Misogyny and Sexism in the News

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Absolutely agreeing with what Admin posted here, but also....this is one of those situations that makes my head spin around and my eyes bulge out, because the people who are playing along and enabling this misogynistic, archaic bullshit...are women!

Until women stop flocking to this kind of thing and playing along, how do we get the rest of society to feel any differently?

Serious question.

The article says visitor numbers have soared since implementing this policy. Those visitors aren't just those who come to oogle, but also the women wearing the mini-skirts and allowing themselves to have water thrown on themselves.

WTF.

People drive me crazy sometimes.

I can totally see the sentiment behind this and sometimes feel the same way. At the same time, I feel like its so difficult for people to break free of what's been hammered into them since birth.

It's a complicated situation, especially in a world where women's liberation is still being heavily associated with female sexual objectification in the mainstream. Like the whole "Real Housewives of wherever," who reflect this current mentality of "women have achieved equality" (which they have not), "society is no longer patriarchal" (which it is) and so women need to reclaim their sexuality (which I totally support...female sexuality is still constantly shamed in our societies, and labeled in cis-male-centric terms) by promoting female dependence upon cissexed hetero men for financial stability and validation as human beings (hello, what year is this, people?).

So yes, obviously women participating in these kinds of publicity stunts that use female objectification to make money need to start seeing that reality. I was reading in the newspaper maybe a month ago about a drunk driving ad in Nova Scotia, where the mascot for the ad was an animated woman, obviously very sexualised stereotypical hetero "ideal." The organisation put up signs informing drivers that "she doesn't go for drunk drivers" and other slogans, obviously targeting a hetero male population. Again, sad when you use sexual objectification to tell men not to drink and drive. And what does that say about their approach to drunk driving? Women drive drunk as well, yet how often do you see ads like this targeting women? Stereotypes abound. Yes, women need to wake up and see this as not "just the way things are," but at the same time I think its difficult...when you're told your entire life that this is what is appropriate, "natural," your station in society.

So the question then becomes, how does one promote real, inclusive feminism in the mainstream media, in a society based on capitalist ideals that uses the sexual objectification of women to sell products, ideas, services, or even safe driving? And though this instance in particular occurred in China, we cannot, for a second, maintain that China is not also a heavily capitalist nation. In societies like this that promote traditional cissexed hetero male ideas of "success," those who don't fit the bill will always be the ones used by those in power to make a quick buck.

Sometimes its just overwhelming as far as where to even start

[Kobi]

Jo, Ender, you both raise some interesting points. Is tricky stuff with no easy answers.

Feminism, misogyny, sexism, exploitation, objectification are not one size fits all in every situation kind of thing. The definitions, interpretations, perspectives, are as individual as our queer ids can be.

In one way it is frustrating to see the same institutional patriarchial crap as alive and well today as it was in 1973 when Shirley Chisholm said...the emotional, sexual, and psychological stereotyping of females begins when the doctor says, 'It's a girl'."

In another way, we as women have choices now that we didnt have way back then. We have a right to these choices as well as the implications and consequences of them.

The most difficult for me to deal with is the sometimes fine line between what are manifestations of internalized patriarchal bullshit versus what is deliberate, calculated, informed individual choice.

The second most difficult is having the negative stuff being done to women, out there, whether it be in the media, in the workplace, in relationships, in economics, in parenting etc. being replicated within our own community. That just really bites.

I dont have any answers. I just never expected to be dealing with the same stuff and more in my 50's as I did in my 20's. It is discouraging and aggravating and tiring to have to address this over and over and over again.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Jo, Ender, you both raise some interesting points. Is tricky stuff with no easy answers.

Feminism, misogyny, sexism, exploitation, objectification are not one size fits all in every situation kind of thing. The definitions, interpretations, perspectives, are as individual as our queer ids can be.

In one way it is frustrating to see the same institutional patriarchial crap as alive and well today as it was in 1973 when Shirley Chisholm said...the emotional, sexual, and psychological stereotyping of females begins when the doctor says, 'It's a girl'."

