Obama's Health Care Overhaul: Your Opinions

[casey35]

I may not have the right for this opinion but this is mine. I personally dont think that we the tax payers should have to pay for others insurance. If you dont have insurance which i dont then it should be your responsablity to get some.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by casey35

I may not have the right for this opinion but this is mine. I personally dont think that we the tax payers should have to pay for others insurance. If you dont have insurance which i dont then it should be your responsablity to get some.

So what happens when you get hurt in an accident (fell off a ladder say because your foot slipped), have no job and have been out of work for 9+ months and insurance costs $600 a month (as it does in parts of NYC)? Why is it wrong to be compassionate and caring for one another, even if we are strangers to each other?

[Luv]

Ive been turned down for insurance because of pre-exhistiing problems I have had..if I am able to get insurance it will cost me 1/2 of my monthly paycheck.

My generation has been called " Generation Jones " ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones ) . As I look at life now days,,Id say yea..we are. Here we are approaching middle age or are middle aged and have no health insurance. I hope they get this thing figured out.

[casey35]

I do understand the need of insurance and for those who are declined from insurance. But the government needs to back out of our personal life. I do not believe that the government should tell me what i can do and what i cant. For me to hear from our leaders it unamerican to not vote for the health care pisses me off. I have served my country and I for one believe it still america and we have choices what we want and what we dont.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by casey35

I do understand the need of insurance and for those who are declined from insurance. But the government needs to back out of our personal life. I do not believe that the government should tell me what i can do and what i cant. For me to hear from our leaders it unamerican to not vote for the health care pisses me off. I have served my country and I for one believe it still america and we have choices what we want and what we dont.

I totally get your point here, Casey, about not wanting government intrusion into our personal lives....for most things. Thing is, when we have uninsured Americans, we all pay the costs. When I say we ALL pay, we do, especially those of us who are (lucky enough) to have a job and bring home a paycheck these days. Let me explain.

People who don't have health coverage can't usually get in to see private doctors, where a simple office visit usually costs about $125, if you pay out of pocket and you don't have any xrays, tests or procedures done, because those are extra. These people can't the afford the $125 and they usually don't even bother trying to get in to a private doctor because they are denied even an appointment when they call, being told that "Dr. Soandsuch doesn't accept uninsured patients".

When you are sick and/or injured, you must get medical attention, and that's non-negotiable, because you must live. If you can't go to a private doctor, the only alternative is the Emergency Room, because they can't turn you down. At a minimum, they have to stabilize and treat you and, if they are a community-funded facility, then they MUST, by law, take a certain percentage of medically indigent patients. People know this, so this is the route most of them take. Oh, and by the time these folks come in to the ER, they usually have much MUCH more complicated scenarios going on than if they'd just sought treatment for when the problem first started. People who are uninsured though typically put off seeking medical attention until the last cryin' second, because they know they can't afford it and they're scared to death of not just the medical problem, but the expense associated with care.

Care at an Emergency Department is the most expensive care you can get, anywhere, but when you don't have any choice, that's where you go, whether you can "afford" it or not. In the past, there were programs that provided monetary offset or sliding scale reduced costs to people who couldn't afford to pay, or even programs that picked up the entire costs of services to medically indigents. In today's economy, however, those have gradually dwindled down to next to nothing, or nil. Someone has to pay those costs, or the (community funded, especially) hospitals would go under. This is happening more and more, and I beg you to show me one community funded facility now that isn't operating in the red. They can only do this for so long before they disappear and there is no facility whatsoever, for the folks who have no money and no insurance. The entire community loses. Now, in my lifetime, it's been pretty well accepted that some of these community funded facilities have been of the research oriented type and they have had some of the best equipment and facilities of any hospital in any community. In other words, if you were really, really sick, or banged up in an accident, that's where you wanted to go for the most aggressive treatment or care. These places depend on tax dollars for the greater source of their operating budgets. As their expense goes up, so does the demand for our tax dollars to fund them.

Now, that said, I ask you. Wouldn't you rather spend a few less tax dollars to help buy some of these uninsured Americans some level of basic health care?? If they had health insurance, they wouldn't always be clogging up ERs and charging the most expensive level of care to the taxpayers. They would be going to primary care doctors who charge FAR less for office visits than a trip to the ER would ever cost. These folks would have access to routine preventive care so that more complicated medical issues can be, hopefully, averted. I say, let the big insurance industry bear the burden of the costs of most of the care, in the form of negotiated costs, and take the huge burden of the costs of ER visits for non-emergent care off of the shoulders of the taxpayers.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing so many people who DO have health coverage, or are in a position to pay for their care, grumble about why they should have to bear the costs of paying for people who don't have coverage or are not lucky enough to be in the same position of being able to afford and pay for their care. It's the exact same thing as saying "I've got mine, so fuck you.". That doesn't work in a (civilized) society.

