Butch Attire & Fashion

[Kelt]

Dapper is spot on about fit being 80% of the impression. It is really going to depend on how your partner is built as to whether or not the mens or women's department will get the best starting point. Either way, I cannot recommend getting a tailor highly enough. It is the finishing that makes it.

If you end up buying shirts in the mens dept many times you may find the sleeves need to be shortened 1-2cm or they will bunch at the cuff and look sloppy, women's arms are proportionally a bit shorter most of the time and the shoulder is the most important fit check. If your GF is more stout it might be better to start with a women's cut for the shoulder/hip ratio but look out for darts, nuff said about that. A tailor can taper the sides to fit whatever shape needed (within reason). If your GF is smaller in stature it's another problem, I run into this and sometimes end up in boys sizes where it is harder to find quality.

Similarily, with trousers it is the "drop" that matters for your starting point. The waist to hip ratio. Typically if you are starting with a mens cut you will want the difference to be 8" inches or less, if it is more, start with a women's cut otherwise they will never hang right. It is good to look for a "split back" waistband if you can (mostly in mens or expensive women's) for ease of tailoring.

I used to have to navigate the professional dress quandary also and went with basically a suit minus the tie or would sometimes sub in a mock-t sweater of higher quality. I was in an all male environment though, so I'm not sure that would fly. If the position is going to be working with mostly men or women will likely matter. Playing to the expected audience would be safer up front and then after settling into the position more freedom might available. Right now getting the job is probably top priority. There are in-between spaces for sweaters, shorter cut jackets (Ellen), skipping jackets (like Dapper) and sometimes just going with a brighter color shirt seems to work. Personality and skills should trump all but it's the real world. It's important that your partner feels comfortable and professional.

Come back in and let us know what you come up with or if you have more questions.

[Kelt]

While on the subject of appearance, I decided to play with hair. Since I've only had 2 now 3 hairstyles in the last 30 years this is significant for me.

I knocked the corners off my flattop and am growing out the top a tad.

Going for kind of a George Clooney in "The American" look. I have a little more pepper to salt ratio but since we have a similar face shape I thought I'd try it. I'll never look good like him but we both have that longish, trending toward jowliness-with-age shape.

It's weird to look in the mirror and see a round top of head. So what did I do today but go out and buy a flat-topped hat (pork pie).

Originally Posted by Kelt

While on the subject of appearance, I decided to play with hair. Since I've only had 2 now 3 hairstyles in the last 30 years this is significant for me.

I knocked the corners off my flattop and am growing out the top a tad.

Going for kind of a George Clooney in "The American" look. I have a little more pepper to salt ratio but since we have a similar face shape I thought I'd try it. I'll never look good like him but we both have that longish, trending toward jowliness-with-age shape.

It's weird to look in the mirror and see a round top of head. So what did I do today but go out and buy a flat-topped hat (pork pie).

How bizarre! For the first time in more years than I care to remember there's hair happening here too.
Like you Kelt, I've only had a couple of hair-styles as an adult with a full, to-the-bone all over shave being the one I've had for the longest time.
At the start of the year I decided to grow a 'quiff'. The aim is a full 50s combed back, Brylcremed, Tony Curtis 'do...if I can be patient enough before shaving it all off in the summer.









From one budding Hair Bear to another...good luck dood!

[DapperButch]

Daktari! Love it!

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by Daktari

How bizarre! For the first time in more years than I care to remember there's hair happening here too.
Like you Kelt, I've only had a couple of hair-styles as an adult with a full, to-the-bone all over shave being the one I've had for the longest time.
At the start of the year I decided to grow a 'quiff'. The aim is a full 50s combed back, Brylcremed, Tony Curtis 'do...if I can be patient enough before shaving it all off in the summer.

From one budding Hair Bear to another...good luck dood!

Hey Daktari my sartorial chum!

I always like taking hints from your looks. Yeah I don't know what came over me. I missed one of my regular haircuts and it got me thinking. I crossed the fifty mark a bit ago and thought that maybe it was time to have a grown-up haircut. Then I watched a movie and thought "I could do that".

