Permission to propose

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Greyson

I was raised in a very strong matriarchial family. Most of the women raised the family primarily on their own and worked. In my extended family you want to pass mustard with my mom, her sisters, and my twin sister.

I'm of the ilk that women do truly rule the world. One way or another. They raised the men that sit in power. They're married to the men in power. And more & more they are assuming that power.
And not necessarily a bad thing.

Hey, instead of having wars, we'd just have a bunch of countries not talking to each other. Lol.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Tony

I'm of the ilk that women do truly rule the world. One way or another. They raised the men that sit in power. They're married to the men in power. And more & more they are assuming that power.
And not necessarily a bad thing.

Hey, instead of having wars, we'd just have a bunch of countries not talking to each other. Lol.

Fo' realz???


I identify with Greyson's dynamic, coming from a Latina/o Mexican/Chicana/o culture it's our women who say how
things roll..

[Tony]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Fo' realz???

No disrespect, Lady, just my personal observation & opinion.
And I did say its a good thing. Women have a much better reasoning power than we do. IMO

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Tony

No disrespect, Lady, just my personal observation & opinion.
And I did say its a good thing. Women have a much better reasoning power than we do. IMO

Funny, I don't think communication is gender based...

Also scientifically YOU have the same brain I do...

So your observations make no sense to me...

[Tony]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Funny, I don't think communication is gender based...

Also scientifically YOU have the same brain I do...

So your observations make no sense to me...

Well, I don't claim to make sense. Lol. I was also agreeing w/Greyson but obviously not communicating well. I believe women are in charge AND they should be. Albeit, more visibly, but I still think more than people believe they are. And again, THAT'S A GOOD THING! ;-)

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Tony

And I did say its a good thing. Women have a much better reasoning power than we do. IMO

I detest this sort of gender stereotyping. In my mind, it's the reverse of "women cannot ...." way of thinking and it's the same bull****.

Doesn't matter whether you say it's a good thing or whether it's seen as pro-women. In my opinion, it's crude gender stereotyping.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

I detest this sort of gender stereotyping. In my mind, it's the reverse of "women cannot ...." way of thinking and it's the same bull****.

With all due respect, I am not stereotyping. I am however obviously guilty of not communicating well today via this stupid smart phone.
And I said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot."
I do believe I was more than supportive of women, so my apologies for being misunderstood.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Tony

With all due respect, I am not stereotyping. I am however obviously guilty of not communicating well today via this stupid smart phone.
And I said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot."
I do believe I was more than supportive of women, so my apologies for being misunderstood.

No apology needed.

However, you were sterotyping. You said women "have much better reasoning power" than men. If that's not stereotyping, I don't know what is.

I know that you said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot". However, I was simply responding that, in my view, crude gender stereotypes such as "women have much better reasoning power than men" are all part of that same gender stereotyping equation which discredits the individual.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

No apology needed.

However, you were sterotyping. You said women "have much better reasoning power" than men. If that's not stereotyping, I don't know what is.

I know that you said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot". However, I was simply responding that, in my view, crude gender stereotypes such as "women have much better reasoning power than men" are all part of that same gender stereotyping equation which discredits the individual.

I did say "I believe women have better reasoning power than men." I stand by that but I should have added, IMO. That's what I believe these threads & forums are about; voicing & discussing opinions. The word stereotype has a negative connotation, which come to think of it, might make for a good thread in itself.
The differences, perceptions of opinions versus stereotyping.

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by Tony

With all due respect, I am not stereotyping. I am however obviously guilty of not communicating well today via this stupid smart phone.
And I said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot."
I do believe I was more than supportive of women, so my apologies for being misunderstood.

I believe Ciaran was saying it's the same as saying "Women cannot do ___ because only men can." "Men cannot 'reasonably communicate' because only women can."

That is how I read it, please correct me if I am wrong.

[firegal]

Originally Posted by Tony

I'm of the ilk that women do truly rule the world. One way or another. They raised the men that sit in power. They're married to the men in power. And more & more they are assuming that power.
And not necessarily a bad thing.

Hey, instead of having wars, we'd just have a bunch of countries not talking to each other. Lol.

Whats also wonderfull is women are also married to women in power!

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Tony

Hey, instead of having wars, we'd just have a bunch of countries not talking to each other. Lol.

This isn't funny, having a vagina doesn't make you a passive aggressive communicator.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by apretty

This isn't funny, having a vagina doesn't make you a passive aggressive communicator.

My apologies. I just saw this. I was not being disrespectful. I was only trying to be funny. It was actually a line I saw on one of those Facebook postcard things. Again, no disrespect intended.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Tony

My apologies. I just saw this. I was not being disrespectful. I was only trying to be funny. It was actually a line I saw on one of those Facebook postcard things. Again, no disrespect intended.

Tony

Kudos to you for apologising. That takes guts.

That said, you've just admitted taking a comment from one of those irritating facebook picture posts and using it as your own.