In another way, we as women have choices now that we didnt have way back then. We have a right to these choices as well as the implications and consequences of them.

The most difficult for me to deal with is the sometimes fine line between what are manifestations of internalized patriarchal bullshit versus what is deliberate, calculated, informed individual choice.

The second most difficult is having the negative stuff being done to women, out there, whether it be in the media, in the workplace, in relationships, in economics, in parenting etc. being replicated within our own community. That just really bites.

I dont have any answers. I just never expected to be dealing with the same stuff and more in my 50's as I did in my 20's. It is discouraging and aggravating and tiring to have to address this over and over and over again.

It's frustrating. Society constantly goes through these phases of becoming more progressive before sending people back 50 years.

I'm not sure it really is a deliberate, calculated, informed choice. How informed is it? Yes, everyone has a right to a choice, but at the same time we can't ignore the social realities that inform that choice. In many ways this parallels the niqab debate in many Western nations...claiming that women have the "choice" and that they shouldn't be permitted to wear the niqab in places like schools and work places. So yes, the woman might have a "choice," but the choice is to defy your upbringing, your family, your culture as you were raised to understand it or be shunned from the rest of society (education, jobs etc.) While perhaps less extreme, the "choice" can be similar for many women in various societies. You are brought up to see yourself a certain way...and if you do something radical according to your culture...no longer subscribe to gendered norms or sexual norms (not talking necessarily about queer/trans community here) you still might have much to lose, if not what little privilege conformity gives you in society.

And what if you don't even question it?

At what point is that "choice" not so much a choice as a reaction to social programming...as is everything. We are all socially programmed and no choice we make is ever divorced from that. It just depends on whether we challenge it or conform to it.

I believe we all should have a right to make a choice except in the instances where it brings direct harm to other human beings. Yet in many respects these choices, as extensions of how these behaviours will affect how these women interact with other generations of women (namely younger women and girls), do do damage.

And if these choices are extensions of upbringing and social expectations, how do societies provide room for them while also making sure that future generations of children are not brought into such a world of gendered social expectations or into a world where it is deemed "the way things are" to sexually objectify half the population based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men.

All I know is the world is seriously too fucked up

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

It's frustrating. Society constantly goes through these phases of becoming more progressive before sending people back 50 years.

I'm not sure it really is a deliberate, calculated, informed choice. How informed is it? Yes, everyone has a right to a choice, but at the same time we can't ignore the social realities that inform that choice. In many ways this parallels the niqab debate in many Western nations...claiming that women have the "choice" and that they shouldn't be permitted to wear the niqab in places like schools and work places. So yes, the woman might have a "choice," but the choice is to defy your upbringing, your family, your culture as you were raised to understand it or be shunned from the rest of society (education, jobs etc.) While perhaps less extreme, the "choice" can be similar for many women in various societies. You are brought up to see yourself a certain way...and if you do something radical according to your culture...no longer subscribe to gendered norms or sexual norms (not talking necessarily about queer/trans community here) you still might have much to lose, if not what little privilege conformity gives you in society.

And what if you don't even question it?

At what point is that "choice" not so much a choice as a reaction to social programming...as is everything. We are all socially programmed and no choice we make is ever divorced from that. It just depends on whether we challenge it or conform to it.

I believe we all should have a right to make a choice except in the instances where it brings direct harm to other human beings. Yet in many respects these choices, as extensions of how these behaviours will affect how these women interact with other generations of women (namely younger women and girls), do do damage.

And if these choices are extensions of upbringing and social expectations, how do societies provide room for them while also making sure that future generations of children are not brought into such a world of gendered social expectations or into a world where it is deemed "the way things are" to sexually objectify half the population based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men.

All I know is the world is seriously too fucked up

I agree with you. We seem to share a common paradigm. Your words are my words. Your thoughts are my thoughts. Except when they arent. Sometimes, I see things differently when my values, morals, paradigm and life conflict in ways I dont expect. I have to adjust, adapt, make choices, change perspectives etc.

