top surgery

[Nadeest]

As a comment about Dr. Raphael, I did a consult with him, earlier this year, about transition related surgery, and felt very comfortable with him. I would certainly consider him for my surgeries. Unfortunately, he doesn't do bottom surgery for mtfs.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Nadeest

As a comment about Dr. Raphael, I did a consult with him, earlier this year, about transition related surgery, and felt very comfortable with him. I would certainly consider him for my surgeries. Unfortunately, he doesn't do bottom surgery for mtfs.

Hey, Nadeest, I just wanted to say that I hope that you either talk in this thread, or create a new one, for support from this community if/when you do get any trans related surgeries.

I don't think we have a thread for any other surgery (for any gender), besides this top surgery thread. I hope all members feel like they can share any surgery here at the Planet.

[Nadeest]

Will do, DapperButch. I went there to consult with him about an orchidectomy (um, this is where they remove the testicles, but not the testicular sac, which is useful for later SRS), which he does do, as well as breast augmentation and lipo. The nice thing was that he didn't think that I needed FFS (Facial Feminization Surgery) or a trachea shave.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Nadeest

Will do, DapperButch. I went there to consult with him about an orchidectomy (um, this is where they remove the testicles, but not the testicular sac, which is useful for later SRS), which he does do, as well as breast augmentation and lipo. The nice thing was that he didn't think that I needed FFS (Facial Feminization Surgery) or a trachea shave.

That is pretty great that you don't need any FFS or trachea shave! Awesome. I would bet that kind of surgery would be a painful recovery.

I know less about MTF surgeries than I do FTM. Since the testicles are being removed, does this mean one would no longer have to take t-blockers?

[DapperButch]

Hey, everyone! On 10/10/13, I had top surgery with Dr. Garramone in Florida. I had the double incision method. http://drgarramone.com/

My chest looks fantastic, and I couldn't be happier. It was a fantastic experience, and the man is a genuis.

As you all can see in my profile, I don't define as FTM, but as transgender butch (male leaning). I am not on testosterone. I thought it important to share that I got this surgery because I think that butches are getting these surgeries/thinking about getting these surgeries, but just aren't talking about it (I have seen them talk about it in the past, on other b/f forums). I am not sure why the change, I am wondering if butches getting top surgery is no longer supported by the community so they are afraid to talk about it? Don't know.

Anyway, it is the best thing I ever did. I agonized over the decision for 15 years. The struggle was not about whether or not I wanted a "male" chest, but how that would fit into my life as a person who professionally (and in some areas, personally), lives as female. I would be ok just binding for a few years and then it would rear its ugly head again. I would shove it back down and then carry on. I decided I was sick of dealing with it and the reality is that my presentation most likely wouldn't change all that much because my many years of binding had already resulted in looking pretty damn flat, anyway.

What I was hoping for and was pleased to see, is that you can still have a defined chest without testosterone. Although I know that some of it is swelling, Dr. Garramone was quick to point out that my definition is due to my own body composition. Again, I am extremely pleased.

I have a lot of information and suggestions to share with anyone considering getting this done. Being that we are mostly a b-f site, and it is mostly transmen that get this surgery, the discussion on this thread may not significantly increase, but I want to put out there that I would be happy to answer any questions on looking for a surgeon, the process, and recovery with all genders even though it is in the trans zone.

I considered posting this in the butch zone as I fear butches may not feel comfortable posting in the trans zone, but I think it is important all top surgery information/resources remain in one thread on this site (plus, of course I wanted to share with my trans* brothers and sisters here!). I think that Koop/The Oopster would welcome any gender who is considering top surgery, to this thread.

[BullDog]

Dapper, thank you so much for posting this. Those familiar with me on the site know I am a very proud butch woman and completely a She with no plans to transition. However, I am also a stone butch and not really in sync with my breasts. I would love to have top surgery and have thought about it for a long time. I have never seriously looked into it because I don't have the money for the surgery. I don't know if I will ever be able to afford it, or if my age will be an issue if I ever do have the money. I am 51 now. I also have wondered what issues it would raise for me, both medically and socially, if I did decide to do it. I don't know what issues would be different for someone like me who is not male or trans-identified.

We did have a discussion years ago on the Dash site with many butches who were not trans-identified who did discuss this issue. So that is why I decided to post. Thank you again Dapper.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Dapper, thank you so much for posting this. Those familiar with me on the site know I am a very proud butch woman and completely a She with no plans to transition. However, I am also a stone butch and not really in sync with my breasts. I would love to have top surgery and have thought about it for a long time. I have never seriously looked into it because I don't have the money for the surgery. I don't know if I will ever be able to afford it, or if my age will be an issue if I ever do have the money. I am 51 now. I also have wondered what issues it would raise for me, both medically and socially, if I did decide to do it. I don't know what issues would be different for someone like me who is not male or trans-identified.

