June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

*Anya* · 10-26-2012, 03:30 PM

I think that a lot of folks that romanticize the 50's simply never lived in that time and place.

TV aways looks better than reality!

I grew up in the 50's and 60's. What I saw in my home and the home of my friends, never matched TV.

My ex-husband was the oldest of 10. His mom was very traditional and that was what he expected of me. Unfortunately for him, from the get-go, I knew something was wrong with that picture-for me.

The day he told me that my "job" as his wife was to starch and iron all 20 of his dress shirts and hang them color-coordinated in the closet, was the day I said, "Fuck this". I put my baby in the car (had one child then), drove to the library, found the Robin Morgan anthology, Sisterhood is Powerful (hence the bumper sticker later on, on my 1974 Super Beetle); and my consciousness began to be raised.

I started facilitating consciousness raising groups in our living room (oh yeah, he really loved that!). The stories that the older women would tell of their life-long struggles to be the perfect wives and mothers of the 40's and 50's were heartbreaking. The problem with perfect is that it is unattainable!

I used my dog-eared NOW CR booklet each week and each week watched those women grow into stronger, more self-assured women, developing confidence in themselves and a life outside of the home. They began to accept that they could never achieve Donna Reed or June Cleaver.

As they gained confidence, so did I.

I believe that choosing a life, is very different than having one thrust upon you or being told that you "should" live a certain way.

June Cleaver really does not exist.

She was a Hollywood writer's creation.

We are flesh and blood women. Very human and far from perfect.

PS: I never did starch and iron those shirts, nor were the hung up color-coordinated.

I took them to the dry cleaner's.

*Anya* · 10-26-2012, 03:32 PM

My fat finger slipped on my iPhone. That blue question mark below was an accident

easygoingfemme · 10-26-2012, 03:41 PM

Coming back with one more... and I'll probably be back again...

Part of the journey in my figuring it out too has been figuring out how to accept from a butch. Things like, well no shit, of course I can open that door. I could install it too. But you are opening it for me because it's part of who you are and it makes you feel good and that makes me feel good too. It's the flip side of my smoothing the collar and slipping the love note in the lunch box. This moves far beyond the opening of the door scenario of course- and I think it's an important part in not just figuring out how we give as femmes, but also how we receive without it falling into a possible preconceived notion or media fed role model.

Beloved · 10-26-2012, 03:41 PM

The best part of the 50's were the pin-ups.

*Anya* · 10-26-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beloved

The best part of the 50's were the pin-ups.

Yes! Yes! I totally agree!

I loved how voluptuous they were! Yum

The_Lady_Snow · 10-26-2012, 05:01 PM

7. Do you even care who she is or what she seems to stand for?

I know who she is, and sometimes what she supposedly stands for makes me tilt my head and wonder WTF.

It's not because I scoff at the chosen dynamics and desires of others, it's because when she is placed in a Femme identity I am like wait! She's not, she was a straight woman, not queer so for me in regards to my gender the comparison does not compute and it makes me twitch. The epitomy is perpetuated that a white woman is more valuable and that too makes me a lil uneasy. It's hard, it's hard to admit an almost twinge of insecurity that surges through me.

8. How does this affect you as a Femme of Color?

It pisses me off, it makes me want to cry and it makes me sometimes wish I wasn't who I am. It's a struggle and it's an inner fight with myself of when to speak up and share my thoughts about it or just keep my mouth shut and share them with people who are willing to have those kinds of conversations, to examine and deconstruct what the issues and ism's that are so deeply embedded in what defines a "good Femme".

Latinas are starved for role models, wide hips, large nalgas, a strong dominant side swirled into Feminine markers.

Carmen San Diego is a good Latina role model, yet she's not continually used as a Latina model. Ugly Betty was someone who we could look up to but yet at the same time she was called "Ugly" and with time her body image and things changed to fit a "better" look.

Rosario Dawson, you would think her being so deeply involved in Vote Latino that you would see images of her continuously flashed before our eyes or that Femme be risen up to that imagery of what can be and is.

So I struggle some days more than others. I'd like it more and yes this is me wishing out loud that instead of comparing Femme to June a straight woman that for once someone would rise Femme to (insert someone else a woman of color at least) so that I could at least get it that way.

It's a struggle to put what I am thinking into words so but I promise I am trying and thinking really hard before I post.

*Anya* · 10-27-2012, 03:55 PM

This is an awesome thread. It is an entire series of consciousness raising groups in one reading of the thread.

It reminds me of the "old days" when I was in NOW (Betty Friedan called us lesbians the "lavender menace") and we used to hash these ideas, concepts and theories out constantly.

Sometimes, I get discouraged that feminism has receded into the background for women but reading everyone's posts, I see that a feminist consciousness, is alive and well.

I am so happy to know this.

Ginger · 10-26-2012, 07:25 PM

June Cleaver is a symbol of approved feminine expression within the dominant culture of mid-20th century North America. I think she was also a conduit for consumerism, as she was all about using household products that represented progress at that time, and technological advancement. Wrapped in all that responsibility, though, she has her ways of being independent, of seeing through bullshit, of being the voice of reason in her family.

I met Barbara Billingsley on a cruise when I was an advertising copywriter in L.A. a long time ago (the cruise line was my client). She hugged me as soon as we were introduced. I think she was so used to being hugged by women, she just went there automatically. She assumes she is beloved. And I think she is beloved, and her authority is admired by women because they intuit how she, her character, balances out the dehumanizing sexism of the time.

I mean, listen to that voice. When you hear her in person, it's even more gravelly and deep and oddly melodic.

