"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

TxBelle · 12-05-2012, 12:54 PM

I find lables helpful. To me, it's like a shopping guide. Example, I want chips. There are an amazing varity within that 'lable', but it helps me find which asile to shop.

*Anya* · 12-05-2012, 03:03 PM

I guess I don't really care if butch/femme are antiquated terms or if it makes me marginalized.

I am a femme.

I am attracted, in every possible way there is, to butch women.

It is as natural to me as breathing.

It just is my life.

puddin' · 12-08-2012, 08:18 PM

i'm butch as, i'm old skool and i make no apologies about it.

i like bein' a colourful boi, too.

i yam what i yam...

Finn · 01-05-2013, 04:16 PM

Hello e/Everyone;
I am an Old School Butch/Daddy and I find it hard to find an Old School Femme/Babygirl lately.. Many claim to be Old School yet at times I've found that "label" not correct for them.. In Massachusetts especially the lack of real Old School Femmes/Babygirls are to me anyways,, non existent..
I love being attentive to my Babygirl and doing things to surprise and make her happy.. One day I hope to find my other half,, and hear her call me Daddy again.. Til then I just do what I do and make every day count *S*..
I wish you a/All the best of the New Year and hope e/Everyone stays warm and safe..
Finn

Ashton · 05-19-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxBelle

I find lables helpful. To me, it's like a shopping guide. Example, I want chips. There are an amazing varity within that 'lable', but it helps me find which asile to shop.

Well said 'Belle!!

AtLast · 06-01-2013, 03:28 AM

What is marginalizing and rather arrogant is the attempt to re-define or "update" anyone's self- identification. These are not simply terms, they describe human interaction and a dynamic between people of hstorical significance. And this dynamic among women has fought hard for inclusion for many years within the entire LGBTIQ umbrella.

GretaGable · 06-01-2013, 05:50 AM

I feel that each person should label themselves--or not label themselves--exactly as they see fit.

When I first realized my true sexuality, I was worried about not finding acceptance in the gay community because--frankly--I'm a femme attracted to other femmes. I love butches as friends, but there's just something about a pretty, feminine woman who is also strong and intelligent that just wildly attracts me.

Then I got to wondering just how butch or femme I really was. I wear makeup, I love flowers and flowery clothes, have hair past my shoulders, I have my apartment decorated in a distinctly Victorian style (or the Pepto Bismol pink motif, as some would call it), I stink at sports and have the mechanical skills of a tse tse fly. On the other hand I detest clothes shopping, am a fierce feminist in my political beliefs, have a tall, sturdy frame, don't go in for perms or manicures, and prefer comfy but colorful pantsuits over dresses.

Also, I wondered, should I really self-identify as lesbian? In my 20s I had some very passionate sexual and romantic relationships with men--all of whom had long hair and beautiful features.

Even now there are certain male celebs--everyone from actors Emmanuel Delcour, Channing Tatum and the late, great Patrick Swayze to musicians like Andy Biersack and Ashley Purdy from the band Black Veil Brides--that make my heart and other parts go all aflutter. Really, though, the average guy on the street does nothing for me, at least not in a romantic or sexual way.

Ultimately, I realized that all of the time I spent trying to analyze and categorize myself could be better spent toward building my career and character, toward thinking of others instead of focusing on myself. What's most important to me is that I try at all times to be a loving, hardworking, strong and giving person; the rest just kind of falls into place.

Greta

SaltyButch · 06-01-2013, 06:44 PM

Well this is a discussion I have to weigh in on, I am not a fan of labels, yet I find as I discover more about myself certain ones are applicable. I no doubt will give away my age when I say that I identified as gay for many many years and if asked that is the first response I will give. Now that I've come into this dynamic I find that the gentlemanly behaviours I display are known as Old School Butch who knew.

Are these terms marginalizing people or merely helping those who have nothing but a nickname identify those who they may be interested in. On the other hand I find that terms that have survived the test of time may be considered antiquated but they served and continue to serve a purpose.