There is a distinct difference, it seems, between theory and real life. Lots of things work in theory. They dont always work in real life or maybe they dont work in quite the way we expect or maybe they work in various ways for ways people at various times. Is confusing stuff.

The "choice" I was referring to involves individual perspective which may be unknown or just plain foreign to me. Take any act as an example. I might see it as sexist and misogynistic. Someone else might see the partiarchy lurking in it but feel the act was an adaptation to conditions. Someone else might not even acknowledge the patriarchy paradigm, thus they see an act as what is expected or their role in life period and they are very comfortable with that. Someone else might see the patriarchy but their behavior is more geared to exploiting the exploitation for their own benefit. Someone else might see something totally different. Thats diversity.

Wish it was simplier but it isnt. The mere fact something is observed will change its properties. That is scientific fact. Funny thing this life can be.

You also said - "Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men."

We are of the same thinking and paradigm yet I dont limit my perspective to "the desires of cissexed hetero men". To me, it is much broader. It is the appearance or even just the suggestion of masculinity. Social programming runs deep, and there are perks and privileges all along the spectum of real and perceived masculinity.

Being a woman, this never occured to me until I began playing around with how best to word my id so I didnt have to keep explaining it. When I used butch or lesbutchian, I was treated differently. People related to me differently. They flirted with me differently. They "honored" my butchness in ways that were unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me because I am not male id. If I addressed something female i.e. pms, what I said could be miscontrued as a sexist comment rather than a shared female experience - because I wasnt seen as a female. It was a very weird yet enlightening kind of experience.

Of course, now, I just use lesbian and woman. Again, I am treated differently albeit in more familiar and comfortable ways. I am also mistaken for a femme more and this is ok cuz at least I am being seen as a female. And, I dont get as many perks and privileges as I used to. On the other hand, I dont get the feeling people are checking out my crotch anymore either.

Social programming works both ways tho. A femme can say something to me and I dont think twice about it. A male id person can say the exact same thing using the exact words and I want to smack him/hym upside the head. Tricky stuff this programming.

The older I get, the more I appreciate how life teaches us some interesting lessons. It is a journey of creativity not a destination. We are works in progress not a final product. In a lot of ways, it seems to me like we are making it up as we go. Sometimes we do good. Sometimes we dont. Sometimes we do good by accident not intent. Sometimes good intent turns into a unforseen fiasco.

I used to have a lot of answers. Now I have a lot more questions cuz nothing and no one is ever as simple as I would like it or them to be. The older I get, the clearer this becomes.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I agree with you. We seem to share a common paradigm. Your words are my words. Your thoughts are my thoughts. Except when they arent. Sometimes, I see things differently when my values, morals, paradigm and life conflict in ways I dont expect. I have to adjust, adapt, make choices, change perspectives etc.

There is a distinct difference, it seems, between theory and real life. Lots of things work in theory. They dont always work in real life or maybe they dont work in quite the way we expect or maybe they work in various ways for ways people at various times. Is confusing stuff.

The "choice" I was referring to involves individual perspective which may be unknown or just plain foreign to me. Take any act as an example. I might see it as sexist and misogynistic. Someone else might see the partiarchy lurking in it but feel the act was an adaptation to conditions. Someone else might not even acknowledge the patriarchy paradigm, thus they see an act as what is expected or their role in life period and they are very comfortable with that. Someone else might see the patriarchy but their behavior is more geared to exploiting the exploitation for their own benefit. Someone else might see something totally different. Thats diversity.

Wish it was simplier but it isnt. The mere fact something is observed will change its properties. That is scientific fact. Funny thing this life can be.

You also said - "Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men."

We are of the same thinking and paradigm yet I dont limit my perspective to "the desires of cissexed hetero men". To me, it is much broader. It is the appearance or even just the suggestion of masculinity. Social programming runs deep, and there are perks and privileges all along the spectum of real and perceived masculinity.