10-26-2012, 03:30 PM	#1
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,447 Times in 7,284 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I think that a lot of folks that romanticize the 50's simply never lived in that time and place. TV aways looks better than reality! I grew up in the 50's and 60's. What I saw in my home and the home of my friends, never matched TV. My ex-husband was the oldest of 10. His mom was very traditional and that was what he expected of me. Unfortunately for him, from the get-go, I knew something was wrong with that picture-for me. The day he told me that my "job" as his wife was to starch and iron all 20 of his dress shirts and hang them color-coordinated in the closet, was the day I said, "Fuck this". I put my baby in the car (had one child then), drove to the library, found the Robin Morgan anthology, Sisterhood is Powerful (hence the bumper sticker later on, on my 1974 Super Beetle); and my consciousness began to be raised. I started facilitating consciousness raising groups in our living room (oh yeah, he really loved that!). The stories that the older women would tell of their life-long struggles to be the perfect wives and mothers of the 40's and 50's were heartbreaking. The problem with perfect is that it is unattainable! I used my dog-eared NOW CR booklet each week and each week watched those women grow into stronger, more self-assured women, developing confidence in themselves and a life outside of the home. They began to accept that they could never achieve Donna Reed or June Cleaver. As they gained confidence, so did I. I believe that choosing a life, is very different than having one thrust upon you or being told that you "should" live a certain way. June Cleaver really does not exist. She was a Hollywood writer's creation. We are flesh and blood women. Very human and far from perfect. PS: I never did starch and iron those shirts, nor were the hung up color-coordinated. I took them to the dry cleaner's. __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner Last edited by Anya; 10-26-2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: As usual, typo

10-26-2012, 03:32 PM	#2
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,447 Times in 7,284 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	My fat finger slipped on my iPhone. That blue question mark below was an accident __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

10-26-2012, 05:01 PM	#6
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,670 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	Question 7 & 8 7. Do you even care who she is or what she seems to stand for? I know who she is, and sometimes what she supposedly stands for makes me tilt my head and wonder WTF. It's not because I scoff at the chosen dynamics and desires of others, it's because when she is placed in a Femme identity I am like wait! She's not, she was a straight woman, not queer so for me in regards to my gender the comparison does not compute and it makes me twitch. The epitomy is perpetuated that a white woman is more valuable and that too makes me a lil uneasy. It's hard, it's hard to admit an almost twinge of insecurity that surges through me. 8. How does this affect you as a Femme of Color? It pisses me off, it makes me want to cry and it makes me sometimes wish I wasn't who I am. It's a struggle and it's an inner fight with myself of when to speak up and share my thoughts about it or just keep my mouth shut and share them with people who are willing to have those kinds of conversations, to examine and deconstruct what the issues and ism's that are so deeply embedded in what defines a "good Femme". Latinas are starved for role models, wide hips, large nalgas, a strong dominant side swirled into Feminine markers. Carmen San Diego is a good Latina role model, yet she's not continually used as a Latina model. Ugly Betty was someone who we could look up to but yet at the same time she was called "Ugly" and with time her body image and things changed to fit a "better" look. Rosario Dawson, you would think her being so deeply involved in Vote Latino that you would see images of her continuously flashed before our eyes or that Femme be risen up to that imagery of what can be and is. So I struggle some days more than others. I'd like it more and yes this is me wishing out loud that instead of comparing Femme to June a straight woman that for once someone would rise Femme to (insert someone else a woman of color at least) so that I could at least get it that way. It's a struggle to put what I am thinking into words so but I promise I am trying and thinking really hard before I post. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

10-27-2012, 03:55 PM	#7
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,447 Times in 7,284 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	This is an awesome thread. It is an entire series of consciousness raising groups in one reading of the thread. It reminds me of the "old days" when I was in NOW (Betty Friedan called us lesbians the "lavender menace") and we used to hash these ideas, concepts and theories out constantly. Sometimes, I get discouraged that feminism has receded into the background for women but reading everyone's posts, I see that a feminist consciousness, is alive and well. I am so happy to know this. __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

10-26-2012, 03:41 PM	#3
easygoingfemme Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Lil' Miss Sassy Pants Preferred Pronoun?: She/her Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: My place by the river Posts: 3,692 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 14,974 Times in 3,318 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Coming back with one more... and I'll probably be back again... Part of the journey in my figuring it out too has been figuring out how to accept from a butch. Things like, well no shit, of course I can open that door. I could install it too. But you are opening it for me because it's part of who you are and it makes you feel good and that makes me feel good too. It's the flip side of my smoothing the collar and slipping the love note in the lunch box. This moves far beyond the opening of the door scenario of course- and I think it's an important part in not just figuring out how we give as femmes, but also how we receive without it falling into a possible preconceived notion or media fed role model.

10-26-2012, 03:41 PM	#4
Beloved Member How Do You Identify?: alive Preferred Pronoun?: um Relationship Status: married Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: on the stars Posts: 460 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,415 Thanked 1,653 Times in 298 Posts Rep Power: 19348703	The best part of the 50's were the pin-ups.

10-26-2012, 07:25 PM	#8
Ginger Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme lesbian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: East coast Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,829 Thanked 12,295 Times in 2,057 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	June Cleaver is a symbol of approved feminine expression within the dominant culture of mid-20th century North America. I think she was also a conduit for consumerism, as she was all about using household products that represented progress at that time, and technological advancement. Wrapped in all that responsibility, though, she has her ways of being independent, of seeing through bullshit, of being the voice of reason in her family. I met Barbara Billingsley on a cruise when I was an advertising copywriter in L.A. a long time ago (the cruise line was my client). She hugged me as soon as we were introduced. I think she was so used to being hugged by women, she just went there automatically. She assumes she is beloved. And I think she is beloved, and her authority is admired by women because they intuit how she, her character, balances out the dehumanizing sexism of the time. I mean, listen to that voice. When you hear her in person, it's even more gravelly and deep and oddly melodic.