Spoiling our Dogs and Puppies

ButchEire · 01-06-2013, 10:31 AM

I know you're trying to help him feel better but in reality, holding him close when he's afraid of the fire is reinforcing his fear. Ignoring him (making sure he is safe, of course) and rewarding with praise, etc. when he becomes calm is the best way to reinforce your goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words

One of O/our Yorkies is petrified of the crackling of the fire. W/we've tried holding him close in the hope this will help but he just continues to shiver so W/we've basically given up.

Funny thing is, he has no problem with fireworks. Yours?

Words

Words · 01-06-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButchEire

I know you're trying to help him feel better but in reality, holding him close when he's afraid of the fire is reinforcing his fear. Ignoring him (making sure he is safe, of course) and rewarding with praise, etc. when he becomes calm is the best way to reinforce your goal.

Thanks. I just went and did what I should have done before and read the posts that preceded mine.

It's just such a pity. I hate the idea of him being upstairs all by himself - our home is 300 years old and very draughty - but if that's what he needs to do, then that's what he needs to do. (We've tried the reward/praise idea but again, no go.)

Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

Words

ButchEire · 01-06-2013, 10:43 AM

Dogs and animals in general pick up on your emotional energy and he may also be reflecting your angst (for want of a better word) about his discomfort. This would thwart the goal of his own calm-ness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words

Thanks. I just went and did what I should have done before and read the posts that preceded mine.

It's just such a pity. I hate the idea of him being upstairs all by himself - our home is 300 years old and very draughty - but if that's what he needs to do, then that's what he needs to do. (We've tried the reward/praise idea but again, no go.)

Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

Words

pajama · 01-06-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro

In dog obedience training we learned it was better not to reinforce a dog's fear by holding them physically close (as that is basically rewarding the fearful behavior).

Instead, these classes trained human companions to engage the dog in performing a different activity (like heeling, sitting, laying down, or coming when called) for which the dog is rewarded by verbal praise and/or a small treat.

This technique distracts the dog from the fear inducing situation or thing and also reinforces good activity and behavior via training -- which many dogs enjoy since they have our undivided attention. In addition, they are given an opportunity to please and thus be rewarded. Reward = Happy

It may take several short sessions, building up over a period of time, to desensitize a dog to something which is fear inducing. And it may only help to a degree, but perhaps it's worth a try?

It's funny, although I seldom watch Dog Whisperer, I happened to watch an episode yesterday that had a dog displaying this type of behavior over a screen door. First, you're right, Cesar said do not go to the dog or coddle the dog when he is displaying fear as it reinforces "Yes you're right, you're in danger, and I as your Alpha will protect you from it." Second, at the moment, the dog is only in fight-or-flight mode. And no amount of training will sink in. You have to break the fear. What Cesar did was kept walking up to the screen (or fire in your case) with the dog on the leash. Even though the dog pulled and tried to get away he would just hold steady there. He wouldn't talk to the dog, he wouldn't PRAISE the dog, because the dog would think the praise is for the fear not for just standing there. Insert disclaimer here of do not try this at home, Cesar is a trained professional, blah, blah, blah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desd

The random, severe shaking is new though, and there has not been anything I've heard that will cause it. Sometimes she will lay between us and the couch and shove her nose in the corner and just shake

This may just be because somehow the original fear has been reinforced (unwittingly, I mean until I saw the show yesterday I would have done all the same things to try and comfort the dog.). So now the dog thinks, "Oh there is danger here. Well is that danger? What about that? Over there, what's that?"

I don't really know what to say to help fix it. Just what I've heard that might make it worse. I guess you have to think like the alpha and think of things that would show you're not afraid of whatever.

A

Bard · 01-06-2013, 11:25 AM

I was not home for new years but Desd said she was crazy scared with the fireworks.. With the fireplace I try to just have her sit by me so she can feel secure and stoke her telling her mamas got you bubba dog kind of how I would try to soothe my daughter when she was very small. when it is the random shaking for no apparent reason that was when I try to hold her close . Grace even goes to her and kisses her face . they react differently Grace was a stray and she was abused at some point. Phoebe was tossed in a shelter when she was weened so she did not get human socialization and she is very shy since we got Grace Phoebe is much more outgoing . With Desd and I phobe is very loving

bright_arrow · 01-06-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Oh, I see about the upstairs.

Does it make sense to you, as Bard says, that it could be related to her being out during the 4th of July? It really seems to be a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder like humans get. Any trigger (in this case, fire which crackles like a firecracker), makes her feel as if the event is happening again.

The random shaking happens during times there is no loud noises and no fires? Just randomly out of the blue? Did it start right after she was found OR did it start after you started making fires in the fireplace?