Thing is I am totally clueless how to work with it. I don't even know how it grows or what the color looks like laying down. I always just washed it and hit it with a little water based pomade to make it look like hair and not fuzz, that was it.

Now I have the time and inclination to play with it a bit and I can always just take it off if I don't like it. I'm never really more than two or three weeks away from a bad or good look. Also, starting to play with hats for more than just keeping my head warm although once again the curse of being one size too small hits here too. I have found a couple of online resources so once I have a style or two I know I like I can order size appropriate.

The haircut I've had for the last decade was a lot like this:



Doesn't work quite as well over 50. I don't want to be one of those folks who try to look 25 forever.

I have no desire to get on the hair coloring cycle I just won't put time into it. I have a hard time with more than 5 minutes max on prep. I am learning to play with other "products" I am sticking with the line that I like but trying different like types like creams/wax/etc.

The direction I'm going is more toward this: not much different but to me it is change.







I'll just have to see what happens over time and figure out where I run out of patience. I dunno, it looks pretty long to me.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Similarily, with trousers it is the "drop" that matters for your starting point. The waist to hip ratio. Typically if you are starting with a mens cut you will want the difference to be 8" inches or less, if it is more, start with a women's cut otherwise they will never hang right. It is good to look for a "split back" waistband if you can (mostly in mens or expensive women's) for ease of tailoring.

Ummmm, yeah, no one knows what this means. Bring it down to the common man, Mr. Snot!

Yes, what's hard is where one starts with their body's. I went right to talking about men's clothing because uniquetobeme stated this is what her partner wore, but you do have to go with what fits correctly and then tailor it from there.

I've said it before and I will say it again...I'm so glad I can buy "off the rack"!

Kelt, it would be awesome if at some point you would share (post photos) what's going on with your hair (or when it is complete). That is a BIG step, man!

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ummmm, yeah, no one knows what this means. Bring it down to the common man, Mr. Snot!

Yes, what's hard is where one starts with their body's. I went right to talking about men's clothing because uniquetobeme stated this is what her partner wore, but you do have to go with what fits correctly and then tailor it from there.

I've said it before and I will say it again...I'm so glad I can buy "off the rack"!

Kelt, it would be awesome if at some point you would share (post photos) what's going on with your hair (or when it is complete). That is a BIG step, man!

Oy vey, okay breakdown. If someone has a waist of 32 (or 42, 52..) and a hip of 40 (50, 60..) the difference is 8 inches, this is the "drop". In a mens cut, that is the max there is to work with. Some female bodied people have more of a difference, say a 32 waist and a 42 hip a 10 inch difference and then they should start with a womens cut so there is enough fabric to work with. You can always take in, but you can't add what isn' there.

Also with a larger difference you can get gapping at the back of the waist and if the waistband is already split (has a seam at the back) then it can be easily altered.

Using the jargon makes it easier for me to talk to the tailor.

I have been on both ends of the spectrum and had to learn on the fly with a big weight swing up and then down.

For Dapper: Buy this book



Thank me later.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Oy vey, okay breakdown. If someone has a waist of 32 (or 42, 52..) and a hip of 40 (50, 60..) the difference is 8 inches, this is the "drop". In a mens cut, that is the max there is to work with. Some female bodied people have more of a difference, say a 32 waist and a 42 hip a 10 inch difference and then they should start with a womens cut so there is enough fabric to work with. You can always take in, but you can't add what isn' there.

--------------------------------

You douche, I was talking about for others, not me!!

<----- see name over there.



For Dapper: Buy this book



Thank me later.

Yet another insult!!

I personally have found this one helpful.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/category/dress-grooming/

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ummmm, yeah, no one knows what this means. Bring it down to the common man, Mr. Snot!

I know you know, don't get yer Calvins in a twist.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

You douche, I was talking about for others, not me!!

<----- see name over there.

Yet another insult!!

I personally have found this one helpful.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/category/dress-grooming/

Because of course calling me A) Mr Snot and B)You douche are not shots over the bow inviting recourse!

BTW, I love the hell outta that site and especially these helpful playing cards for casual stuff. That is where I tend to get lost. Formal attire has rules and a rule book so folks like me can figure it out. Casual is for people who have more creativity than a rock (as in, not me). So they help a lot.