So I shall gladly raise my hand and say that I am a lesbian butch who is gay and who embraces the b/f dynamic and is Old Fashioned and Old School and dang proud of it.

On a site such as this a "label" is only an introduction, the person is who you want to get to know.

Licious · 06-01-2013, 08:24 PM

I am greatly enjoying this thread.... appreciate everyone weighing in. I see how important it is for us to accept each other for the wonderful variety we bring. I admit there was a time I was brainwashed to be stand offish towards those I didn't understand very well. Now I learn and educate myself, and let love guide the way.

dykeumentary · 06-01-2013, 08:38 PM

Lately I've been enjoying calling myself a homosexual. As in "the same"- I am a woman who is sexual with other women. How did that term become subversive again?
Also it's been fun being an older butch dyke. It makes me smile when I see 20something gender queers sneaking looks at me. Makes me want to get a black cloak and a scythe, and point to them with a bony finger outstretched and pronounce "Yes. I am the Ghost of Lesbian Yet To Come! These are the chains I have forged in this life!" (a la Dickens), Then cackle manically.
I just am tickled every day to be a butch, and thankful every day that Femmes exist who like butch women.

12-05-2012, 03:03 PM	#2
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,446 Times in 7,284 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I guess I don't really care if butch/femme are antiquated terms or if it makes me marginalized. I am a femme. I am attracted, in every possible way there is, to butch women. It is as natural to me as breathing. It just is my life. __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

12-08-2012, 08:18 PM	#3
puddin' Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: a genderqueer nuisance Preferred Pronoun?: bitchboi Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 7,120 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,467 Thanked 7,962 Times in 2,340 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	i'm butch as, i'm old skool and i make no apologies about it. i like bein' a colourful boi, too. i yam what i yam... __________________ be true, be you, be brave.

01-05-2013, 04:16 PM	#4
Finn Member How Do You Identify?: Old School Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Hy Relationship Status: Me and my lil doggie too.... Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: MA. Where the Skies are Blue and the Mountains are Green.. Posts: 355 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 333 Thanked 262 Times in 112 Posts Rep Power: 1957128	Hello e/Everyone; I am an Old School Butch/Daddy and I find it hard to find an Old School Femme/Babygirl lately.. Many claim to be Old School yet at times I've found that "label" not correct for them.. In Massachusetts especially the lack of real Old School Femmes/Babygirls are to me anyways,, non existent.. I love being attentive to my Babygirl and doing things to surprise and make her happy.. One day I hope to find my other half,, and hear her call me Daddy again.. Til then I just do what I do and make every day count S.. I wish you a/All the best of the New Year and hope e/Everyone stays warm and safe.. Finn __________________ “To change in meaningful ways, we must become conscious of Ego and how it shapes our narratives, thus behavior over time."- Albert Einstein “Anyone can become angry – that is easy, but to be angry with the right person at the right time and for the right purpose and in the right way – that is not within everyone’s power and that is not easy.” - Aristotle "Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." —Laurence Peter

