Changing last names

[imperfect_cupcake]

Like I said Julie, I'm not talking about why individual people are exceptions. I'm talking about ... I'm starting to feel like a record now.

I am typing in english, right?


I'm off for internet kittens and neurology.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Like I said Julie, I'm not talking about why individual people are exceptions. I'm talking about ... I'm starting to feel like a record now.

I am typing in english, right?


I'm off for internet kittens and neurology.

Yes I get it!! My post was not in response to you or your points. I was reflecting on the differences in my two marriages and how that motivated me.

Kittens are good!

[Cin]

I think a lot of people have come on and explained what they believe was behind their desire to change their name or give their name or keep both names or whatever. I think that in and of itself is a big thing really. People are not going to understand where every other person is coming from. That’s just the way it is. That we listen to each other and think about what the other has said is really all we can hope for and really quite a lot I believe. Sometimes even when we are saying the same thing it is often not recognized as such or has enough of a little twist that we don’t see it. For example HB called it unpacking I called it holding my masculinity suspect. We both mean similar things. I just think the most important thing in discussions that are fraught with deep feelings and beliefs is that we all respect each other, listen without judgment and if at the end it is all we can do, we just agree to disagree. I believe if we keep an open mind, listen without judgment, little seeds get planted and have a chance to germinate. Overtime people can change their ways of looking at stuff. Or not. It's all good. And it's why I bother to talk and why I bother to listen.

[BullDog]

HB, I think you are trying to get at patterns and cultural conditioning. It may very well be that femmes consider name change more than butches. If so, why? Maybe butches are more reluctant to change their last names. If so, why? These types of questions may very well be worth examining. For me, it does seem to lead to me being placed in the "man-like" camp, which is something I bristle at and really can't relate to. But perhaps there is a fruitful way of talking about it.

People are posting to their own individual experiences because that is how they can relate to the question of name change and marriage. The decision does seem to be very much tied to very personal reasons to me. That is not to say that overall patterns don't exist that aren't worth examining.

For me, when I was younger I did not believe in same sex (or any type) marriage for myself. I wasn't open to the possibility of marriage until I was in my late 30s. I was never unhappy with my last name, and I still am not. I haven't ever thought about changing to a partner's, but if she really wanted me to I would definitely consider it. That is just my personal experience. I don't think it is typical butch or anything like that. It is just me and the life I have led. It is possible I am more part of a butch pattern than I realize, and it doesn't hurt to think about it and examine it further.

[Ginger]

I don't think anyone is disputing the observation that if someone is going to give their name, it is more likely to be a butch, and if someone is going to take a name, it is more likely to be a femme.

instead of continuing to speculate about what motivates people to be that way, I'll speak for myself:



I don't want to name another human being, unless it is my child.

And I would never presume to name an adult, even if I were in a relationship with that person.

To put it another way, I would never want to bestow my name on another adult, or "give her my name," as the expression goes.

I would not feel honored if she wanted to replace her name with mine; I would feel worried about what I would see as her need to assume part of my identity.

Also, I would have too much respect for my partner's right to name herself, to change her name to mine. I would have too much respect for her name, to support its erasure.

And if she really wanted that, I would be uncomfortable.

As I see it, my name reflects me. Her name reflects her. I don't want HER name to reflect ME, or MY name to reflect HER. Some would say, But then it would reflect US. I say, no that doesn't ring true for me. That equation doesn't equal "us" to me.

I would not feel less loved, because she doesn't want to be named after me.

Likewise, I don't want to name myself after another person.

I want to carry the name that reflects my history, my family, my hard work that has been attached to that name.

If a partner wanted to name me after herself, or rather, wanted me to name myself after her, I would feel reinvented in a way I don't want.

I would feel like she wanted me to be an addition to her history, not a continuation of my own. I would feel that she didn't love and respect my name.

That's why I wouldn't be in a couple in which one person's last name represented us both.

[Dude]

I have come in here twice now and haven't answered the question.
For me, there is so much layered into it that I keep getting
sidetracked.
I would be cool with doing the hyphonated thing. For
me, it feels like the healthiest choice.
It means ( to me ) I could still be an individual and many other
things factor into that.

My whole life , I have wanted to propose but have not
I would have to be very sure that it was a healthy fit to
go down that road.

As role-ish as I am sometimes in relationships. The
healthier ones were with take charge types of women.
I'm sort of shy and think way too much.
So, as I was driving around this morning ( thinking)
I thought how cool it would be for a femme to propose.
I would likely brag about that everyday.
Old dogs really can learn new tricks! ;]
Old school can blend into new school ways.
I've learned to never give away my favorite shirt
But instead to give away my second favorite shirt.

I do notice , often online butches being intimidated by intelligent femmes
which strikes me as odd.
They seem to want that upper hand thing or want to feel superior.
I like smart women and hope to fall in love with
someone wayyy smarter than me , one day

[Julie]

I have finally read everything. Lots of differing opinions and quite honestly, a whole lotta judgment going on here.

Who cares why someone takes another person's name? Really? If a butch asks a femme to take their name and the femme is happy, who cares? If a femme wants to take her butches name, who cares? If a butch takes her name? WHO CARES?

I am getting married to Dreamer next May. Dreamer never asked me to take his name. I never asked Dreamer to take my name. We did have the conversation and I simply said, I am not changing my name. I hope you understand. Dreamer said, of course I do. Dreamer said, he would like to take my name and I was fine with that, but after discussing logistics... Immigration, Passports, Pensions, etc. We both decided too much work and so not worth it.

My name is my father's name, and it was his mother's name (maiden) and was his father's name. The line of my name goes thousands of years. It is rich in history for me. To give up my very Jewish name, was not an option for me. Not even a thought. Though, I did worry it might hurt Dreamer's feelings and was quite relieved it did not.

I do not care about the personal choices people make when it comes to such matters as trivial as this, in the scheme of things. And I certainly am not going to shame another for taking her butches name. If this makes her happy and them happy. Then I say - MAZEL TOV! We should be congratulating the couple on their marriage and not shaming them.

Signed,

Julie without a dowry. Though, I am sure this really upsets my beloved dominant butch. Sorry baby.

[Dude]

I fn forgot about the ring part!
I got sidetracked with the "on bended knee" buisness ;]
I don't do rings , so don't bother until I can go with and
get a comfy one.
I will then buy you the biggest rock my credit can mustah .

Here's to new and improved fantasies ~~clink~~~

[Ginger]

I don't think the subject of this thread is trivial.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

I don't think the subject of this thread is trivial.

Who is trivializing it?
If (and I am assuming) by my WHO CARES comment. I can assure you, I do not think any part of a relationship or commitment is trivial, including taking or changing your name. I think it is sad, when we start shaming people for their choices.