Being a woman, this never occured to me until I began playing around with how best to word my id so I didnt have to keep explaining it. When I used butch or lesbutchian, I was treated differently. People related to me differently. They flirted with me differently. They "honored" my butchness in ways that were unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me because I am not male id. If I addressed something female i.e. pms, what I said could be miscontrued as a sexist comment rather than a shared female experience - because I wasnt seen as a female. It was a very weird yet enlightening kind of experience.

Of course, now, I just use lesbian and woman. Again, I am treated differently albeit in more familiar and comfortable ways. I am also mistaken for a femme more and this is ok cuz at least I am being seen as a female. And, I dont get as many perks and privileges as I used to. On the other hand, I dont get the feeling people are checking out my crotch anymore either.

Social programming works both ways tho. A femme can say something to me and I dont think twice about it. A male id person can say the exact same thing using the exact words and I want to smack him/hym upside the head. Tricky stuff this programming.

The older I get, the more I appreciate how life teaches us some interesting lessons. It is a journey of creativity not a destination. We are works in progress not a final product. In a lot of ways, it seems to me like we are making it up as we go. Sometimes we do good. Sometimes we dont. Sometimes we do good by accident not intent. Sometimes good intent turns into a unforseen fiasco.

I used to have a lot of answers. Now I have a lot more questions cuz nothing and no one is ever as simple as I would like it or them to be. The older I get, the clearer this becomes.

As far as the bolded text, I'm not sure I entirely agree. While spectrums of masculinity or "suggestions" of masculinity might mean something in the queer world, I don't think it means much in the cis, hetero world. When women are told to run around the media in short skirts and wet clothes as a marketing tool, it's not with the "masculine spectrum" in mind. It's not with butches in mind, masculine women or masculine lesbians in mind, not with masculine transmen who are attracted to woman identities in mind, not with masculine gay men in mind, not with bisexuals or pansexuals in mind. It's for the benefit of cissexed heterosexual men. They are 100% the target audience. It's to catch their attention on something capitalism wants them to consume. The world outside queer communities is still heavily reliant on the binary, and in that world there is really only one official masculinity (hence why we discuss it so damned much in queer communities ), and that is the masculinity of hetero cismen.

That's not me saying that varying perspectives on and responses to masculinity and masculine identities in the queer/trans or lgbtq communities is not valid. It totally is, and I think everyone needs to be aware of the way others might react to them, the way an environment can be made to feel safe or not, inclusive or not. And not only with regards to masculine identities. I think awareness and sensitivity is, more and more, becoming a huge part of those communities. In the rest of the world...not so much.

As far as choice. Yes, again, everyone has the choice and that can be turned into "nothing is right or wrong." But to me, if you have one specific group of people consistently dominating other groups of people throughout human history and dictating acceptable behaviours, practices and ideas and punishing those who don't fall in line...then at some point it's time to think "well gee, I wonder why that is."

The same thing today, there's a reason why the world is still cis, hetero male dominated and why women are consistently put on display and told that's their only real purpose in life.

I agree with you, though, that obviously everyone reacts differently. I was trying to get at that in my first post in response to Jo, but it didn't quite come out well. That's why I'm not a fan of the blame game. Do I think women need to open their eyes and become more aware that this isn't "just the way things are"? Yes! But do I think that not being able to break through a person's upbringing and what's been hammered into them since birth is a reason to blame them? No. Ultimately, society is the problem, and this incessant media and social broken record that claims that feminism has "succeeded enough" and that women can go "back" to being "empowered" through being objectified at every turn.

Obviously it's complicated, and I don't really aim for "theories," so much as trying to work with others to make what ever small changes can be made. But this whole problem is so soaked in to every portion of society. From criminalization, to education, to the workplace, to media geared towards young people, to health care, to personal relationships. I think all you can do is really narrow down the areas of society that have the biggest chance of affecting the way youth grow up in society. So education, health care, the prison system (which should be largely abolished, imo). And hopefully with a change in respect in younger generations, the media will eventually follow. But I don't think its every going to be those with the most power to bring about change that challenge norms..which means we have a long way to go before the media or entertainment industry ever changes with their "Real House Wives of whatever" and reality tv shows telling 8 year olds that they need to dress like Kim Kardashian and be just like her. Fuck, I was looking at this site on infant and toddler "beauty pageants" and nearly vomited. But that's what this shit amounts to, plus a kid that has to grow up thinking that's their only value in the world.