We did have a discussion years ago on the Dash site with many butches who were not trans-identified who did discuss this issue. So that is why I decided to post. Thank you again Dapper.

Hey, Bulldog. Glad you posted. Maybe a thread in the Butch Zone for Butches (of all genders - women and third gendered, other?) to discuss top surgery is warranted. I didn't want to muddle the thread here with that discussion as I wanted to keep the focus on information/resources, as it was designed.

I would love to read/participate in a discussion over there. In respect of the butch zone, even though I identify as butch, I think it would be great if a non trans-identifying butch started that thread. What do you think?

Yes, the dash site is what I was referring to. I remember reading about it in the Transgender Butch section, but I hear you saying it was discussed elsewhere.

---------------

To respond to your comment about age, I can tell you that I have seen youtube videos of older people (admittedly, they were all on testosterone) who had top surgery. With a double incision the skin is cut and pulled tightly, so I don't really see age making a difference (if you are speaking to the issue of how our breasts/chests sag as we age).

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hey, everyone! On 10/10/13, I had top surgery with Dr. Garramone in Florida. I had the double incision method. http://drgarramone.com/

My chest looks fantastic, and I couldn't be happier. It was a fantastic experience, and the man is a genuis.

As you all can see in my profile, I don't define as FTM, but as transgender butch (male leaning). I am not on testosterone. I thought it important to share that I got this surgery because I think that butches are getting these surgeries/thinking about getting these surgeries, but just aren't talking about it (I have seen them talk about it in the past, on other b/f forums). I am not sure why the change, I am wondering if butches getting top surgery is no longer supported by the community so they are afraid to talk about it? Don't know.

I think it is great that you posted this. I am in a similar boat in that I am not on T and for a number of reasons it is not practical for me. I have been basically ignorant of this possibility. When I knew T was unlikely for me I shelved the whole idea because I had the impression it was a prerequisite. I don't know about the community support with butches. Maybe it could be as simple as being like me and just not knowing it is available as a stand alone procedure. One can hope.

This is really encouraging and I am starting into researching options now that I know there are some! I am fairly small chested so a reduction would not be of any particular help to me and would not give me the result I would want (male appearing chest) anyway. I have done some other things along the way that would fall into the category of transition steps and have been very happy with them. This would be a terrific step to add.

It would be a couple of years down the road due to unrelated family issues and I have to consider my age, 52, but I think this looks like a really great option. Since there will be some wait for me it will give me time to really get my research down. I like Garramones work a lot, his results look great. I am also looking into Brownsteins practice. It has recently changed hands and is now being run by Dr Crane. I will be able to see how he develops over some time but his credentials are solid. The fact that it would be local for me would mean quite a savings in travel as well as being able to recover at home.

Thanks to Oopster and the other guys for this thread. You don't know it, but I have been reading back through all of the trans threads and been getting really helpful information from all of you. Thanks.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I think it is great that you posted this. I am in a similar boat in that I am not on T and for a number of reasons it is not practical for me. I have been basically ignorant of this possibility. When I knew T was unlikely for me I shelved the whole idea because I had the impression it was a prerequisite. I don't know about the community support with butches. Maybe it could be as simple as being like me and just not knowing it is available as a stand alone procedure. One can hope.

This is really encouraging and I am starting into researching options now that I know there are some! I am fairly small chested so a reduction would not be of any particular help to me and would not give me the result I would want (male appearing chest) anyway. I have done some other things along the way that would fall into the category of transition steps and have been very happy with them. This would be a terrific step to add.

It would be a couple of years down the road due to unrelated family issues and I have to consider my age, 52, but I think this looks like a really great option. Since there will be some wait for me it will give me time to really get my research down. I like Garramones work a lot, his results look great. I am also looking into Brownsteins practice. It has recently changed hands and is now being run by Dr Crane. I will be able to see how he develops over some time but his credentials are solid. The fact that it would be local for me would mean quite a savings in travel as well as being able to recover at home.

Thanks to Oopster and the other guys for this thread. You don't know it, but I have been reading back through all of the trans threads and been getting really helpful information from all of you. Thanks.

Kelt! Good to see you on the thread, my friend!