That's sad. I've read enough of your posts to know you're an articulate individual with a reasonable grasp of language. I'd respectfully suggest limiting the replication of inane facebook comments in your own posts.

[Martina]

I wish her old threads would go away, especially if they are going to inspire sexist humor, but even if not. It makes me think of all the people who invested TIME, and some even a certain amount of concern and affection, in a poser. It's so fraudulant when someone does that. It makes you feel robbed. Hell, people posted their wedding videos on this thread.

[Electrocell]

I would if that is what the lady wanted but other than that no I wouldn't ask permission.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Martina

I wish her old threads would go away, especially if they are going to inspire sexist humor, but even if not. It makes me think of all the people who invested TIME, and some even a certain amount of concern and affection, in a poser. It's so fraudulant when someone does that. It makes you feel robbed. Hell, people posted their wedding videos on this thread.

Understand that. However,

a) it is not closed (if a moderator wants to close it, they will do so). Until then, I / we have the right to comment.

b) after the initial trolling, there has been a very interesting and valuable discussion here about many aspects of marriage. There is significant focus on LGBT persons getting legal rights to marry but, IMO, insignificant focus on a multitude of marriage-related customs and expectations.

c) no one should feel their time is wasted. The community, and how we respond to threads, is not about the original poster. In fact, this thread reiterates that as real members of the community have had a rich discussion. It might have originated from a troll (and, yes, I wish it didn't) but it has not been all bad.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Understand that. However,

a) it is not closed (if a moderator wants to close it, they will do so). Until then, I / we have the right to comment.

I am fully aware of that, Ciaran.

[bright_arrow]

This is a slight derail, but with the talk of religion and rituals and wedding and heterosexuality and such, I figured I may as well mention our wedding and how/why we did what we did, if there was even a reason.

We were legally married within an inter-faith church by a pagan priestess. We were given a blessing by a fellow pastor because he wanted to be there, and his religion would not allow him to marry us so that was the best gift he could give us.

The church we were married in is one of Bard's favorite places. It was not a matter of religion, or how it may be more acceptable to society - it was simply a place that was sacred to her. Mary, our priestess, was absolutely wonderful. We wanted more of a spiritual ceremony than religious. She spoke of the elements, the higher being, the union of our families - vague enough not to offend any of my Catholic family but enough to feel the love.

We had a unity sand with three vases to bring Bard's daughter into the ceremony with us, because it was not a bonding of not two but three. We were handfasted, then exchanged rings because as Mary put it: we can not be together physically all the time, so the rings are a representation of our bond and commitment towards each other.

I am her wife, and she is my husband, wife, husbutch - we have not settled on an exact term. Normally, she is just my wife. My father (lovingly) will refer to her as my husband, and she occasionally refers to herself as my hus(house)butch. There is fluidity in the pronouns, but we don't care. I wore a dress because I like dresses, and she wore a tux because she likes tuxes. It was not a matter of her representing the 'man' in the relationship. It's just how she dresses, and it is no different than her everyday wear.

Would our wedding fit the stereotypical heterosexual wedding? Yes. Do I care? Not in the least. I got married, our family and friends were there to celebrate it with us, and we put aside enough wedding money to come celebrate with you fine folks. Win, win!

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by desd

This is a slight derail, but with the talk of religion and rituals and wedding and heterosexuality and such, I figured I may as well mention our wedding and how/why we did what we did, if there was even a reason.

We were legally married within an inter-faith church by a pagan priestess. We were given a blessing by a fellow pastor because he wanted to be there, and his religion would not allow him to marry us so that was the best gift he could give us.

The church we were married in is one of Bard's favorite places. It was not a matter of religion, or how it may be more acceptable to society - it was simply a place that was sacred to her. Mary, our priestess, was absolutely wonderful. We wanted more of a spiritual ceremony than religious. She spoke of the elements, the higher being, the union of our families - vague enough not to offend any of my Catholic family but enough to feel the love.

We had a unity sand with three vases to bring Bard's daughter into the ceremony with us, because it was not a bonding of not two but three. We were handfasted, then exchanged rings because as Mary put it: we can not be together physically all the time, so the rings are a representation of our bond and commitment towards each other.

I am her wife, and she is my husband, wife, husbutch - we have not settled on an exact term. Normally, she is just my wife. My father (lovingly) will refer to her as my husband, and she occasionally refers to herself as my hus(house)butch. There is fluidity in the pronouns, but we don't care. I wore a dress because I like dresses, and she wore a tux because she likes tuxes. It was not a matter of her representing the 'man' in the relationship. It's just how she dresses, and it is no different than her everyday wear.

Would our wedding fit the stereotypical heterosexual wedding? Yes. Do I care? Not in the least. I got married, our family and friends were there to celebrate it with us, and we put aside enough wedding money to come celebrate with you fine folks. Win, win!

Yes exactly! I wore a tux last year to the Reunion and will wear one this year. If I get married I will be wearing one as well. I will be a butch groom, not representing the man.

I do not subscribe to butch=male; femme=female. Some do, but I do not.