Butch visibility

[Rockinonahigh]

I couldn't find the righ place to put this so please excuse me if this dosen't reason for the tread.
O.k hear it is.I leave for Vegas for a pool tournament with my ladies 8 ball team on the 14th of this month we have been a team for three years so know each other pretty well.We planed on all pileing up into two ajoining rooms...all eight of us.Most of them have no problem being in some stage of undress in the rooms,normaly this wouldn't be aproblem if I were straight but i'm not..not by a long shot.When we were being fitted for our team uniforms it was like a rolling strip joint at the tailors haveing shirts/pants altered to fit.I had to have my pants hemed as well as my shirt fitted a bit better so it wouldn't sag like a over large bag..I cant help if I have broad shoulders from lifting weights plus my arms are fairly bulked up with ment I had to get a shirt a sise larger to make it work.Well when I droped down to my skivies and binder they just staired,one had the guts to say ..you don;t wear girly undies?No says I,I go for what I feel good about wearing,besides I don't need to explane what wear.Most I doubt will have a problem but I really think a couple will.Other than getting my own room wich I can't afford this may or may not be slightly uncomfortable issue..Me,i'm not locker room shy but no matter how lebarated they may be..well they may really not be.Any ideas or recomendations will be greatly appresheated.Or I may well be just an old worry wart,dealing with straights can be difficult at times.

[LexiLove]

I am shaking with anger after reading some of these posts. I cannot understand how people can treat others like some of you have been treated. I am about to possiblly be very corny or ovely mushy but butches are ahhhhmazing. The ones I know are strong, intelligent, charming, chivalrous and yet are also soft, romantic, loving people. The perfect blend of everything good in the world. I tell my girlfriend that she should write a book to men teaching them how to be good, solid people. Obviously, I don't mean ALL men but the many I have known were useless humans. I am VERY protective of my butch but am also very protective of my butch friends and my FTM friend. I love butches, each and every one of you.

[Bino85]

This is such a great topic. I have been a very visible Butch for over a decade. Its something I have had to grow into. I have always been very confident and comfortable with the way I look. It's just me. I get called Sir or young man all the time. It always makes me smile, i never correct anyone. I think of it like a compliment they dont know they are giving. Even my father introduces me to people as his other son.
Reading through there posts I really feel for some. I been very lucky in my part of the world. People seem pretty accepting. Although i feel ya'll on the bathroom front. My first time getting called out in the bathroom I was 18. It was a little girl (maybe 4). She asked her mom why there was a boy in the bathroom. After that my path was so clear. I get looks and comments all the time in public bathrooms. I think its funny, I just smile say hi and go about my business. When Im at the bar I always take a buddy. Drunk women get very defencive, but I would rather deal with drunk women then drunk dudes. Lucky for me all the bounced i have met that came to kick me out of the bathrooms always know right away what is going on. I have yet to be thrown out of a bar.
I am very comfortable with who i am and how i look. I feel like I rock the look. I know Im lucky have had so much positive support in my life. Props to all who rise to the top though the struggle.

Oh, someone was talking about scanning crowds for trouble makers. I do the same thing! Im sure I always will.

[mountainbikedyke]

Great thread!

I've never really had many negative issues while moving through life as a masculine woman... I'm comfortable with who I am and confident in all aspects of my life, and have been extremely lucky to have such a supportive family.

I have also had two careers where being masculine in appearance and dominant in personality has been to my advantage, and I know I'm lucky in this respect as well. Being sturdily built has also benefitted me.

It's appalling to me that my butch comrades have endured such treatment at the hands of ignorant fuckers! Knowing myself, I probably wouldn't have handled someone getting physical with me in as civilized a manner as those who have posted above.

Sadly, I have to say the most discrimination I've witnessed as a butch has been within the lesbian community. Butches, because of our outward appearance, got the shit kicked out of us in the past (Some still do, clearly.) and really paved the way for our community, only to now be seen as some sort of sub-culture.

[Paradox]

Great Thread.

I haven't had any dangerous issues with visibility and perhaps here in Canada there is more tolerance (not perfect by no means). I have heard of the rude, derogatory comments some of my friends received because of their appearance. There's a price to pay - the public scrutiny, community ridicule. It's like going through high school all over again. I always been thick skinned, but there are times that it is annoying can be hurtful.

