Masculine of Center -- the term

[nowandthen]

Originally Posted by Boots13

I have to leave for work soon, but wanted to briefly comment on two things:

Do you think our conservative ethos is born of ethical, moral and a generational correctness (it used to be called PC, but that term feels antiquated and inflammatory to me?) That we want change, but rather than the huge sweeping rallies of the 60's/70's and the subversive violence of the 80's/90's that protested many huge issues , Activism today is directed toward its specific causes? Activism then feels less radical due to its smaller scales though more frequent incidents...

And I also wanted to throw out there, I dont know how to proudly claim Butch, without setting up an exclusionary dynamic. If the term Butch is white-centric, and if using the word Butch sets up a bias whats my next best-practice for disassembling that exclusion without diluting my identification ??? Or is it the ultimate goal to NOT have discriptors and live in a fluid world of humans "being"... in which case having NO words or descriptors is a slippery slope to homogeny.

my head is still trying to wrap around the white-centric dynamic of claiming Butch , when I was stuck on the white-MALE-centric association of Center !

I want to say that this medium is always a hard place to talk through and listen too different folks. I do not know most folks on here and can not know intention or tone. This topic gender and race can and often times feel personal, I try to use I statements and use information that I have read or heard to inform my unlearning. I am not here to attack, change or shame anyone. I am here to add to the knowledge pile so folks can make there own decision and I too can learn from you all as well.

I think Butch is not exclusively a white centered word. I think what I was saying about the tools of white supremacy included the concept of PC. That term for me is again born of the power to name. It arrived from my thinking from those on the right in a push back against all the folks demanding rights, access and visibility. I think there is a big difference with self-reflection of how one benefits or does not benefit from a system set up to create difference to make a few rich and powerful at the expense of others. Capitalism is at the root of the system of difference, the need for a working class, the need to believe there is such a thing as a middle class. If you get a pay check it does not matter how many zero's are on it you work for someone else. Very few live off the interest of the money made by others. But I digress sort of, their is a link to all of this and that is power and money.

It has taking me many years to understand how white guilt and liberal politics often keep me from seeing my own privilege.Because they are self-policing tools to keep me in support of difference. Again it is hard to both be white and work against structural racism. But we all have internal bias's that must be worked on, and us white folks are not the only folks that have racial judgements, and as I say that I want to be clear there is no such thing as reverse racism which works in a power-over model racial bias while also making generalizations base on melatonin operates is many different combinations of power and access.So I have no shame about being white, what I do have is sadness about how racism hurts me too. I have understand the difference between individual and structural racism, I must understand that my experience though similar in some ways is different because of how being white works in the world, I must keep working on not being defensive when I am called out, and I must not feel shame for something I did not create. White guilt is a PC concept that paralyzes the work we as white folks must do. Being Butch is not the same, I may be seen as a white man when I walk in the restroom, I am not read as a POCman though I may have some similar experiences like the "look that I can not read, pervert etc" I am not read the same as many of POC friends who id Butch friends. That is for me important to remember in these conversation is two or more things can be happening at once, and the yes I can understand those things that are similar, I do not know what is is to not be white, so I must believe those who are and telling me where they are have additional experiences and not personalize it, but hear it. Anyway, One group of folks I know doing great work is Dr. Shakti Butler and her organization at Worldtrust.org. THe have use film as an educational platform, they have short clips on the web page that are helpful and I watch all the time because I hear something new each time. We all come to this at different moments in our lives, what we do not get to do is arrive at some finish line that gives us a certificate in race or gender awareness, because like everything else, all white folks do not have the same story, we have being white in common but how that works in our lives is not the same in California as it is in Texas or New York, some of us have single parents, some of us have lost our parents. So, my story criss crosses yours. I use this example sometimes to help understand with compassion and not shame, I still have both my parents, so when a friend says they lost one or both at anypoint in there like, my first empathetic PC response is to say I understand, because I have lost friends, grandparents, but that is not the same as losing a parent so my words are hallow with good intention. I have learned to say, I do not know what is like to lose a parent, I do understand the grief process as I have had loss, How can I support you. It seems a simple thing but when applied across race and gender and most everything, it allows me to not know and yet have something in common. I hope that made sense. Anyway off I go thanks to all adding to my growth

[Martina]

Re progressive and lgbt organizations and race.

First, I am out of touch and intend to stay that way -- in terms of being active in groups and organizations (there are a few exceptions, none of them queer).

But when I was more involved and active, it was nearly impossible to keep a representative number of PoC participating. Our privilege showed. When people of color took came around, they were welcomed, but shit still happened. There were exceptions, but people still cycled in and out. People always do. But a larger proportion of the PoC didn't stay.

I think the fights that sometimes occurred around these issues were educational. But they weren't transformative of the organizations I was involved in. Two sorta got taken over by POC in a direct effort to make changes on this issue. Anyway, these groups changed. But when white leadership and a white majority were maintained, there was never enough growth in the groups *I* have been involved in to make it a welcoming enough environment that PoC did not come and go like there was a revolving door.