Adult Children Moving Home

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

This!

I loved living with my Mom and my family later in her life, and i enjoy living with my soon to be 20 year old now. Many cultures revere family life, and many generations live together.

Yes i want my child to be strong and independant when it is the right time, but i am going to enjoy every minute i have before she goes.

I think this raises an interesting point. The conversation thus far has focused on traditional American thinking of the last hundred years or so. Other countries and cultures view this subject very differently.

I live in a very culturally diverse town. People from all over the world. Particularly when it comes to Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Next-door to me is a family originally from the Philippines who have lived in their home for 30 years and there are three generations there, it is because they want it that way. Another family bought a house across the street about a year ago, it is a multi generational Chinese family. Two months ago house three doors down just changed hands, it is a four generation family from Iran. All of these families are doing it by choice, as their culture dictates, and additionally they're able to pool their resources.

I believe this is very different than what we have been discussing so far. I am not advocating for slacker kids looking for a free ride and the people I'm describing are not at all like that. Everybody works, and hard, at whatever the role is in the household.

I think sometimes it is a good idea to step back and remember that the United States is not the world, and that the way our economy and the world's economies are shifting may force us to change some of our current living situations. What we have here, with one person per apartment and one generation family homes, is a first world choice.

Not trying to derail the thread, I just wanted to toss another perspective in there.

[Gráinne]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I think this raises an interesting point. The conversation thus far has focused on traditional American thinking of the last hundred years or so. Other countries and cultures view this subject very differently.

I live in a very culturally diverse town. People from all over the world. Particularly when it comes to Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Next-door to me is a family originally from the Philippines who have lived in their home for 30 years and there are three generations there, it is because they want it that way. Another family bought a house across the street about a year ago, it is a multi generational Chinese family. Two months ago house three doors down just changed hands, it is a four generation family from Iran. All of these families are doing it by choice, as their culture dictates, and additionally they're able to pool their resources.

I believe this is very different than what we have been discussing so far. I am not advocating for slacker kids looking for a free ride and the people I'm describing are not at all like that. Everybody works, and hard, at whatever the role is in the household.

I think sometimes it is a good idea to step back and remember that the United States is not the world, and that the way our economy and the world's economies are shifting may force us to change some of our current living situations. What we have here, with one person per apartment and one generation family homes, is a first world choice.

Not trying to derail the thread, I just wanted to toss another perspective in there.

Yes! I live next door to a Chinese family (immigrants): a young couple in their 20's, their 1.5 year old son, and (probably) the husband's parents. Now and then, other relatives seem to live with them for awhile. This was the same pattern I found in China itself, in much smaller apartments as well.

My students and I got into a discussion about this topic, in fact, and they were amazed that the "goal" for most American teenagers is to grow up and move out into their own place. Not many American women really want to live with their mothers-in-law; it was just the "done" thing there, whether you liked your MIL or not. From there, we got into topics such as treatment of the elderly and family migration to other cities. There's all kinds of factors.

Strangely enough, as far as I know, the problem of the slacker adult child living perennially in the basement doesn't exist. Everyone pitches in. Next door, the grandparents watch the baby several days a week while the young couple work.

[DapperButch]

Yes, I actually wrote about (but then deleted) multi generational/ inter-generational households. I decided it was a different topic and didn't want to muddy the waters! Funny it was brought up by someone else!

[PoeticSilence]

I suppose I feel more like the Europeans do about family. I would have all of my children at home with me. I don't care if they pay rent. I don't care if they eat what's in the cabinets or do their laundry in the basement. All that really matters to me is to have them close and to share my life with them. I don't come from the kind of family that lives long, and extended family is something I never really had. I would never say go to a Laundromat, or do my laundry since you are down there, or anything like that. I would never turn my children out, because why have them spend the coins on rent somewhere else, when there's space here. How could I not make space for my own child? Even the child I share with my exgf? Or my wife's children. I never expect them to need a place to stay when they can come home. My children all do their own laundry, and choose to. They all pretty much buy their own food. The happiest days of my life would be when all the kids are around the dinner table and the meal is steaming in the center of the table.

I realize I'm not the norm in that ideology, but I've already lost so much time with most of my children, why would I waste anymore? I think it takes a special person to be able to love and accept your children for who they turned out to be and to be willing to always shelter them and care for them when they need it, or even when they do not. If they want to live on their own, I can accept that, but if they want to move home, they all know that I am dying for the privilege of sharing space with them.

