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Leaving aside the issues of whether the US team's clothing should be made within the USA and the styles, there's absolutely nothing that is intrinsically superior to clothing (or other goods) manufactured in the USA than any other part of the world.

I've purchased many items of clothing made in lower cost parts of Asia that are of very high quality and, in many instances, much better than most clothing manufactured in the USA (or the UK or continental Europe for that matter).

Are the workers who make these clothes paid well?

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Are the workers who make these clothes paid well?

My post made no reference to the remuneration of clothing employees in Asia - rather, it was to counter a post that implied that items produced in the US were superior to those produced overseas.

Most of us are aware that outsourcing / offshoring is primarily to reduce costs so I'm not going to try to argue that those who work in offshoring roles in Asia are well paid and, similarly, most of us are aware of "sweatshops", poorly regulated, that exist across much of Asia.

That said, last time I looked, many US workers in the garment industry weren't well paid and, furthermore, with the cost of living in the US, you'll find that the quality of lifestyle of many full-time workers in the US is often not much better (and can be worse) than those in comparable roles in much of the developing world (BRIC nations and the Next Eleven).

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

My post made no reference to the remuneration of clothing employees in Asia - rather, it was to counter a post that implied that items produced in the US were superior to those produced overseas.

Most of us are aware that outsourcing / offshoring is primarily to reduce costs so I'm not going to try to argue that those who work in offshoring roles in Asia are well paid and, similarly, most of us are aware of "sweatshops", poorly regulated, that exist across much of Asia.

That said, last time I looked, many US workers in the garment industry weren't well paid and, furthermore, with the cost of living in the US, you'll find that the quality of lifestyle of many full-time workers in the US is often not much better (and can be worse) than those in comparable roles in much of the developing world (BRIC nations and the Next Eleven).

I hear that you are saying that you are aware about the pay and treatment of outsourced workers.

While they are saving money, those savings are not showing up in the costs of these outfits, and we are not saving face in the eyes of the world by participating in giving more jobs to a country who so obviously does not care about their own people, our people, or the environment. In my opinion, by doing this, we are becoming a country of people who doesn't care about our people (jobs, even temporary ones are better than no employment opportunities), their people (workers who are forced to work for pennies, forced to work long hours, threatened, forced to live in unsanitary living quarters...etc...etc), or the environment (we do not hold their factories to the same standards of our own).

Is this the face of America? I hope not. I think it is the face of American Corporate Greed. It is a side of America, but not one that I'd like to see so prominently and shamelessly displayed at the Olympics.

As far as quality goes, I don't need to claim that American made clothing is better than what is produced in any other country. But, I will say that in my experience, most of the clothing I have ever purchased that was made in China, has not been of the best quality, and rarely keeps its shape or color through a few washes.

As a personal choice, I do not want to purchase anything that is made in another country that has something on it about our country. To be clear, I mean that I try not to purchase a Mt St Helen's sweat jacket, that is made in another country. If I want a memory of Washington, I'd like that article of clothing to at least be American made. It just doesn't carry the same memory value otherwise.

Admittedly, I just went into my closet and discovered that I am sometimes a hypocrite when it comes to my choices. I guess I have to work harder at sticking to my guns when it comes to my tourist type purchases.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Hollylane

I hear that you are saying that you are aware about the pay and treatment of outsourced workers.

While they are saving money, those savings are not showing up in the costs of these outfits, and we are not saving face in the eyes of the world by participating in giving more jobs to a country who so obviously does not care about their own people, our people, or the environment. In my opinion, by doing this, we are becoming a country of people who doesn't care about our people (jobs, even temporary ones are better than no employment opportunities), their people (workers who are forced to work for pennies, forced to work long hours, threatened, forced to live in unsanitary living quarters...etc...etc), or the environment (we do not hold their factories to the same standards of our own).

Is this the face of America? I hope not. I think it is the face of American Corporate Greed. It is a side of America, but not one that I'd like to see so prominently and shamelessly displayed at the Olympics.

I think that this is a fair post.

That said, most of the world associates the USA with corporate greed and this isn't something new. The fact that US athletes will wear clothing made in China won't make any difference whatsoever as to how the USA is perceived externally.

Originally Posted by Hollylane

As far as quality goes, I don't need to claim that American made clothing is better than what is produced in any other country. But, I will say that in my experience, most of the clothing I have ever purchased that was made in China, has not been of the best quality, and rarely keeps its shape or color through a few washes.

I spend a lot of money on clothing - much of which is designer labels, relatively expensive and manufactured in lower cost parts of Asia - including Ralph Lauren but the Ralph Lauren experience is by no means unique. Most higher-end fashion labels are also outsourced to lower cost parts of the world. In my experience, there's cheap and nasty, low quality clothing from Asia but, equally, very high quality clothing. Something of an over-simplification but you get what you pay for.

As for cost reduction of any outsourcing being passed on to the end consumer? Of course not. This is because a) it doesn't fit the corporate rationale for outsourcing which is to drive further profitability (i.e. it's about cutting costs, not prices) and b) in practice, outsourcing actually saves very little money as it gives rise to considerable supply chain issues. Ultimately, we're now starting to see a trend against outsourcing with supply chains being brought back into domestic economies.