06-01-2013, 05:50 AM	#7
GretaGable Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Xena femme Relationship Status: Single Join Date: May 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 16 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4 Thanked 56 Times in 14 Posts Rep Power: 1319531	Butch/Femme I feel that each person should label themselves--or not label themselves--exactly as they see fit. When I first realized my true sexuality, I was worried about not finding acceptance in the gay community because--frankly--I'm a femme attracted to other femmes. I love butches as friends, but there's just something about a pretty, feminine woman who is also strong and intelligent that just wildly attracts me. Then I got to wondering just how butch or femme I really was. I wear makeup, I love flowers and flowery clothes, have hair past my shoulders, I have my apartment decorated in a distinctly Victorian style (or the Pepto Bismol pink motif, as some would call it), I stink at sports and have the mechanical skills of a tse tse fly. On the other hand I detest clothes shopping, am a fierce feminist in my political beliefs, have a tall, sturdy frame, don't go in for perms or manicures, and prefer comfy but colorful pantsuits over dresses. Also, I wondered, should I really self-identify as lesbian? In my 20s I had some very passionate sexual and romantic relationships with men--all of whom had long hair and beautiful features. Even now there are certain male celebs--everyone from actors Emmanuel Delcour, Channing Tatum and the late, great Patrick Swayze to musicians like Andy Biersack and Ashley Purdy from the band Black Veil Brides--that make my heart and other parts go all aflutter. Really, though, the average guy on the street does nothing for me, at least not in a romantic or sexual way. Ultimately, I realized that all of the time I spent trying to analyze and categorize myself could be better spent toward building my career and character, toward thinking of others instead of focusing on myself. What's most important to me is that I try at all times to be a loving, hardworking, strong and giving person; the rest just kind of falls into place. Greta

06-01-2013, 08:24 PM	#9
Licious Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she, her Relationship Status: single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Posts: 686 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,502 Thanked 1,971 Times in 546 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I am greatly enjoying this thread.... appreciate everyone weighing in. I see how important it is for us to accept each other for the wonderful variety we bring. I admit there was a time I was brainwashed to be stand offish towards those I didn't understand very well. Now I learn and educate myself, and let love guide the way. __________________ Don’t be satisfied with stories, how things have gone with others. Unfold your own myth. ~Rumi

12-05-2012, 12:54 PM	#1
TxBelle Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, etc Relationship Status: single Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Based in Austin area, TX. I travel a lot. Posts: 298 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 85 Thanked 133 Times in 45 Posts Rep Power: 197685	I find lables helpful. To me, it's like a shopping guide. Example, I want chips. There are an amazing varity within that 'lable', but it helps me find which asile to shop.

06-01-2013, 03:28 AM	#6
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	What is marginalizing and rather arrogant is the attempt to re-define or "update" anyone's self- identification. These are not simply terms, they describe human interaction and a dynamic between people of hstorical significance. And this dynamic among women has fought hard for inclusion for many years within the entire LGBTIQ umbrella.

06-01-2013, 06:44 PM	#8
SaltyButch Member How Do You Identify?: Old School Butch Preferred Pronoun?: he/she/hey you..... Relationship Status: open to the possibilities Tournaments Won: 5 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: mississauga ontario canada Posts: 345 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 432 Thanked 1,633 Times in 301 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Well this is a discussion I have to weigh in on, I am not a fan of labels, yet I find as I discover more about myself certain ones are applicable. I no doubt will give away my age when I say that I identified as gay for many many years and if asked that is the first response I will give. Now that I've come into this dynamic I find that the gentlemanly behaviours I display are known as Old School Butch who knew. Are these terms marginalizing people or merely helping those who have nothing but a nickname identify those who they may be interested in. On the other hand I find that terms that have survived the test of time may be considered antiquated but they served and continue to serve a purpose. So I shall gladly raise my hand and say that I am a lesbian butch who is gay and who embraces the b/f dynamic and is Old Fashioned and Old School and dang proud of it. On a site such as this a "label" is only an introduction, the person is who you want to get to know.

06-01-2013, 08:38 PM	#10
dykeumentary Member How Do You Identify?: butch dyke Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 449 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 341 Thanked 1,548 Times in 359 Posts Rep Power: 19160663	Lately I've been enjoying calling myself a homosexual. As in "the same"- I am a woman who is sexual with other women. How did that term become subversive again? Also it's been fun being an older butch dyke. It makes me smile when I see 20something gender queers sneaking looks at me. Makes me want to get a black cloak and a scythe, and point to them with a bony finger outstretched and pronounce "Yes. I am the Ghost of Lesbian Yet To Come! These are the chains I have forged in this life!" (a la Dickens), Then cackle manically. I just am tickled every day to be a butch, and thankful every day that Femmes exist who like butch women.