[Martina]

I do see a fair number of twenty-somethings not doing well out there and returning home for reasons not primarily related to the economy or to serious mental or physical health issues.

Some of it, IMO, is the result of the different parenting styles that have prevailed for the last few decades. Parents and kids are a lot more involved with one another, and kids do depend on parents for more. Basically too much modeling and assisting, too much oversight, on the parent's part, and not enough trial and error on the child's part.

When I was growing up, unless kids were struggling in school, their parents barely knew what their homework was -- unless there was a major project, particularly one parents had to fork over some cash for.

It hasn't been as safe for kids to be as independent either. Or it has been recognized that it never was that safe for kids to be out and about on their own. At the same time, there are studies that show that unsupervised play is extremely important for development of executive function in children -- exactly what so many twenty-somethings seem to lack.

Also, imaginative social play is much better at developing executive function, especially regulation of emotions and self-discipline, than playing computer games and watching TV.

Then environmental health factors that increase anxiety and depression could play a role. Chronic low level anxiety and depression may not end up getting treated and can really affect brain development. Anxiety can be a factor in executive function deficits, as can PTSD and ADHD. In fact, ADHD and executive function deficits are strongly associated. Whatever affects memory and concentration can result in executive function deficits.

And then there is the whole gut-brain thing. The recent study about thin people having a more diverse population of bacteria in their gut is a piece of scientific evidence supporting what is still an alternative medicine theory. As someone with IBS, anxiety and depression, I am a believer. And this may be in part caused by the western diet -- and not just eating poorly, but eating foods like very high gluten wheat, which all of ours is now.

And just stress. Stress alone can cause kids to not learn to cope. Also lack of exercise can contribute. And we are clearly a more sedentary society with every generation.

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

And to be still developing these well into adulthood, when the consequences for mistakes are much more serious and when expectations are much higher, is tough, tough on everybody. There needs to be more support out there for people over 18 still struggling.

Again, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. At least more young people still struggling can continue to be covered by their parents' insurance (already in place) or can get insurance on their own. That will make life less scary. I wish our health care system were more responsive to developmental issues though.

[julieisafemme]

Wow Martina! I so appreciate your perspective as an educator. There are two sides to this coin. I grew up in the 70s and as you said my parents did not help with homework and were the opposite of helicopter parents! I was doing more things at my daughter's age than I can even imagine her doing. Leaving the house all day on Saturdays with a group of girls and taking the bus all over. Walking for hours without *gasp* a cell phone. My Mom had no idea where I was or what I was doing!

Flip side...I had OCD at age 10 and knew something was very wrong and never said squat to my parents. I was sexually abused and exposed to a flasher (so 70s!) AT SCHOOL when I was in the 4th grade.

My kid has OCD. Finally her Dad has agreed to get her the help she needs. Thank G-d she won't be 42 years old and still flailing about trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with her! My life changed dramatically when I was finally properly diagnosed.

I think we need a blend of the old school parenting and the new school parenting. It is hard to do when all your kid's friends have helicopter parents.

I hope my daughter will not come back to live with me. Not because I don't love her a lot but because I want her to live her own life.

The connection to anxiety and depression and learning is huge. Thank you for bringing that up.

Originally Posted by Martina

I do see a fair number of twenty-somethings not doing well out there and returning home for reasons not primarily related to the economy or to serious mental or physical health issues.

Some of it, IMO, is the result of the different parenting styles that have prevailed for the last few decades. Parents and kids are a lot more involved with one another, and kids do depend on parents for more. Basically too much modeling and assisting, too much oversight, on the parent's part, and not enough trial and error on the child's part.

When I was growing up, unless kids were struggling in school, their parents barely knew what their homework was -- unless there was a major project, particularly one parents had to fork over some cash for.

It hasn't been as safe for kids to be as independent either. Or it has been recognized that it never was that safe for kids to be out and about on their own. At the same time, there are studies that show that unsupervised play is extremely important for development of executive function in children -- exactly what so many twenty-somethings seem to lack.

Also, imaginative social play is much better at developing executive function, especially regulation of emotions and self-discipline, than playing computer games and watching TV.