[Kobi]

Ender, I am thinking we are talking the same thing just from a different perspective.

You referenced how the media caters to a certain target audience when it objectifies women. Agreed.

I broadened the topic to how social programming goes so freakin deep that it cuts across the gender/sexual orientation spectrum.

You would think by this point in history we would have a better handle on things. You would also think after 100 years, the freakin ERA would have passed. In 2012, you wouldnt think the GOP and its religious affiliates, including its female members, would be attacking the basic rights of women with such vengence.

I hear you. I agree with you. Very complex, interdependent, interrelated caca poo. (Forgive me, I am still buzzed from the lemon Pledge.)

[DMW]

First, i have to admit that i did not read the article, i only read the post.
I should have been more careful.

Secondly,I totally agree that if the women are being used as some tool in a negative and disrespectul way...that it is wrong...and that people should ban the park.

Hopefully, i will get more time and energy to respond more of what has been posted. And read the article before commenting. I am not a troll. But, that is ok if i receive that reputation here. Might just keep me out of trouble.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Jo, Ender, you both raise some interesting points. Is tricky stuff with no easy answers.

Feminism, misogyny, sexism, exploitation, objectification are not one size fits all in every situation kind of thing. The definitions, interpretations, perspectives, are as individual as our queer ids can be.

In one way it is frustrating to see the same institutional patriarchial crap as alive and well today as it was in 1973 when Shirley Chisholm said...the emotional, sexual, and psychological stereotyping of females begins when the doctor says, 'It's a girl'."

In another way, we as women have choices now that we didnt have way back then. We have a right to these choices as well as the implications and consequences of them.

The most difficult for me to deal with is the sometimes fine line between what are manifestations of internalized patriarchal bullshit versus what is deliberate, calculated, informed individual choice.

The second most difficult is having the negative stuff being done to women, out there, whether it be in the media, in the workplace, in relationships, in economics, in parenting etc. being replicated within our own community. That just really bites.

I dont have any answers. I just never expected to be dealing with the same stuff and more in my 50's as I did in my 20's. It is discouraging and aggravating and tiring to have to address this over and over and over again.

Sorry for the delay as I've been out playing rather than reading.

Kobi, what I put in red is what really strikes me.

Yes, I want women to be empowered to be whoever they are, present themselves however they want to, celebrate their sexuality....whatever the heck they want.

And....I struggle with this as I look around the world, and think...how much of this is a particular woman presenting herself the way she wants to, and how much is what she feels is expected of her? How much is a woman celebrating, displaying, flaunting, *fill in the blank* her own sexuality, and how much of it is playing into the misogynistic notion that a woman is valued based on appearance, and someone else's version of what that appearance should be?

At the risk of offending, we just came from a day at Disney....during which I turned to Snack and said "I'm glad I don't have a daughter." Not because I value males more....but because I would be at a complete loss as to how to proceed, and what to even think. At that moment, we were in line behind a group of girls, probably ages 14 - 17, mayyyybbbeeeee 18 but I doubt it....all in t-shirts tied up under their breasts, sides slit to show their lacey bras, "shorts" that barely qualified for the name, pierced belly buttons with dangling rhinestones....

Let me be clear....I don't object to any of this when it's an adult woman, and her own choice.

It kills me though to think of what's going on in the heads of these girls, and what standard they are measuring themselves against.

I look at my son, of the same age, who doesn't give a thought (I guarantee you) to his weight, what he's wearing, or how he looks. He is left free to concentrate on his own interests, his school work, his dreams....

I guess I'm at a complete loss. Maybe it's age....I know a lot has changed in my head after turning 50 and spending some time in reflection after my mother's passing. I just feel like we're losing ground....and that the people most commonly fostering the growth of misogyny, here in the US at least, are female.

