Heaven and Hell. What do you think?

[SassyLeo]

My mother had been involved in “New Thought” for many years and eventually I became part of the church she co-founded about 12 years ago. It was a wonderful 5 years! The congregation is led by an African American Lesbian minister and her life-partner, also African American, led the music ministry. They were both raised in very fundamental traditional “black churches”. I was very involved- taking classes, participating in groups and the best part, for me, being part of the Gospel choir. Mind you, the church was incredibly progressive and embodied belief systems from all over the world. I loved singing traditional music, with a slight twist of new/more inclusive words and energy. Very woo-woo

Anyway, a number of years ago, I was having a discussion with a colleague, I’ll call her Lisa. Lisa had recently delved back into her faith and had begun attending a Lutheran church with her husband and little girl. She was really enjoying it…and so we would share stories and talk about the differences in our beliefs, but also what we shared. Although I think she liked much of the traditional belief systems, she was somewhat liberal. Meaning, she was not homophobic. And in fact, very open.

Lisa was telling me about how she and several other women from the church had a get together with the minister’s wife at her house. They were all talking about heaven and hell. Lisa was asking her questions and one in particular she really struggled with.

The wife was telling her that they believe that in order to go to heaven, you must believe in Jesus/God/be a Christian/follow the Christian “way”. And if you don’t, you will go to hell.

So the conversation went like this:

Lisa: “What about my friends and family who aren’t an active Christians or I’m not sure what they believe…they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, that is what we believe. We believe that it is best to live as Christians”

Lisa: “So everyone I know who isn’t a Christian or isn’t a practicing Christian, they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, yes…”

Lisa: “Well that is hard for me to hear and understand. These are people I love and just because they don’t believe as I do, they go to hell? What if they are Jewish? It just doesn’t make sense to me”

And so she came back to work on Monday and was really struggling with how to reconcile her feelings. I told her that because I don’t believe in heaven and hell, I could not speak to her specific situation, but encouraged her to follow her heart.

This still sticks with me. My belief is that God (Spirit, Goddess…) does not discriminate and is completely inclusive of all walks of life.

When I die, they can take all the parts they need to save people and then cremate me.

I’m fine with that

[Lusciousblondefemme]

Being raised Roman Catholic I believed all my life about Heaven and Hell... But as I get older I wonder what is really true that was written in the bible.

I wonder how someone could create Heaven and Hell and Earth and all the people on the earth but then have his message be sent through people who spread hatred and molest innocent children. I wonder how one can believe in hell if God says that he forgives all as long as you repent.

I wonder why God created me since I am gay and he supposedly hates gay people.

See as I get older I have alot of questions that I will never have answered because after all I can not have a sit down with God himself.. Now Can I

So Heaven and Hell are not in my future I guess that I will be in Limbo until someone proves to me that there is undoubtfully a Heaven and Hell ...

Or Until there is Equality for ALL..

[Kobi]

I am a recovered Catholic.

I do not believe in heaven or hell because this would mean the Creator distinguishes between good and bad, right or wrong. Judgement, I believe, is a humanmade concept designed to enslave people to a certain train of thought and behavior i.e. religion.

I believe the Creator made an incredbily complex piece of machinery in developing life and living as we know it. I believe the Creator judges nothing but marvels at what humankind has made of the miracle of life.

I do believe in an afterlife, where we return to the whole and are once again made whole.

[lipstixgal]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I am a recovered Catholic.

I do not believe in heaven or hell because this would mean the Creator distinguishes between good and bad, right or wrong. Judgement, I believe, is a humanmade concept designed to enslave people to a certain train of thought and behavior i.e. religion.

I believe the Creator made an incredbily complex piece of machinery in developing life and living as we know it. I believe the Creator judges nothing but marvels at what humankind has made of the miracle of life.

I do believe in an afterlife, where we return to the whole and are once again made whole.

Kobi that's what the Jews believe in an afterlife!!

[Ebon]

What I believe about Heaven and Hell as it pertains to death. When we die we go through a life review, depending on the type of person we have been and the way we have treated others depends on how the life review goes. It could be Heaven (if you've had good intentions) or it could be Hell (if you have bad intentions and didn't learn from them). This will all be judged by ourselves. Just my belief.

[Passionaria]

Well, I can say three things for sure. I know heaven and hell exist on earth, as I have been to both places. I know there are forces of dark and light, as this a world of duality, and that our minds judge them based on belief systems. I also know that there is a spirit world, and that is a place there, akin to paradise because I have been brought there in the dream time. That's all I know for sure.

Pashi

[cinderella]

To me (my cynical version), heaven is when you receive an orgasim by the one you love, and hell, is when you don't.

[Passionaria]

Originally Posted by cinderella

To me (my cynical version), heaven is when you receive an orgasim by the one you love, and hell, is when you don't.

AMEN sister!!!

go back to your regular programming now.......TYVM AHH look at that baby face, SMOKEY!

[Converse]

Can’t think of the name of that movie… someone will I’m sure. But the premise was this… You die, then you go to this town looks kinda like vegas but the slot machines always pay. And while you are there you are assigned an attorney who argues your case in court- and the case you have to prove- is that while on earth you lived your life without fear taking charge. If you won you got a free ticket to heaven, if you lost well then back to earth to start all over again.

No hell, just a need to do it right while you are here.

[Toughy]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. They belong to the mythology of those who follow the monotheist God of Abraham.

I object to all good things being heaven and all bad things being hell. I'm tired of your ideas of polar opposites being the truth.