For Other People (not Dapper who knows everything already ) the book I referenced is especially handy for vintage shopping. I provides interesting history and also subltle signs to look for that point toward quality, like which way the button hole on a gusset should be. I find that the sizes run smaller also which is a godsend for the stature challenged.

[Duchess]

[Duchess]

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I know you know, don't get yer Calvins in a twist.



Because of course calling me A) Mr Snot and B)You douche are not shots over the bow inviting recourse!

BTW, I love the hell outta that site and especially these helpful playing cards for casual stuff. That is where I tend to get lost. Formal attire has rules and a rule book so folks like me can figure it out. Casual is for people who have more creativity than a rock (as in, not me). So they help a lot.

For Other People (not Dapper who knows everything already ) the book I referenced is especially handy for vintage shopping. I provides interesting history and also subltle signs to look for that point toward quality, like which way the button hole on a gusset should be. I find that the sizes run smaller also which is a godsend for the stature challenged.

As I was reading this, I heard my mother's voice in my head from years ago, I think about age 7, telling me that "mens shirts have hole left- button right and men's hair parts left combs right."

I will still to this day make sure which side the button is on when looking at what can be viewed as andro or metro-sexual clothing. Not that it truly matters, as I only wear what is ultimately comfortable for me, but because it was once a standard way of distinguishing male and female clothing.

The fabric or cut could be the exact same, but because of the placement of a button, it was deemed male or female.

The rules of fashion aren't so clear cut these days. Not so "his" or "hers" and I think it is pretty cool.

I wear men's clothes but I shop based on texture of a fabric or tones and then by cut. I will indeed refer to sites listed previously in this thread for tips on tailoring or event specific attire, but mostly I go by instinct.

I have met very few butches (or femmes) who are comfortable in their self id that dress poorly. Just about everyone I have met from this site (or it's predecessor) lack for want of style or appropriateness in dressing for whatever given occasion I have met them. I am always impressed with the community from here I meet.

I apologize for the segue in conversation, just something about the highlighted statement struck a chord that resounded with me and I felt an urge to share. I appreciate this thread and while I don't post often, I do read it when new additions are made.

Thanks Y'all!

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

[COLOR="Blue"]You douche, I was talking about for others, not me!!

<----- see name over there.

Is "douche" an insult because it has something to do with woman's vagina?
Just asking for clarification.

[Kelt]

I want to re-post something that was posted on this site a little while back (I can’t remember where) because I think it is more representative of the variety of choices and how great many butches are with creativity. I personally tend to focus on mens attire but that is just me, shopping both sides of the gender isle, and kids too, yields so many more options and I like to see how people combine them.

This photographers gallery showcases all kinds of butches ranging across differing presentations, ages, and cultural backgrounds and I really enjoy it.

“BUTCH is a environmental portraiture project and exploration of the butch aesthetic, identity and presentation of female masculinity as it stands in 2013-14. It is a celebration of those who dwell outside of the stringent social binary that separates the sexes and a glimpse into the private and often unseen spaces of people who exude their authentic sense of self.” - Meg Allen

[Liam]

Apparently there is a second edition of Gentleman: A Timeless Guide to Fashion.

http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ype=blogs&_r=0

[okieblu]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I want to re-post something that was posted on this site a little while back (I can’t remember where) because I think it is more representative of the variety of choices and how great many butches are with creativity. I personally tend to focus on mens attire but that is just me, shopping both sides of the gender isle, and kids too, yields so many more options and I like to see how people combine them.

This photographers gallery showcases all kinds of butches ranging across differing presentations, ages, and cultural backgrounds and I really enjoy it.

“BUTCH is a environmental portraiture project and exploration of the butch aesthetic, identity and presentation of female masculinity as it stands in 2013-14. It is a celebration of those who dwell outside of the stringent social binary that separates the sexes and a glimpse into the private and often unseen spaces of people who exude their authentic sense of self.” - Meg Allen

Yeah, this is a great photo series. I dont know if they are still working on it or not.

[uniquetobeme]

You all rock! Thanks for the advice!! The interview went pretty well, keeping fingers crossed!!!