We really ARE all interconnected, in society, whether or not we want to admit it or not. Someone's got to pay these huge costs and it's, ultimately, going to fall on the guy whom it's always fallen on.....the taxpayer. The only question that's left to answer is how it's going to be paid. I, as a single filer (I am not legally married), pay approximately 28% of my salary in federal taxes. Of the amount I have left, after that's taken out, I pay about $160 per month for the premium of my health care coverage/insurance. I would rather pay, say, 29 or 30% in federal taxes.....or it may even be a bit less, if we had a single payer system, similar to the VA (#1 Ranking, consistently, in Patient Satisfaction, nationally), to cover EVERY American. Just by sheer volume alone, the cost of medical services and pharmaceuticals would be beaten down....way, waaaaaay down.

~Theo~

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by casey35

I do understand the need of insurance and for those who are declined from insurance. But the government needs to back out of our personal life. I do not believe that the government should tell me what i can do and what i cant. For me to hear from our leaders it unamerican to not vote for the health care pisses me off. I have served my country and I for one believe it still america and we have choices what we want and what we dont.

Personally I would rather the Government than the Insurance Companies. You don't get any choices with them

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by casey35

If you dont have insurance which i dont then it should be your responsablity to get some.

Originally Posted by casey35

I do not believe that the government should tell me what i can do and what i cant.

Okay, let me get this straight. You don't have insurance. You think it's everyone's responsibility to get insurance. You don't think the the government should tell you that you have to get insurance.

While I ponder the hypocrisy, I'll point out a few things. When the Republicans jumped on the "everyone must have insurance" bandwagon years ago, it was all about "personal responsibility" and that those who are responsible and have insurance shouldn't have to pay for the irresponsible folks who don't have insurance. Now that the Democrats are asking for the same thing, it's "the government forcing". Bottom line, if everyone was responsible (republican word) and got insurance, then the government wouldn't have to force you (democrat word) to get it.

Oh, and government tells citizens, institutions, corporations, etc. every damn day in a thousand different ways what we can and can't do. They're called laws, and without them we'd have anarchy rather than society.

[betenoire]

I'm interested to see how this all plays out. I do hope that eventually your government moves toward a more Canadian model of healthcare.

Because then you won't have less power and control over your lives than what you have now - you will have more.

Imagine how nice it would be to go to ANY doctor you wanted to go to, rather than only being able to choose from one of the half-dozen doctors mandated by your shitty insurance policy?

Those of you who think that you'll be taxed out the ass for this health care don't know what you are talking about. You just don't. I am married to an american who still lives in the US. I know what I pay in taxes a month. I also know what he pays for his insurance. Between his insurance and "copays" he pays out MORE than I do a month in taxes. Add to that his taxes and he pays out way WAY more a month than I do. Just to survive and have something that resembles a good quality of living. What kind of bullshit is that?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I'm interested to see how this all plays out. I do hope that eventually your government moves toward a more Canadian model of healthcare.

Because then you won't have less power and control over your lives than what you have now - you will have more.

Imagine how nice it would be to go to ANY doctor you wanted to go to, rather than only being able to choose from one of the half-dozen doctors mandated by your shitty insurance policy?

Those of you who think that you'll be taxed out the ass for this health care don't know what you are talking about. You just don't. I am married to an american who still lives in the US. I know what I pay in taxes a month. I also know what he pays for his insurance. Between his insurance and "copays" he pays out MORE than I do a month in taxes. Add to that his taxes and he pays out way WAY more a month than I do. Just to survive and have something that resembles a good quality of living. What kind of bullshit is that?

As a Canadian living here, I've discovered that as well. The quality of doctor I see (I go to the Callen-Lorde Center in Manhattan) is equal to what I got in Toronto. It boggles my mind why I pay for insurance and then, on top of that, I have to do a co-pay. K and I have discussed it and we'll likely move to the likes of either BC or Halifax when we have kids. I've determined there is no way we could afford all the coughs, scrapped knees, broken bones and the like if we remained in the US.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Okay, let me get this straight. You don't have insurance. You think it's everyone's responsibility to get insurance. You don't think the the government should tell you that you have to get insurance.

While I ponder the hypocrisy, I'll point out a few things. When the Republicans jumped on the "everyone must have insurance" bandwagon years ago, it was all about "personal responsibility" and that those who are responsible and have insurance shouldn't have to pay for the irresponsible folks who don't have insurance. Now that the Democrats are asking for the same thing, it's "the government forcing". Bottom line, if everyone was responsible (republican word) and got insurance, then the government wouldn't have to force you (democrat word) to get it.