<---human therapist

Yes, the shaking often happens out of the blue. If there is loud noises, it will happen too of course. Just a few minutes ago they heard a sound outside and went beserk barking, then Phoebe was on my feet shaking like a twig. I am going to say the shaking started anytime we had a fire after we had gotten her back.. so all we can think of is a PTSD from when she was out and about.

The shaking thing though, she does when she is nervous sometimes, always has, but this is more extreme and she fights you if you try to hold her. Before if she was scared of say someone new and was a little shaky, you could hold her and she'd be okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words

One of O/our Yorkies is petrified of the crackling of the fire. W/we've tried holding him close in the hope this will help but he just continues to shiver so W/we've basically given up.

Funny thing is, he has no problem with fireworks. Yours?

Words

Fireworks freak her out. The crackling of the fire has no effect on her - we tried the fireplace on Netflix that has the crackling sound and she paid no mind to it - so I wonder if she is associating the smell with the fires going on outside during the 4th of July?

DapperButch · 01-06-2013, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desd

so I wonder if she is associating the smell with the fires going on outside during the 4th of July?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Any behavior or fear around fire or loud, unepxected sounds AFTER being gone I bet would be connected to 4th of July. PTSD.

Any behavior that was in place prior to being lost during the 4th would be something else.

I would bet a dog behaviorist would have a different approach for treating a dog's fear response that is due to "trauma", then they would for a fear response that is not a result of trauma. But, maybe not. That is why going to meet with your vet is a good idea. It seems rather complicated, and I would worry that it could be damaging if you did anything besides just letting her "do her thing" when she is scared...if she wants to be close, let her be close, if she wants to run as far away as she can, then let her do that. I personally wouldn't try any other tactic unless a vet told me what to do. You don't want to make it worse for her.

christie · 01-06-2013, 08:49 PM

Even the girls at Starbucks are in on the spoiling of Felix... he gets his own, gratis, "pupacino"... a very small cup of whipped cream.

He goes NUTS for this... Bratboy usually gets a vanilla bean frap.... Felix sees it andstartsto garbling, whining and trying his damnedest to get to it... its funny as all hell to watch...

Its not a frequent treat for him, so I don't worry about it too much. It makes him happy and I get a giggle out of it!

choochoo-enginerd · 01-06-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie

Even the girls at Starbucks are in on the spoiling of Felix... he gets his own, gratis, "pupacino"... a very small cup of whipped cream.

He goes NUTS for this... Bratboy usually gets a vanilla bean frap.... Felix sees it andstartsto garbling, whining and trying his damnedest to get to it... its funny as all hell to watch...

Its not a frequent treat for him, so I don't worry about it too much. It makes him happy and I get a giggle out of it!

Yah....and we won't dicuss in detail any adverse effects of whip cream on the pooch, just that it brings him joy....and his mama and pops joy to indulge him for a moment! The girls at starbucks luuuuuv him <3

01-06-2013, 11:25 AM	#5
Bard Family Man How Do You Identify?: TG Male Preferred Pronoun?: Masculine ones Relationship Status: She just gets me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ..... Posts: 2,828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,997 Thanked 12,786 Times in 2,431 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I was not home for new years but Desd said she was crazy scared with the fireworks.. With the fireplace I try to just have her sit by me so she can feel secure and stoke her telling her mamas got you bubba dog kind of how I would try to soothe my daughter when she was very small. when it is the random shaking for no apparent reason that was when I try to hold her close . Grace even goes to her and kisses her face . they react differently Grace was a stray and she was abused at some point. Phoebe was tossed in a shelter when she was weened so she did not get human socialization and she is very shy since we got Grace Phoebe is much more outgoing . With Desd and I phobe is very loving __________________ This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! Give yourself over to absolute pleasure. Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh - erotic nightmares beyond any measure, and sensual daydreams to treasure forever. Can't you just see it? Don't dream it, be it.

01-06-2013, 08:49 PM	#8
christie Member How Do You Identify?: A Force with which to be reckoned Preferred Pronoun?: just be nice... Relationship Status: I call her Mine Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Transplanted to the PNW Posts: 1,246 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,552 Thanked 2,476 Times in 706 Posts Rep Power: 14753263	Even the girls at Starbucks are in on the spoiling of Felix... he gets his own, gratis, "pupacino"... a very small cup of whipped cream. He goes NUTS for this... Bratboy usually gets a vanilla bean frap.... Felix sees it andstartsto garbling, whining and trying his damnedest to get to it... its funny as all hell to watch... Its not a frequent treat for him, so I don't worry about it too much. It makes him happy and I get a giggle out of it!