June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

girl_dee · 10-26-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

What a beautiful thread!!!! Reading these posts after a long day at work was exactly what i needed to remind me of how wonderful our community can actually be.

I would have to say my mom was June Cleaver to a tee.

But, i can remember at a VERY young age, it bugged me greatly. However, instead of me embracing this and wanting this because of how i was raised. I wanted the opposite. Even though it appeared we had the perfect family, i felt she was oppressed in so many ways. It drove me crazy even at a very young age.

I remember challenging her on things...

"Mom, what would happen if you didn't have Daddy's supper on the table at exactly 6"

"Mom why don't you ask Daddy to help with the laundry or shopping"

"Mom, why do you say Mrs. so and so and not introduce and sign your first and last name"

"Mom why do you let him make all the decisions"

I was always pushing her like that. She has told me many times, she saw signs of my stand on equality for women and feminism at a VERY early age.

You know, i'm not sure it is what she wanted to be honest. I couldn't imagine it would be, even back then. But, she says it is what she loved, keeping a house and home with no real life outside dad and us kids. *shrugs

I know i didn't want it. I didn't have it and i'm happy about that decision. When i was married to a bio man, i worked solid, i made him help me with things and as soon as my kids were big enough to reach dishes, laundry, they helped too.

I was no June Cleaver. Never wanted to be. Never could be. It just doesn't interest me at all. I like to cook, but i don't love it. I just get hungry LOL.

So many different ideas and thoughts and experiences and lives here.

It's really a beautiful discussion.

You know, i'm not sure it is what she wanted to be honest. I couldn't imagine it would be, even back then. But, she says it is what she loved, keeping a house and home with no real life outside dad and us kids. *shrugs

i could totally see myself being content with what i bolded out from your post. For me and some others that is having a real life. Just like you love nursing, it's a passion for you i assume. For others they feel this same passion around the kids and the home, or just the home. Until now i've never afforded that lifestyle. i work two days a week at the clinic so i can rest! Keeping up with the Syr and the house is real work! i've always found it interesting that some women work to have a life outside the home, when i've always wanted to work solely at the home. i've always wanted time to enjoy my home, make it a real home and volunteer somewhere when i wanted to venture out.

When i was in banking there was a fellow officer sitting at the lunch table with me, an older lady than the rest of us. She spoke about how she lovingly laid her husbands clothes out for him everyday before she left for work. Not because he was incapable or demanding, but because she loved choosing his clothes. Everyone but me jumped her case about it. How demeaning and terrible of a thing that was they said. She was so embarrassed and ashamed. That always has bothered me, that they were so judgmental towards her.

Then again, i've always felt like an oddball.

girl_dee · 10-26-2012, 08:46 PM

Belle's right about *it's all she knew*

My mom told me that in her day, during high school the girls would spend time picking out their wedding dresses. My mom is 73, so we are talking late 50's.

It was just a given that a girl graduate, get married, have kids, the end. My mother married at 18, had babies right away. She was doing the "womanly"thing. No wonder she was a mess all those years. Two failed marriages and 25 years of hell from my father. i just remember as a kid wishing my mom would save us, run away already, but she stuck by her man, until we were all gone and he nearly killed her too.

So like with Belle's mom, she had dreams but they were out of the realm of possibility. Women made the best of it, or failed at it miserably.

i've done it all regarding lifestyle and can make a choice, it was so not the same for some moms back then.

femmsational · 10-26-2012, 08:49 PM

I just want to say smart girls rock.

I have WAY more I wanna say but I'm too stupid right now.

I'll be back in the morning to drool over you smart girls again :-)

julieisafemme · 10-26-2012, 10:24 PM

I don't identify with June Cleaver as a femme. If I had to pick a TV character to identify my femmeness it would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I also don't like it when people lament for the old days. I like to be in the present.

I grew up in a Leave It to Beaver household. Except June smoked cigarettes all day and drank coffee and sometimes seemed depressed. My Mom is a lady. That is the best word I can think of to describe her. There are many things about her that I strive to be as a mother and a woman.

My relationship dynamic is very much like yours Femmesational. I would not describe it as 50s or June Cleaver though. I also do not see it as heteronormative although it might appear to be. That's ok with me if someone sees it that way. So Julie you asked how do we talk about this without making people upset or having a history lesson? I think referencing a time in history that is problematic might be causing the problem. So how do we define it? I don't have a good answer except to say that it is what makes me feel safe and loved.

I agree with Martina about not separating ourselves from other women as femmes. One of the most wonderful, liberating aspects of being a femme to me is is that I stand with all women, butch, femme, straight or what have you. I did not feel that way before. Maybe it is because I know myself better now? I don't know. All I know is that I am so unbelievably grateful and blessed to have these kinds of conversations with women now.

10-26-2012, 08:49 PM	#3
femmsational Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: bitch, but she will do Join Date: May 2012 Location: Jomtien Thailand Posts: 808 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 866 Thanked 3,787 Times in 773 Posts Rep Power: 21474850	I just want to say smart girls rock. I have WAY more I wanna say but I'm too stupid right now. I'll be back in the morning to drool over you smart girls again :-) __________________ If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" Albert Einstein Yes, I'm aware I can't spell, and no, I don't care quite enough to spell check. Sorry!!!

10-26-2012, 08:46 PM	#2
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,828 Times in 13,908 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	Belle's right about it's all she knew My mom told me that in her day, during high school the girls would spend time picking out their wedding dresses. My mom is 73, so we are talking late 50's. It was just a given that a girl graduate, get married, have kids, the end. My mother married at 18, had babies right away. She was doing the "womanly"thing. No wonder she was a mess all those years. Two failed marriages and 25 years of hell from my father. i just remember as a kid wishing my mom would save us, run away already, but she stuck by her man, until we were all gone and he nearly killed her too. So like with Belle's mom, she had dreams but they were out of the realm of possibility. Women made the best of it, or failed at it miserably. i've done it all regarding lifestyle and can make a choice, it was so not the same for some moms back then.

10-26-2012, 10:24 PM	#4
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,434 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I don't identify with June Cleaver as a femme. If I had to pick a TV character to identify my femmeness it would be Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I also don't like it when people lament for the old days. I like to be in the present. I grew up in a Leave It to Beaver household. Except June smoked cigarettes all day and drank coffee and sometimes seemed depressed. My Mom is a lady. That is the best word I can think of to describe her. There are many things about her that I strive to be as a mother and a woman. My relationship dynamic is very much like yours Femmesational. I would not describe it as 50s or June Cleaver though. I also do not see it as heteronormative although it might appear to be. That's ok with me if someone sees it that way. So Julie you asked how do we talk about this without making people upset or having a history lesson? I think referencing a time in history that is problematic might be causing the problem. So how do we define it? I don't have a good answer except to say that it is what makes me feel safe and loved. I agree with Martina about not separating ourselves from other women as femmes. One of the most wonderful, liberating aspects of being a femme to me is is that I stand with all women, butch, femme, straight or what have you. I did not feel that way before. Maybe it is because I know myself better now? I don't know. All I know is that I am so unbelievably grateful and blessed to have these kinds of conversations with women now.