Oh, and government tells citizens, institutions, corporations, etc. every damn day in a thousand different ways what we can and can't do. They're called laws, and without them we'd have anarchy rather than society.

I pay for my own medical bills out of my pocket. The fact that i have a full time job dont mean i have insurance. I have always paid my medical bills out of pocket. I guess i am damn lucky i am not sickly.

[Diavolo]

Personally I don't think Obama's health plan went far enough. I think left to his own devices, it would have. I think he is a very smart man with a very keen understanding of what we face here in America. But he had to negotiate and it's not what it could have been. I also learned something from the husband of a friend of mine. He work in the Senate. The news was making a big deal out of how many pages the bill was. According to Matt, it's mostly triple spaced and it doesn't take that long for anyone to read the bill.

I lived in German in the late 70's. I hurt my foot to the point that I couldn't walk on it. I had to go to a German Doctor. The school referred me to a guy. I went, I saw him three times, he fixed my foot and there was never a bill for his services. About 5 years ago a friend of mine was at a wedding in Italy. She slipped off of a curb and shattered her ankle. The Italian Doctor patched her up, casted her foot, gave her crutches and sent her no bill.

I don't want the Government to be everything to everyone, but it needs to be something to the people. Personally, I want the same health plan that is provided to Congress. Period.

Currently I have Kaiser. My deductable is $2700 and I have a 30% co-pay. I pay $300 a month for that privilege. I currently hold 27 powerlifting records and I rode my bike on three 100 mile rides last year and did all the training necessary to accomplish that. I cannot get Blue Cross. I told them to send their CEO into the parking lot and I would kick his ass just to prove my healthiness. But because I'm 200 pounds of 51yo muscle with a ticker that's gone haywire twice in the last 15 years, they won't insure me. I don't have any high risk behavior. I'm just solid like a rock. It's bullshit. I want that same plan that Chuck Grassley has. I'm in much better shape than that asshat.

[key]

Originally Posted by casey35

I pay for my own medical bills out of my pocket. The fact that i have a full time job dont mean i have insurance. I have always paid my medical bills out of pocket. I guess i am damn lucky i am not sickly.

Yeah, Casey, you are lucky you are not sickly, What do you suppose should happen to those who are not so lucky? Should we just let people die on the streets if they can't afford to pay out of pocket or get insurance?

This is a serious question, Casey, what do you suppose we do with the 23 year old "healthy person" who has a serious auto accident. Let's say it was no one's fault - just hit some black ice, wiped out and broke their neck. Should we just kick them out of the ER as soon as we learn they do not have the money to cover the costs?

Let's change that scenario to a middle aged woman between jobs who discovers a lump in her breast? How much do you think Cancer treatment costs? Should we toss her out if she can't afford it?

I am asking sincerely Casey, in your world, what is your plan for these people?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by casey35

I may not have the right for this opinion but this is mine. I personally dont think that we the tax payers should have to pay for others insurance. If you dont have insurance which i dont then it should be your responsablity to get some.

wowzers.

what about parks, schools, libraries, DO YOU USE ANY OF THOSE?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by casey35

I may not have the right for this opinion but this is mine. I personally dont think that we the tax payers should have to pay for others insurance. If you dont have insurance which i dont then it should be your responsablity to get some.

I'm curious can you explain what the difference between these are:

Scenario 1: There's a program that people can buy into. This pools the risk. Those who are healthy are, essentially, paying for those who are less healthy. By the time that you, yourself, become less healthy there are other people who have flowed into the system to pay for those who are less healthy which now includes you.

Scenario 2: There's program everyone contributes to. The population that is more healthy pays more into the system then they use in services. The population that is less healthy gets more in services then they are *currently* paying in.

Now, have I described an insurance policy, Medicare or single-payer national healthcare?

The thing is, that description could more or less apply to *any* of them!

So my question is this:

Why is it that if in one scenario, a large, corporation is making profits beyond the dreams of avarice it is a Good Thing (r) and the way the world should work but if in another scenario it is the government that is paying the health care providers that is 'tax payers paying for other's health care'. Both are pools of risk, the two seem pretty much the same as far as I can tell. The *difference* is this: Aetna has one goal and that is to make a profit. If, in the course of doing so, someone happens to get needed medical attention no one at Aetna will shed a tear. But if there is SOME way to deny your claim, they will.

Now, as far as paying for others. In my department, there are a bunch of middle-aged folks, with middle-aged people's problems, and a number of twenty-somethings. The fact of the matter is, the twenty-somethings are *paying* for us middle-aged people. The kids, as we call them, hardly use their healthcare at all while us old farts use it rather often. Should the kids be able to pull out of the insurance because it'll be a decade before they start using the health insurance in a manner closer to what us older folks do?