Yes, I am interested to watch what happens with Crane, as well. He did train under Brownstein, who of course is the father of top surgery (well, I guess one could argue that with Reardon).

What I have noticed about Garramone's work is that it is consistent. Right on the money every time. I think that Brownstein's has been pretty consistent as well, although I have noticed that his chests sometimes have more of a scoop look to them under the pecs than I like. I think that is where the surgeons go wrong the most. I suppose that would be them not following the pectoral muscle well. Not that Garramone's incisions aren't different in amount of curve based on pec, but I have seen some surgeons (not Brownstein), consistently, or dramatically have too much of a scoop. Throws the whole thing off and it conjures up visions of female breasts, even though the chest is completely flat.

Last night, now having my own chest done, I took a bit of a step back and went through probably about 200+ photos of all different surgeons. I was surprised to see how good (and consistent), Fischer's double incision surgeries were. She is known for her keyhole/peri procedures and that is the bulk of her work, but her double incisions were quite good. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that I went to Garramone, but it was interesting to see that my second pick was in my backyard. I know that I mentioned going to her for consult, but that was earlier, when my focus (and query) to her was how small I could get if I chose a breast reduction instead. I was researching the idea of a hybrid/modified type surgery at the time. I had not seen many double incision pictures of hers.

I think that if I had to choose between a surgeon who had AMAZING results some of the time and "ok" results some of the time, versus a surgeon who had consistently good results, I would go with the consistent surgeon. You are betting with your chest, and there is only one shot.

I see Garramone, Brownstein, and Fischer as the most consistent (based on what I have seen. But, I admit I have paid more attention to their surgeries, than others, due to them jumping out at me as quality work from the "get go"). This is now the ONLY surgery Garramone does (Fischer does others, I am not sure what Brownstein did), so it makes sense he would have a good rhythm going. The sign on my bed post said, "Garramone #4". I was his 4th surgery of the day. He does 5 per day, 10 per week (sometimes he adds a third surgery day and does more). The whole thing was a great experience. Don't worry, I will save you from yet ANOTHER ramble as to how great the man is. I'm sure everyone on the thread will be THRILLED when I go back to work next week and stop being a posting fool!

Last thing, and advice to anyone who is looking. Get as many consults as you can. Especially if they are free. Garramone is free (he does phone consults, you email him pictures of your chest), while Fischer was not ($125). No downside to consulting with more than one.

In a nod to Oopster (and Theo), I haven't seen any of Dr. Voloshin's work and they are both pleased with their surgeries. Additionally, the other surgeons mentioned in this thread (DuPere, Raphael), I have seen good results with, as well. I think we all just have our preferences for how we like our chests to look and to be honest I find it more rare than common to read guys not being pleased with their surgeries.

[Nadeest]

Yes, I would no longer have to take T-blockers ( my anti-androgen). I would also be able to cut down on my intake of estrogen, considerably.

[DapperButch]

Hey, guys. I just wanted to add that at 7 days when I got the bandages off I had minimal swelling and no bruising. I really believe it is a function of the supplements I took. Now, at 11 days, there is only a small amount of swelling left under my arms. I can say that most every other surgery picture I have seen (and I have seen 100's), have significantly more swelling than I do at this point in my recovery. The typical line by surgeons is that swelling can take up to 3 months to go away.

I think that the VitaMedica Recovery Support Program/Arnica Montana is the explanation for it (I put both links in my prior post). I would suspect that the Curcumin/Tumeric also plays a big part in the minimal swelling (inflammation), I have. You can get Curcumin/Tumeric very cheap (like $12.00/bottle), so at minimum get this supplement. Take it in large quantities (it is safe), for one-two weeks prior to sugery, and until the swelling goes away after surgery.

I take Curcumin supplements on a regular basis anyway, as I believe that inflammation in our bodies (internally), is the root of many diseases.

You can get the Arnica cheap, too. So, I guess what I am suggesting is that if you cannot afford the Recovery Support Program (which includes the Vitamins and the Bromelain with Quercetin), find a cheap vitamin site and pick up some Curcumin/Tumeric and Arnica. You should be able to get them for $40 total.

I hope that more guys answer The Oopster's list of questions. I know that there are other transguys/butches on this site that have gotten top surgery and have a wealth of information to share.

[The Oopster]

Dapperbutch that is interesting on the arnica.

Did you have to have tubes?

The only other person that used arnica besides me that I know of didn't have to have tubes. Neither did I

I have always wondered so it's interesting to hear someone else used it and had minimal bruising and swelling also.

I only used arnica, nothing else.