The RuPaul Drag T*Word Controversy

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Language is a tricky thing. Like, I love to identify myself as a fatass. A Dyke. A Faggot. A Honky. A Cunt.

I don't get wanting to reclaim honky. The others, yes. They are used by dominant groups to oppress others. But honky was typically used by African Americans to describe the group oppressing them. One of the things it connotes is an ignorant bigot who'd like to have his foot on your neck. How is that reclaimable? Being fat can be positive. Being gay is positive. Being a sex positive, body-positive female, yes, all good.

Being an ignorant bigoted oppressor? How is that ever positive?

I get reclaiming "white trash" because that was used against poor people by a more dominant group -- more privileged classes. I like that phrase. But honky? I don't get it. It's like telling Black people, "You don't get to be mad at me anymore."

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

I don't get wanting to reclaim honky. The others, yes. They are used by dominant groups to oppress others. But honky was typically used by African Americans to describe the group oppressing them. One of the things it connotes is an ignorant bigot who'd like to have his foot on your neck. How is that reclaimable? Being fat can be positive. Being gay is positive. Being a sex positive, body-positive female, yes, all good.

Being an ignorant bigoted oppressor? How is that ever positive?

I get reclaiming "white trash" because that was used against poor people by a more dominant group -- more privileged classes. I like that phrase. But honky? I don't get it. It's like telling Black people, "You don't get to be mad at me anymore."

Martina-


I generally don't like to engage with you because of what you just did above.

I made a statement with what I felt was a pretty large concept and all of the sudden I'm throwing White Oppression back onto Black people.

I mean, for real?????


For anyone else who may want clarification, I am not speaking of reclaiming the word "honky" in relation to Black folks using it to describe their white oppressors. I use that word in reference to the grand "All Things White and White Privileged that Are Ridiculous".

And yes, in some (and most in my case) instances, interchangeably with "white trash".

I'd seriously like this thread to NOT focus on me and my racial oppression if at all possible.

Thanks,
Angie

[imperfect_cupcake]

I guess it depends on how you see it. I had a Hawaiian mate who used to call me cracker, playfully, and It never bothered me. It made me laugh. Why? Because I come from a dominant culture of whiteness that doesn't feel the effects of being one. To me it's just a word with no systemic bite. Therefore, her playfully using it had no oppressive backup. I *could* laugh. To me, all it means is white. I know the background of it, but it doesn't have that "feeling" behind it that other words felt for her.

I also met a straight girl named "g" who was a friend of my best friend. We were sitting around the table and I mentioned an ex by "she". G turned to me and said "oh! Are you a carpet licker?"
I burst out laughing "yes" I said "I lick carpets. Indeed I do. I do."
She grinned and said "I adore you kind of gals" and winked at me and I laughed.

I did not get angry at her use because I could tell by her tone she was being playful and rough-edged. Plus words don't really hurt me all that much anymore, tbh. The more self accepting and self loving I am, the less they seem to bug me.

I was upset at being called "titsy fatarse" by a group of boys before they shoved me off my bike a couple years back, into a bush. But when I told my best friend the story she almost peed herself laughing. At that point I stopped and thought about it and thought, yeah ok I see your point, and grinned. And you know what? It feels a lot easier, a lot lighter and a lot better to laugh when she calls me titsy fatarse now on occasion. That's not to say I wouldn't punch those boys in the face, given the chance, but I don't carry what Said or did around like a sack of wet wool.

The only thing that kind of bothers me is that I'm opineing away on what I think of the word tranny. I know what I think and what my trans friends think. I know which ones are ok with it and which ones aren't. And really, taking people's preferences into account is what friends do. I don't call strangers by that word because I don't know what they think or how they feel. They may not feel I have the right to say it, they may think no one does, they may love it as a term of endearment like I do with playful jousts with who I am.

But I'm not in the public eye saying it - you can't accomidate everyone in that instance. I personally am not trans in any way shape or form. So frankly, what I think is irrelevant. But here I am. Blabbing away... Because for some reason my opinion on the matter just comes pouring out of my mouth.

