Orange is the New Black: Season 2 Discussion

[imperfect_cupcake]

Yeah, I do like that they make people three dimensional. Not just all good/all bad, Disney villan-good fairy kind of thing.

[Dude]

I am still tripping on the back story of all this.
The man they testified against is thriving in Nigeria.
He is still fighting extradition and thus far winning.
Their case against him seems to not be very good and he is
buddies with the president of Nigeria.

Definately not , someone to mess with

He was worth a mere 800 million back in the 90's and
has since become even more powerful ,successful and
established as a " legit" businessman.
Prince Buruji Kashamu.
He is on Facebook, FFs! He likes mcdonalds :] and being free...
I imagine.
If I was on that list of people testifying against him, I would go
Underground. Instead , this woman writes a book and is enjoying
her new celebrity status?
I don't get it.
Catherine Wolter ( the real Alex) just got off parole this past april.
In the article I read , she seemed to imply the parole thing as the reason she has not
spoken up earlier. She wants to get back with one of her prison wives.
Horrible mug shot , I'd be mad at Piper too. I couldn't find an official booking one for Piper.
Her sister Ellen , who had a romance with the guy might be the smartest
of all and stay discrete?

Yeah , yeah ( I know )
Back to Alex
They would not let her meet the real Alex ( before)
I'm hoping they will now before season 3.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Dude

I am still tripping on the back story of all this.

She wants to get back with one of her prison wives.
Horrible mug shot , I'd be mad at Piper too. I couldn't find an official booking one for Piper.
Her sister Ellen , who had a romance with the guy might be the smartest
of all and stay discrete?

Yeah , yeah ( I know )
Back to Alex
They would not let her meet the real Alex ( before)
I'm hoping they will now before season 3.

If I was in prison (!) I would definitely want a prison hubby/butch.

My long-term ex used to work at Sybil Brand in LA and they used to put all the obvious butch dykes in what was commonly called "The Daddy Tank".

*Sigh*

In my fantasy version, I'm the only femme in the daddy tank.

[Gentle Tiger]

I will never see a white van in the same way again.

[ProfPacker]

Just finished the book. It really only provided the shell for the series. After reading it Ican really appreciate, no, I am in awe of the writing, Jenji Kohn' s conceptualization off the characters and the richness of the women's interactions.Wow, she is a fucking genius. I can't wait to see what she will do after OITNB

[aishah]

i have complicated feelings about season two. most of it was entertaining (esp. taystee and poussey) but eventually during the last few episodes it got contrived and boring (except for miss rosa's storyline at the end). i really loved daya and the guard's relationship and the complexities this season...they were incredibly realistic in their portrayal of the ups and downs. i was really made uncomfortable by the depiction of black women's lives and suffering and by vee's character. vee was the first completely unsympathetic character in the whole series - even pornstache is portrayed as a somewhat sympathetic character - and she is a black woman. it just really went too far for me with the way the group of black women were portrayed this season, as entertainment for an audience that's mostly white. it was realllllly hard to get past that and i'm hoping that more people start speaking up about it. i did really like that this season seemed to take a more big-picture view and address the issues of disenchantment (on behalf of the guards who started out wanting to do something good) and the overall corporate corruption of prisons.

[candy_coated_bitch]

Originally Posted by aishah

i have complicated feelings about season two. most of it was entertaining (esp. taystee and poussey) but eventually during the last few episodes it got contrived and boring (except for miss rosa's storyline at the end). i really loved daya and the guard's relationship and the complexities this season...they were incredibly realistic in their portrayal of the ups and downs. i was really made uncomfortable by the depiction of black women's lives and suffering and by vee's character. vee was the first completely unsympathetic character in the whole series - even pornstache is portrayed as a somewhat sympathetic character - and she is a black woman. it just really went too far for me with the way the group of black women were portrayed this season, as entertainment for an audience that's mostly white. it was realllllly hard to get past that and i'm hoping that more people start speaking up about it. i did really like that this season seemed to take a more big-picture view and address the issues of disenchantment (on behalf of the guards who started out wanting to do something good) and the overall corporate corruption of prisons.

I have been reading the thread and enjoying the discussion, and wanting to post but just haven't had the energy I guess.

aishah: I wanted to address what you wrote about the portrayal of black women in the series, and in particular Vee. It feels important and if nothing else I just want to say I heard you and am thinking about it. Maybe you and/or others would like to engage in further discussion about it?

As a white person I want to try and be respectful and open as possible to whatever racism may be going on in all of that. I will also say up front I did not experience the story line with Vee, Taystee, Crazy Eyes, Cindy, and Poussey in exactly the same way you did. I'm trying to check my white privilege in that.

I was very disturbed by Vee and what she did to the others, especially how she manipulated Crazy Eyes and also Taystee's loyalty to her. I agree that she was the only character in the series that came across as completely villainous. She had no redeeming qualities. I do find Pornstache repulsive and think he is more pathetic than SYMpathetic, but that's just me. But certainly the implications are different with Vee.

For me, I didn't see the depictions of black women as monolithic. I'm trying to think about how the stories about them as a GROUP are harmful. I see them as all having different experiences and motivations. Like, Taystee trying to be loyal to the only mother figure she's ever known, while at the same time fighting against her sense of what she knows deep down is right and her love for her best friend. Crazy Eyes just wants to be loved and accepted. Black Cindy I am not entirely certain of her motivation, actually.

I found Poussey a character that really blossomed over this season. I loved hearing her story and I think she was dimensional and brave and had amazing amounts of integrity and love. Also, as the only openly queer black woman on the show and the most masculine presenting black woman--she seems important.

So, I guess I am struggling with seeing the line between laying open black women's struggles for the consumption of white folks and brutal honesty. What do you think could have been differently to make the stories of the black women seem less racist?