Lesbian Couple "Looks into Transgender" as a Loophole to Get Married

[BullDog]

She felt she needed to be male to get legally married, she may have had to say she felt male to get chest surgery- I don't know about the latter. Separate things or aligned? Who knows. I doubt she had chest surgery "for fun." I am not sure that automatically means she was lying or had ill intent. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. From the small clip I saw she didn't appear to know much about the process of transition, especially when she said she looked into transgender. She just doesn't sound knowledgeable to me. I see a lot of assumptions being made about her that may or may not be true.

If the process of getting your sex changed is easier these days, that's great news. Transsexed individuals are the ones who will benefit.

So I guess if I ever have the money to have chest surgery and need to say I feel I am male in order to get it, I will just not discuss my experience with other queers. The binary is certainly alive and well.

[DapperButch]

I posted something and then deleted it. I thought what would remain was my reason for deletion which was: "I broke my cardinal rule of not engaging on heated topics". Anyway, that didn't post, so I am posting this to acknowledge my deleting of a post.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Originally Posted by BullDog

She just doesn't sound knowledgeable to me.

This was the thing that got me too. She actually seemed pretty clueless about the whole thing. I can't image if that laws are as they are that she felt she had to have the surgery. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story, which is unfortunate, because the way it was presented was potentially-harmful to the community at large.

[BullDog]

Yes the news story made it sound like she had to chop off her breasts to become male to get married. I doubt that's the real story.

She very well may have wanted to have chest surgery- whether she was getting married or not- and that may or may not indicate feeling she is male/transgender/transsexed.

I am a butch woman and have no feelings of being transsexed or transgendered or male and I really, really want to have chest surgery. Yesterday I was trying on shirts and hated how my chest area looked. No it is not the same thing as being born into the wrong body or being assigned the wrong sex at birth. But it is body dysmorphia for me and my body does not all line up with my gender or sexuality as a stone butch. My discomfort level is getting worse. I don't know if it is getting older, gaining weight and other personal issues I have been dealing with, but it is getting worse. I really need to start that piggy bank for surgery. If I ever do undergo that process, I will be navigating a system not really set up for someone like me, so I will just have to do the best I can and hopefully I won't have to lie about anything. I really don't know.

So I when I read some of the comments here or at Huffington Post or Gawker or other places it feels crappy. My situation is not exactly the same, but in some ways it does feel personal to me.

Gender, sexuality and how we feel about our bodies is not easy for any of us. For butches- most of are in the space between whether we clearly id as female/woman or male/man or not.

The laws are fucked up for transsexed/transgender people and they are for lesbians and gay men too.

[Kelt]

I'm glad that the laws are changing so that people getting more rights around what they can do to their bodies. It has always puzzled me as to why I can get my chest added to with just a checkbook, but having it altered the other way requires a checkbook and analysis. It seems silly to me. Any other body part I want to change? No problem! 25 years ago I had elective eye surgery, I had it done in another country because they were much more experienced, but still, just a check, no question as to my sanity.

As for having top surgery without having a specific "male" transition in mind, this is changing quickly. I belong to another forum (not BF oriented) that has people of every conceivable stripe, and there is a lot of interest in top surgery for cis women and many other variations on gender, gender queers who just want to be non-gendered, and third gendered persons.

The requirements are ridiculous and are changing although not quickly enough. In my opinion this should be like any other elective surgery, a personal decision for personal reasons.

[EnderD_503]

The surgeon I went to here will operate on people who identify as gender queer/gender neutral, butch etc. Psychiatrists are becoming more accepting when it comes to approving people who identify as the above for top surgery as well...but just like with trans guys there are similar hurdles to jump as far as needing to convince them that you identify the way you do, that surgery is a big enough "need"( ) and the usual.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

The surgeon I went to here will operate on people who identify as gender queer/gender neutral, butch etc. Psychiatrists are becoming more accepting when it comes to approving people who identify as the above for top surgery as well...but just like with trans guys there are similar hurdles to jump as far as needing to convince them that you identify the way you do, that surgery is a big enough "need"( ) and the usual.

Yes, more respected surgeons are becoming open to operating on genderqueer individuals. For example, although Garramone still requires a letter, he is very welcoming to genderqueer individuals. His letter only requires the therapist to say that the surgery "is the next step in the transition process" (or something close to that...hell, how do you think I got him to operate on me? ).

Of course, you could always find a surgeon who didn't follow the Standards of Care and didn't require a letter, but historically the surgeons whose results were desired required letters.

Like I said, things are rapidly, very rapidly changing.

As an aside, who did your surgery, EnderD?

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Yes, more respected surgeons are becoming open to operating on genderqueer individuals. For example, although Garramone still requires a letter, he is very welcoming to genderqueer individuals. His letter only requires the therapist to say that the surgery "is the next step in the transition process" (or something close to that...hell, how do you think I got him to operate on me? ).

Of course, you could always find a surgeon who didn't follow the Standards of Care and didn't require a letter, but historically the surgeons whose results were desired required letters.

Like I said, things are rapidly, very rapidly changing.

As an aside, who did your surgery, EnderD?

I had my surgery with Dr. McLean in Mississauga (Ontario, Canada). He's probably the best known top surgeon here and has been performing top surgery since the 80s. He also didn't require a letter. All he asked was a few questions about how I identified, how long since I'd come out, transition etc. and then gave me all the info I needed about preparation, risks etc. He seemed more concerned about making sure I was making an informed decision than he was about identity. Much more refreshing than going through CamH where you run the risk of getting a shit shrink who makes you jump through hoops, and in comparison to those I know who got it through them, I thought McLean was a lot more professional and cautious about both the surgery and the follow-ups.

Personally, I was very satisfied with the results and was also glad that he didn't use drains (one of the reasons I chose him). He was also really thorough about follow-ups and scar treatment.