I do what my friends want. That's about as far as I can go with it.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I guess it depends on how you see it. I had a Hawaiian mate who used to call me cracker, playfully, and It never bothered me. It made me laugh. Why? Because I come from a dominant culture of whiteness that doesn't feel the effects of being one. To me it's just a word with no systemic bite. Therefore, her playfully using it had no oppressive backup. I *could* laugh. To me, all it means is white. I know the background of it, but it doesn't have that "feeling" behind it that other words felt for her.

I am not talking about Medusa, but the use of words, epithets that can be used against groups of people. I think that while it might be a tangent, it is not entirely off track in this thread.

I do think this instance -- cracker -- is different than the honky example. Cracker was coined by more privileged white folks to describe poorer people. In the instance you cite, a POC used it to describe you, but the history and most common usage of the word was that of one class disparaging a less privileged group. Over time, it has been reclaimed and is used by some people with pride. It doesn't have much bite at all.

And I honestly wasn't talking about how white people feel being called honky. I was talking about the message it sends about race to even attempt to reclaim it. It is not comparable to cracker or white trash because it was used by the subaltern class to describe the dominant other. For the dominant group to make any attempt to reclaim it is to send some questionable messages, including the racist past of my people doesn't matter anymore.

To me, it is worth thinking about these cases because, as people have said, these debates about the language of naming can get complicated and overdetermined. And we are ultimately talking about the real lived relations of power among people now.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I was under the impression cracker came from "cracker back" as in whipping someone.

Honky wouldn't bother me either, it means nothing. There is nothing to reclaim. I'm in a dominant group. Same thing, to me, as cracker. You may feel differently about those words, neither of them hold any bite for me at all. I'm white and privileged and there is no systemic oppression to go with that word. So... *shrug* I don't care if someone calls me that. I personally wouldn't use either term because I'm not American so I did not grow up with those terms at all.

Bitch, slut, pervert, lezzo, titsy, etc... Sure.

It's not up to me if it's not a word that describes a group I'm not in.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I was under the impression cracker came from "cracker back" as in whipping someone.

I thought it had to do with bragging, kind of like the bragging contests people in America used to have. It's kind of a rural American way of talking and telling stories from the past. Now, it just means a rural white person from Florida or Georgia. Or a style of architecture.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Honky wouldn't bother me either, it means nothing. There is nothing to reclaim. I'm in a dominant group.

I agree.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Same thing, to me, as cracker.

For you and me, yes. For the poor white folks of the region, maybe there was. In any case, the work is done.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

It's not up to me if it's not a word that describes a group I'm not in.

I don't know. I feel like I have a stake in some of it. I came up as a lesbian around gay men, a few of whom did drag. I feel connected to that culture, especially as it was back then. I feel connected to the guys who worshiped opera divas even though it wasn't something I did. I am not claiming membership in a group I don't belong to. But I do feel affected when the larger culture negotiates how to describe it. It matters (some) to me.

I guess I have an affection for drag and drag queens because I felt comfortable and safe among them. From the very beginning -- my coming out -- lesbian culture was in the throes of some extreme infighting that affected me. It was my home in a way that gay male culture couldn't be, but safe? No. Being around gay men has usually been that. Not always. There's a lot of sexism there. But it's been a place to be queer and accepted. I also just appreciate the forms it has taken. I loved the opera diva folk for caring so damned much, for being able to talk for HOURS about opera and culture. I liked that world. It's pretty much gone. AIDS. But it meant a lot to me. And what has replaced it -- well it was always there -- but what is left is so materialistic. I have some awesome gay male friends and acquaintances. But the culture and what it contributes -- it's a lot about money and the things it will buy. As is the culture at large.

So I feel kind of attached to drag culture, at least as it was.

Re the trans people who are offended, as an ally, I guess I do have a right to speak up. And, in fact, I come down on their side of the argument in spite of my regard for RuPaul and my affection for drag culture.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Ok, I just read up on the work and it has several meanings. One that you describe and one that I did. There is more than one use for it, my friend meant it in the way I described.

I don't believe I have any right to tell a trans person to be, or not to be, offended by then term tranny. I know some who use it (and other terms I won't state here because I know the offense people will take to it and frankly I don't want to be in a shit storm over words others are comfortable over) and I know some who find it offensive. I cannot tell someone who used the ID to stop it. No more than a man should tell me to stop using the term lezzo to describe myself. I can't insist on someone to accept it. I can only respect someone's wishes to use or not use it as part of their own history and ID. That's what I mean.