I'm not a happy human. The President of my country just told me to pray to a singular God for help, hope and guidance............He said God................

thanks Mr President for your inclusiveness and decidedly lackluster response to BP and corporations in general. Thanks ever so much for validating the idea that money has more value.......is a more ethical view.... than people.

[chefhmboyrd]

i don't believe in either.....
and i don't believe that the bible is the "word of god" sent down to man via the celestial dictaphone
IMO
man wrote the bible,
man made god to control the masses.....

"god" lives within us
therefore We are the gods......
Somos Dioses.........

that being said, i think of my life now as heavenly and my life before T as hellish.....

it wasn't entirely bad, i have lots of great friends and memories...
((((((Apocolipstic))))))

but i hated "her" so badly and wanted to die most of the time, that was in fact HELL.

my life since...........
i stabbed "her" to death repeatedly with a 200mg of T every other week......

has been heavenly

[Tommi]

I think Medusa must think she's in hell about now.

Hell Yeah

[ravfem]

i was raised Church of God, and had to attend every Sunday until i reached 16 (for whatever reason it became my choice then). Heaven was where you went if you were a good, god-fearing christian, as defined by COG standards. Hell was for everyone else.

i started questioning the whole religion thing while in high school, and ID'd as agnostic for a couple of years, until i finally "came out" as atheist. One of my first questions was, "how do we know the bible wasn't written by people sitting around the campfire, passing a pipe around?" my next one was, "If god made us, who made god? Where did god come from?" and "if every single person on earth all came from one couple, then incest was accepted and widely practiced back in the day, huh?"

And for racist christians, including most of my bio-family, i point out that according to their bible, we all came from Adam & Eve, so.....

i believe people use religion as a crutch. All good things that happen to them are because they're good christians. All bad things aren't their fault, it's the devil trying to tempt them.

Miracles are credited to god. Bad things are the work of the devil. If your belief strong & true, you'll do just fine. If you misbehave, you'll burn forever.

It's like the police, or laws. Religion tries to keep people from doing "bad" things.

Only religion is much more judgmental & hypocritical. i don't need a book or a person to tell me how to behave or live.

i try to do the right thing and try to live by good morals & ethics. i try not to hate people or be mean to them, even if i don't like them. i try to treat others like i want to be treated. i wish more christians lived like that.

i believe when i die, i die. The end. Like someone else said, i've got it set up so that the medical community can take what's left that is useful, and cremate the rest.

[imperfect_cupcake]

"when will the Kingdom come?"
"it is is already here but men do not see it."

Basically, this is what I believe. I'm functionally Atheist, but I grove on good metaphor. The eternal, heaven, hell, the Kingdom, etc is here, now. it's up to us to see it and live it.

I know when I'm trapped in my own hell. I know when I'm in an eternal moment. There's no afterlife. it's all here, now. Right now.

[Ryobi]

Originally Posted by Tommi

I think Medusa must think she's in hell about now.

Hell Yeah

I think if there really were manuals for everything, the one for "site ownership" would have fine print that reads, "no matter what your intentions or how often you bend over backwards to bring them a little piece of heaven, they will give you hell."

[friskyfemme]

A simple description of my belief in heaven and hell is that each of us create our own based on the position we are in life when we reflect on the existence of each.

That being said and possibly 'clear as mud' to some, Let me explain my belief. First of all I believe we always exist as a spiritual being. At points in time we exist as spirit and an incarnate being. In our pure spiritual state, we are 'perfectbeings'. Being perfect does not allow us to grow or to experience emotions. So we choose to incarnate in order to grow our spirit. We do ths many times living many lifes. In some lifetimes we are the victor, the perpetrator, and others the underdog, or the victim. In each life we set out to learn the lessons we wish to learn, we bring with us other spirits that help us experience what we need to experience to learn our lessons. We choose our limitations and our challenges to overcome in order to meet our life's goal. Others present us with love, hate, gain, and loss (these are the variables for change in our life's plan). We don't know when are how these present themselves. We each,too, present the unknowns to others along our life's path. Living in a physical embodiment is our choice. Meeting and learning our lessons is our commitment to ourself and to our fellow spirits. Of course the difficulty we have is that we enter each life armed only with the knowledge and experience we need for our current life. So in essesence every life is a new beginning. With each death in each lifetime we grow our spirit. In spirit we are one. So as we grow our own spirit, we grow the composite spirit 'Great Spirit'. In this we are only as great as our least human and only as small as our greatest human in our lifetime. This of course is the preamble for our organized relgions, our cultures ,and our laws.

As some are thinking now, then how can we be one in Spirit and be so diverse in our beliefs, our treatment of others. It is pretty simple, these are our challenges. Whether we can set aside our differences to help each other, will determine whether we grow or diminish our own spirit and ultimately 'Great Spirit'. Blessings to all.

[Starbuck]

Heaven is going to be what you want it to be. Do you want all the saints around so you can ask any question you want? Do you just want to worship Father God? Or do you want to explore the beauties of heaven, the waterfalls, the scenery, read books and gain knowledge? It all depends, IMHO, on what you want to do, perhaps all of it a little at a time.

Hell, on the contrary, is HOT AND MISERABLE. You know that burning lake of fire you've heard about? Yeah, it's waiting for ya if you don't live your life right baby. God loves us and wants to save us from that! My granddad scared the daylights out of me about hell when I was young, telling me how all you do is burn, you're in pain, you're tongue swells up in your mouth, your throat is dry and cracked, and YOU CAN'T HAVE A DRINK OF WATER! That sounds awful!!! That's not for me man, I've got a ticket to the big show! Been baptized and everything and proud of it sugar!