Then environmental health factors that increase anxiety and depression could play a role. Chronic low level anxiety and depression may not end up getting treated and can really affect brain development. Anxiety can be a factor in executive function deficits, as can PTSD and ADHD. In fact, ADHD and executive function deficits are strongly associated. Whatever affects memory and concentration can result in executive function deficits.

And then there is the whole gut-brain thing. The recent study about thin people having a more diverse population of bacteria in their gut is a piece of scientific evidence supporting what is still an alternative medicine theory. As someone with IBS, anxiety and depression, I am a believer. And this may be in part caused by the western diet -- and not just eating poorly, but eating foods like very high gluten wheat, which all of ours is now.

And just stress. Stress alone can cause kids to not learn to cope. Also lack of exercise can contribute. And we are clearly a more sedentary society with every generation.

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

And to be still developing these well into adulthood, when the consequences for mistakes are much more serious and when expectations are much higher, is tough, tough on everybody. There needs to be more support out there for people over 18 still struggling.

Again, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. At least more young people still struggling can continue to be covered by their parents' insurance (already in place) or can get insurance on their own. That will make life less scary. I wish our health care system were more responsive to developmental issues though.

[DapperButch]

Martina, thanks for this excellent, excellent post. I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you spoke to poor executive functioning:

Originally Posted by Martina

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

I think the above is really what we aren't seeing in our early 20 year olds. I know that for me the self discipline and learning from past mistakes (and a sense of consequences), is what has been most concerning about our son, D.

You really are spot on with the above Martina.

Kids don't have to fail anymore, we grab them before they fall. Every kid gets a trophy. We don't give our children the opportunity to learn consequences. Even if the parents do well at allowing the consequences to happen at home, schools and recreational activities pick up the ball and don't let kids fail. Hell, if they don't, the parents attack them about it!

So, as Martina said, they have to learn through BIG adult lessons instead of the small ones they would experience as a child. They fail out of college because their high school teacher (often at parent's urging), didn't give them that F in English class that they deserved.

It is sad to think that what we do in "love" and what we do thinking it will improve self confidence and self esteem, can actually cripple our children instead. I will have to find the article I read that spoke about this.

Great discussion folks.

[Lady Pamela]

Back when I had my house. I had several times this happened.

I told my children to make sure they kept up whatever space they were in
Help with house chores to lighten my load.
Take turns making dinner and meals.
If they had children, Then to make sure al soiled laundry and diapers were taken care of.
I also asked for a bill to be taken care of.
And that money from each check while working was to go into a bank account or to me to save so that they could become self sufficient quicker.
As far as child sitting..I assisted of course. But I did not allow them to take advantage of that. "Unless I chose to of course."

If they had no job at the time, it was set that they would be looking strongly monday thru friday untill one was found.
Also that they would not have company over unless it was agreed on by all involved.

The trick is to keep it as calm and normal as possible,
And to respect each others personal time and space.

Not every time was so calm but for the most part, things ran smooth.

Also we decided that if there was an issue, no one would set on it. It would be brought to the table and handled.

As for times in and out. The only issue I had was respecting my sleep/quiet time.
That is very important to me so it is something I was very stern on.
Having understanding that they were an adult also helped that. So long as they were very quiet late night.
And that if they chose to party etc., That it was done later in the evening when all was done and preferably on the weekend when it didn't get in the wy of work or school.

But on the flip side, it was also a great time to re-conncet on a deeper level for a bit.
Sometimes this didnt happen but I tried very hard to use the time to build great relationships with them.
It also gave me quality time with my grandbabies.

There were times this wasn't so peachy but eventually we worked things out.

This wasn't a;ways easy but it was worth it to see my children secure, safe and progressing.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Lady Pamela

Back when I had my house. I had several times this happened.

I told my children to make sure they kept up whatever space they were in
Help with house chores to lighten my load.
Take turns making dinner and meals.
If they had children, Then to make sure al soiled laundry and diapers were taken care of.
I also asked for a bill to be taken care of.
And that money from each check while working was to go into a bank account or to me to save so that they could become self sufficient quicker.
As far as child sitting..I assisted of course. But I did not allow them to take advantage of that. "Unless I chose to of course."

If they had no job at the time, it was set that they would be looking strongly monday thru friday untill one was found.
Also that they would not have company over unless it was agreed on by all involved.

The trick is to keep it as calm and normal as possible,
And to respect each others personal time and space.

Not every time was so calm but for the most part, things ran smooth.