Originally Posted by Hollylane

As a personal choice, I do not want to purchase anything that is made in another country that has something on it about our country. To be clear, I mean that I try not to purchase a Mt St Helen's sweat jacket, that is made in another country. If I want a memory of Washington, I'd like that article of clothing to at least be American made. It just doesn't carry the same memory value otherwise.

Good luck with this. In my experience, having visited multiple "tourist" locations across the USA, the vast majority of clothing and souvenirs at these places are manufactured overseas and most of it is, in my opinion, nothing more than tatt.

This isn't unique to the USA - it's the same here in the UK too and also continental Europe. You'll find the typical sweat jacket follows a cookie cutter pattern and the only difference being the words inscribed and the colours used .... but they are sourced from the same factories where workers have never been to Mt St Helens, nor would most of them know where it is and, more so, wouldn't care either.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

That said, most of the world associates the USA with corporate greed and this isn't something new. The fact that US athletes will wear clothing made in China won't make any difference whatsoever as to how the USA is perceived externally.

Well....right now 100% of all US military uniforms are made in the USA.... Georgia in fact. I wonder how fast the perception would change if we stayed at home where we belong, and let the rest of the world deal with their own shit while we deal with our corporate greed.

[UofMfan]

The uniforms for the 2002 Winter Olympics, you know the ones Mitt left Bain for and retired "retroactively" from to "save", were made in Burma, which until last year were controlled by a brutal military regime.

See article here.

"According to reports in 2002, the decision to outsource the torchbearer uniforms to Burma caused an uproar among human rights advocates and trade groups. It prompted the head of the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions to write a letter to the International Olympic Committee, stating that "No responsible organization or body should make use of products originating in Burma."

No wonder Candidate Romney has remained silent during this year's controversy.

So yeah, this isn't new. Perhaps what is new is more sources of information are easily available for the average "Joe", without having to actually pick up a newspaper or a magazine to do so.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Well....right now 100% of all US military uniforms are made in the USA.... Georgia in fact. I wonder how fast the perception would change if we stayed at home where we belong, and let the rest of the world deal with their own shit while we deal with our corporate greed.

Ciaran,

I'm apologize if my post had a bit more pepper than I'd intended. It was not aimed at you personally and I can see re-reading it that's exactly what it looks like.

It's very frustrating for me to see Americans step over other Americans that are hungry, homeless, and unemployed to help people that do not want our help or appreciate the efforts. Although the rest of the world may not see it, it matters very much to those that live here where those uniforms are made and this is why....



Detroit is 254 miles from here and it's as if it does not exist and what's happening to the people there does not matter to anyone but them. 254 miles and it could be us....508 miles and it could be St Louis. You see, it means so much more than simply where uniforms are made.

This shit matters

It matters a lot

[Okiebug61]

I will always believe if you provide jobs for people those people will work. I have full faith that our textile industry would have more than stepped up to the plate and made our Olympic uniforms at an affordable price. IMO Ralph Lauren is a joke. His designs are archaic and nothing more than bringing long ago items from different decades and mix matching. A double breasted jacket is a double breasted jacket.

I would have like to seen something funky and fun maybe a throw back from the 70's. OK I am aging myself but seriously the funky clothes rocked!

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Ciaran,

I'm apologize if my post had a bit more pepper than I'd intended. It was not aimed at you personally and I can see re-reading it that's exactly what it looks like.

It's very frustrating for me to see Americans step over other Americans that are hungry, homeless, and unemployed to help people that do not want our help or appreciate the efforts. Although the rest of the world may not see it, it matters very much to those that live here where those uniforms are made and this is why....

Detroit is 254 miles from here and it's as if it does not exist and what's happening to the people there does not matter to anyone but them. 254 miles and it could be us....508 miles and it could be St Louis. You see, it means so much more than simply where uniforms are made.

This shit matters

It matters a lot

No apology is necessary Wolfsong. I understand that there are key issues at play here and it's right and proper that they are debated. The issues are far from being unique to the USA i.e. here in the British Isles, we have similar issues and, whilst I live in London, my home city is Belfast.

Belfast was one of the manufacturing powerhouses from the late 19th century, linen, shipbuilding, heavy industry etc but this has been decimated over the past two generations with much of that due to outsourcing to lower-cost economies.

Similarly, while whole regions of the USA are in economic decline (rust bucket areas, in particular), that's not dissimilar to the UK where economic activity is much lower in the northern part than in the southern part (Greater London)

I'm well aware of Detroit and it's structural issues - in part because I've an interest in some of the revitalisation that occurred in the mid 2000s with some of the great 1920s art deco buildings being revitalised. Of course, short-term urban planning added to by further economic decline has eroded much of this vision.


Therefore, I appreciate the issues that have arisen in this thread and, as I've stated, it's right that they are debated. However, I do disagree with some of the comments that have been made in the thread and, whilst it may not be appreciated by all, I've registered my own point of view to counter what I've taken an exception to.