I've experienced the 'what are you?' look on the faces of people I would meet for the first time who can not figure out if I am male or female. I don't scream dyke 24/7 but for many I look like a lesbian/butch. I received the double take in regard to the public washrooms on occasion, but again luckily nothing that would involve any confrontation.

Growing up tomboy, wearing my dads sweaters whenever I can, and preferring tees and slacks/jeans over skirt and dress is more natural for me.

I don't necessarily go out of may way to 'be' butch or non-femme. I have a naturally stronger masculine features. And it can be beneficial at times as I am not easily harassed. But at the same time there are the assumptions of what a butch should wear or how they should behave. However, there some nice, intelligent folks, as one friend who was smart enough to know that even though I look butch, (especially stereotypical idea that butch must = tough and rough), he understood due my height and size the odds of me moving around rolls of flooring by myself that was practically as tall as I am and weighting almost 500lbs ea is unlikely and got me the help I needed. He did not place misconceived assumptions about me because of a label, but used some practical sense.

Public displays of affection is not my cup of tea, and I am even more cautious when I am with a date or when I was in a relationship simply because people can be stupid and do stupid things. Much rather prevent an incident from happening as I don't handle stupid very well.

[Soon]

Thoughts On Being A Butch

(by intheweeds on GroupThink/Jezebel)


"The game is basically surviving as a being a butch woman"

I recently came across this documentary called 'The Butch Mystique' from 2003. It's a wonderful film in which 9 Black butch lesbians speak about their experiences, thoughts and feelings. I urge you to watch it. If you are a butch, you will feel like I did - relieved and excited to hear others voicing your experiences. You will feel less alone for a few minutes. If you are straight or queer, but not butch, you will certainly learn something about the butch experience. The perspective of Black butches is also something we can all stand to hear from. Being misread as a male is an issue all butches have, but in part 2, we hear what it's like to be misread as a Black male.


(Videos of documentary: The Butch Mystique from 2003)

Watching this made me think about my own experiences, both with straight people and other lgbt people who do not share my experiences. Here are a few of them.

Am I trans? No. I have decided that some time ago. Butch women are women. I am a woman. Certainly though, my gender presentation is an integral part of my identity. I am read as male in most places. Even in the queer community, I feel a pressure to identify as trans at times. It's easier for people to understand, I think. Even myself. For some time when I was younger I played with it. I wore a packy, I bound my breasts (I really hate my breasts existence, even still I'm not comfortable with them), I took on a male name. Maybe I was a supposed to be a straight man? While I knew I would never be a feminine woman, I never felt quite right giving up my female identity completely. Eventually I realized that I could be both a woman and very masculine. Listening to the difference between the older and younger women in the documentary was interesting to me. I felt my identity as butch kind of disappearing recently. It was interesting to me to hear a younger woman talking about 'butch' as a title being for the older generation. It's clear that the name may not be used as often, but maybe butch isn't going away.

It's clear to me though, that sexual identity and gender identity are related in many people. Butch lesbians are a good example of this. While the gender and sexuality spectrums are not the same, they overlap in some people. As far as my experience, straight butch women are not really a thing. I have met many straight women who don't buy into the performance of gender, many who are more masculine than most, but I have never met anyone who I would consider a 'straight butch' (I reserve the right to change my mind if I ever meet one). I have never met a straight woman who is butch like I am and like I recognize in this film. This is clearly a lesbian phenomenon as far as I can see. It cannot simply be that butches are just very close to trans men on the gender spectrum, just not quite there. That cannot be so, since we know that trans men come in all sexuality, but butch as I am and as is portrayed in this film, it seems, is a lesbian specific identity. It seems to me that butch is a lesbian identity which is inherently also on the trans spectrum somewhere.