Also we decided that if there was an issue, no one would set on it. It would be brought to the table and handled.

As for times in and out. The only issue I had was respecting my sleep/quiet time.
That is very important to me so it is something I was very stern on.
Having understanding that they were an adult also helped that. So long as they were very quiet late night.
And that if they chose to party etc., That it was done later in the evening when all was done and preferably on the weekend when it didn't get in the wy of work or school.

But on the flip side, it was also a great time to re-conncet on a deeper level for a bit.
Sometimes this didnt happen but I tried very hard to use the time to build great relationships with them.
It also gave me quality time with my grandbabies.

There were times this wasn't so peachy but eventually we worked things out.

This wasn't a;ways easy but it was worth it to see my children secure, safe and progressing.

Pam, I really like the way you handed things when they were home. It sounds like you set it up where they had guidelines one might have with a child or an employee, but at the same time you operated with them on an adult to adult level. If that makes sense.

[stepfordfemme]

I want to call into question some things that are being said in this particular thread.

First, I would like to point out that the education system has failed my generation in many ways. I, personally, don't believe in the whole self esteem movement --in terms of children not failing, taking exams, etc. But I would also say that the other fundamental problem of education in the 90s/2000s --was it became normal for people to pay for training in whatever form-- *at their own expense*

It's easy for the baby boomers and the generation after to point fingers at my generation, saying its our fault that we are underemployed or whatever twist on it they would like to call it. The reality is twentysomethings are faced with a job crunch two fold. Baby boomers are staying working longer (for many reasons) & we are forced to shell out massive amounts of money to get advanced education for even entry level jobs. It used to be possible to start at the bottom and work your way into training, experience and security. Ha!!!! I've applied for entry level jobs that REQUIRED a 4 year degree that the starting wage was laughable. Job security is a thing of the past. Company loyalty is almost nonexistent because we saw our parents get laid off from companies that they had worked for after 10,15, 20+ years. We know uncertainty, because it happened to us.

It is not unheard of to spend tens of thousands to get a trades education--never heard of in previous generations! Companies used to PAY their tradespeople to get certified. Now pay for it yourself, and be unemployed for your 8 months of school!
Want to be a professional? Better be ready to pay 1/3 of your salary for the next 10 years for those two or three degrees.

Remember when there were massive cuts in the 80s and 90s and 00s to primary education and advanced education? Hello Reaganomics & that little ballon of government debt for two wars? Not to mention the looming retirement crisis? Last I checked those cuts benefited previous generations, not mine.


Yeah, those are only some of the reasons that college educated twentysomethings are having a hard time finding jobs.
Those of us that are LUCKY enough to finish post secondary education end up taking less than stellar jobs after university and are saddled with hefty student loan debt.

My generation was told to work hard in school. Go to university. Get a good job.

But it wasn't all flowers and roses afterwards-- please keep that in mind before you paint us all with the same brush. We were freshly minted graduates when that big ole recession hit.

I'd rather talk about some of the real reasons unemployment (and the after effect of moving back in with your parents) is so high for my generation--- lack of training by corporations passing the buck on to the worker for higher profits, real working wages, disappearance of unions, the student loan bubble , debt in society, the list keeps growing...

--a girl who had to move back in with mommy temporarily after university to survive.

[DapperButch]

Hi, stepfordfemme!

I am really glad that you joined the thread. I don't think there is a thing you said in your post I would argue.

For clarification, I was speaking to adult children who were not seeking out education, are not actively looking for work that could result in sustaining themselves outside of their parents home, and/or are not contributing to the home financially when they are able to. Completely different than what you are talking about. I believe that this is what others in the thread were speaking to, as well, unless otherwise noted (such as Martina's post).

To help with context, did you go to grade/high school in Canada and is that where you live now?

[cricket26]

thank you for all the encouragement and opinions...I don't mind helping my partners children...or my children...that is what parents are for...but I guess the problem is that I feel like my children are not as welcome in my home as her children...as most of you know teens are very territorial...and since my partners children are the ones living in the home with us...my children kind of get treated like "step children" this is what upsets me....I hope that clarifies things...

there are times I get very upset and we argue and fight...and it brings me to tears thinking about it...

the youngest has 2 more years of college and I don't know if I can do this....I never see my son...and I rarely see my daughter unless I am going to get my hair done...it is very hard....