[Kobi]

LONDON – The two historic athletes who became the first women to ever represent Saudi Arabia in the Olympic Games have been snubbed by their nation's media and subjected to a campaign of hate.

Sarah Attar ran the 800 meters on the Olympic Stadium track and Wojdan Shaherkani competed in judo earlier in the Games after the Saudi government relented its strict stance on women competing following international pressure.

Attar finished last in her heat and Shaherkani lost her opening bout with both gaining huge worldwide attention. However, back in Saudi Arabia, the approach was very different.

"We were the only newspaper to write about it," said Hahled Al-Maeena, editor of the English language publication Saudi Gazette, in a telephone conversation with Yahoo! Sports. "I believe these girls are heroines and we should celebrate as a nation. Unfortunately, other people do not agree."

A sinister Twitter campaign under the hashtag "prostitutes of the Olympics" originated in Saudi Arabia and was used to aim sexist vitriol at the competitors.

The father of judoka Shaherkani was so incensed that he contacted the country's interior minister to demand action against those who had insulted his daughter. Under Saudi law, punishment for insulting a woman's honor and integrity can be up to 100 lashes.

Attar and Shaherkani were late additions to the Saudi team and did not qualify but were admitted into their events in London under an International Olympic Committee development regulation that seeks to encourage less-established sporting nations.

Even though the women were forced to walk behind their male counterparts at the Opening Ceremony, their presence was seen as a step in the right direction for women's rights in a country where females are still denied many of what would be considered basic human rights in other nations.

However, there is skepticism about the true motives of the decision to allow Attar, a Saudi-American who studies at Pepperdine University, and Shaherkani to compete.

"They allowed them to compete for only one reason," Al-Maeena said. "If you don't send women, then in the future your country will not be allowed to participate [in the Olympics]. It was a wonderful thing to see the girls participate and it made many people proud, but there was also a motive for it.

"I am a believer in a free press, but there was some filthy language used about them and it was sad to see."

The Saudi Gazette received criticism from extremists for hailing the two athletes for their achievements. Meanwhile, every Arabic-language newspaper carried wide-scale coverage of the bronze medal won by the Saudi equestrian showjumping team led by royal member Prince Abdullah al Saud.

Attar and Shaherkani did not talk to reporters after their Olympic competitions. It is hoped that their participation can pave the way for more athletes from countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Brunei, the only three nations to not send any women athletes to Beijing four years ago. All three had female competitors in these Games.

However, there are still cultural restrictions in place in Saudi Arabia that stand in the way of female athletic progress. Al-Maeena's daughter Lina founded a women's basketball team that has traveled to neighboring Jordan to compete, but the squad has been met with heavy criticism.

"It is not easy as a woman who wants to play sport," said Lina Al-Maeena, who petitioned the IOC to allow her basketball team to represent Saudi Arabia in London but was rejected.

"The extremists said we were not acting as a woman should, that we were wrong and immoral and disrespectful. We just want to play the sport we love and empower other women to compete and play and be athletic. The extremists have their own view and it is very difficult to change their mind."

Saudi Arabia's national Olympic committee representative did not respond Friday to requests for comment and to speak to Attar and Shaherkani.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/olym...haherkani.html

[Gemme]

..."Stand aside. We're men; we do this."



Oh, sorry. I know that THIS is MY job. I didn't know it was yours too.

[Soon]

http://www.everydaysexism.com/

The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss. If you prefer to e-mail me at laura@everydaysexism.com I can upload your story for you instead.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Soon

http://www.everydaysexism.com/

The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss. If you prefer to e-mail me at laura@everydaysexism.com I can upload your story for you instead.

Thank you for posting this.

Some forms of sexism have become so commonplace, we tend to forget what they really are and what they represent.

Benevolent sexism is rarely acknowledged. There is an entry on that website where a woman gets on a plane and the nearest masculine person decides it is his right or duty to help her with her carryon bag even tho she didnt ask for help. That is an example of benevolent sexism.