Because of this, it is entirely possible to be homophobic by being transphobic. I feel my lesbian identity being assaulted when I hear an assault against a trans person. After all, I basically look like a non-passing trans man every day. In fact, often I can and do pass as a man. Frankly, it's safer to pass than not. Any trans person will tell you that and it is the same for me. So if I can get away with it by lowering my voice or not speaking much, sometimes I will. I had an entire 20 minute lowered-voice conversation with a cab driver once on my way to my mom's and had him tell me my mother should be proud of such a 'great son' at the end of it. I have no way of knowing whether he would have thought the same if he knew I was a woman but I didn't feel like finding out that day.

Another thought I had while watching this was that I, like some of these women, feel like I am in a small minority. It's not often that I find myself in a room with another butch. Queer people are everywhere, but those that share my unique experiences are far between for me, it seems. It was so refreshing to hear. The bathroom issues, the faked and forced femininity for family, the violence. The violence from men. The pain and hurt it causes that we don't acknowledge enough. The pain in this woman's face when she was speaking about men's reactions to her was so apparent and familiar to me. It crushed me because I recognized it as my truth as well.


Butches are subject to hatred and violence from men because we don't perform for them. Seriously. That is how much men expect women to please them. If you refuse too much, some will literally fight you. We stand in the furthest spot from pleasing them that they can think of - we are almost men. My experience has been one of three reactions from men. The first is the best and the one we all want to achieve: a normal dude with no hangups treats me like a normal person. The other two are not as positive. Either they hate me or they want to be my best friend because I am one of the guys, but as a woman, I can help them with other women or other such bullshit. While it's nice to be joked around with and treated well, I am well aware of the differences between how they treat me and how they treat other women. They don't see me as a real woman and that plays into so many lesbian stereotypes I can't even.

On the subject of stereotypes, I am aware that I embody them. So many lesbian stereotypes are basically about the freaky, ugly wanna-be-men butches. Lesbians all look like men, lesbians love power tools, lesbians all cut their hair short, lesbians are ugly (read: lesbians do not perform femininity for men - this is a big problem for them). I have heard from certain members of the lgbt community that "if i didn't insist on looking like such a dyke, I would experience less oppression". That is pretty close to a direct quote from one example, but I have heard this sentiment from many people both straight and lgbt.

The fact that I am the 'freak' the straight people latched onto to deride and mock lesbians means that I am bad for the cause to some people. I tend to rage pretty strongly against this line of thinking whenever I hear it winding up, but the reason I rage so hard is that this thought is already a part of my internal dialogue! I rage when I hear this because do you think I don't fucking know that? Of course if I looked and acted more like the 'ideal' straight white person that I would experience fewer problems. I don;t know if many butches talk about this, but the pressure to be anything but me is so strong. It seems so easy to just grow out your hair, wear clothes from the women's department, but it's not. I play with trying out women's things sometimes, maybe I should try and wear eyeliner? I could try that. Maybe I would look a tiny bit more like a woman and people would believe I was a woman? It wouldn't be much and I would still be me right? That eyeliner is gathering dust in my medicine cabinet right now. I'm just not cut out to be feminine.

I can't change. Even if I tried. Even if I wanted to.

[Soon]

Photographer Meg Allen Explores 'Butch Imagery' With New Project

Oakland-based photographer Meg Allen embarked on a photography project last spring to explore how the idea of a "butch" woman has changed over time.

Allen joined HuffPost Live's Marc Lamont Hill on Friday to talk about what exactly she was trying to understand with her work.

"I really wanted to show the variety of butch women that were in my community," Allen said. "There had been a lot of social media and Instagram and all these things, and I felt like there was this lapse in butch imagery, so I really wanted to kind of bring that back to the limelight.”

The discourse around butch women has certainly changed over time. Some feel there has been a shift in how younger generations evaluate sexual identity. Allen said the term "butch" includes many more types of people than it did before:

"There has been a lot of terms changing over the last 10 years. A lot of people use 'masculine of center,' or they’ll use 'boi' [spelled] b-o-i, or 'stud.' And I think traditionally the word was generally more of a white term for more masculine women, and so I just wanted to explore if that term is still relevant and what it looked like. It was more an exploration into what does that word mean, what does it look like now, and I that found it meant a variety of things, which is why I’ve taken so many different types of portraits of different types of butch women."
Below are examples of some of Allen's work from her "Butch" project: