Legalization of drugs, pros and cons!

[PearlsNLace]

I work for a clinic that treats people who have become addicted to prescription drugs.

We also treat Heroin and cocaine addictions also.

I can not tell the desperation apart, when these people first come into treatment. Without reading the charts, all I see are the miserable symptoms of withdrawl.


Knowing this, would I make it legal? Hell yeah. Making it illegal really only punishes the families, and makes the cycles of addiction worse, due to the compound effect of secretive shame, the harrassment of law enforcement- and the financial drain that at this point benfits NOT A DAMN person worth having it. Use the money from taxes and what-not for education and then treatment if/when addiction happens.

I dont see a difference, outside of cultural acceptance, of a prescribed pill vs a street drug. They are all hard drugs. The road to recovery is brutal for all of them. Less likely for Heroin? Perhaps. But I do believe a large portion of that is due to the very nature of what it takes to AQUIRE those drugs, and that has to do with it being illegal, and not regulated.

So, just in case you were wondering, YES I do believe we need to change the way prescription drugs are regulated in this country. The current system has some doctors scared to medicate patients when they have pain, have other doctors just writing carte blanc scripts that get sold on the black market. Our system is NOT working. And then there are the countless who are no longer even seeking medical advice, and aquiring meds somehow on their own without medical training at all. These things scare me. Our system does not work.
I dont see this changing though. Currently the system is benifiting pharmaceutical companies, and they pay the politicians.

If you want something changed, you dont protest, you shell out cash. If this is jaded, I am willing to look at another view. For today, this is my opinion.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

I work for a clinic that treats people who have become addicted to prescription drugs.

We also treat Heroin and cocaine addictions also.

I can not tell the desperation apart, when these people first come into treatment. Without reading the charts, all I see are the miserable symptoms of withdrawl.


Knowing this, would I make it legal? Hell yeah. Making it illegal really only punishes the families, and makes the cycles of addiction worse, due to the compound effect of secretive shame, the harrassment of law enforcement- and the financial drain that at this point benfits NOT A DAMN person worth having it. Use the money from taxes and what-not for education and then treatment if/when addiction happens.

I dont see a difference, outside of cultural acceptance, of a prescribed pill vs a street drug. They are all hard drugs. The road to recovery is brutal for all of them. Less likely for Heroin? Perhaps. But I do believe a large portion of that is due to the very nature of what it takes to AQUIRE those drugs, and that has to do with it being illegal, and not regulated.

So, just in case you were wondering, YES I do believe we need to change the way prescription drugs are regulated in this country. The current system has some doctors scared to medicate patients when they have pain, have other doctors just writing carte blanc scripts that get sold on the black market. Our system is NOT working. And then there are the countless who are no longer even seeking medical advice, and aquiring meds somehow on their own without medical training at all. These things scare me. Our system does not work.
I dont see this changing though. Currently the system is benifiting pharmaceutical companies, and they pay the politicians.

If you want something changed, you dont protest, you shell out cash. If this is jaded, I am willing to look at another view. For today, this is my opinion.

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

Addiction is a DISEASE.

Alcohol is legal. Oxycontin is legal. Where I live, medicinal marijuana is legal.

Regulate the disease, take away the criminal element of most substances and let doctors treat addiction patients in offices, in a medical setting where the disease can be addressed.

It would help me in my daily encounters with addicts because I would not worry about somebody robbing my home, stealing my car, etc. etc., in order to procure illegal substances. Instead, a medical professional can help the addict and treat the disease.

Imagine the taking back of neighborhoods? The removal of the allure of quick cash selling crack/heroin/meth on the street corner for fast big cash? We'd get our youth back, and our future may not look so bleak.j

I don't think it is completely crazy to think about.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Oxycotin caused me to have a heart attack. I am not surprised it legal in CA. It takes a year or so for things to come across and make it to the East Coast.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Oxycotin caused me to have a heart attack. I am not surprised it legal in CA. It takes a year or so for things to come across and make it to the East Coast.

It is sold with a prescription in FL. Perhaps the State you reside at is different.

[Massive]

I have to say, I found this thread very interesting, but mostly for the fact that not many who've posted have mentioned actually using these so called 'recreational' drugs, I personally smoke pot, but not for fun, I smoke because first and foremost it is the most effective painkiller for my disability.
I've had rheumatoid arthritis since I was in my teens and I've been put on most of the drugs available from the BMA (British Medical Association), now there are some which are only available in the US, because the medical association here deems them to be too unsafe/untested to prescribe to Brits, and those I have taken have more often than not had such major side-effects that I was worse off on them than off, so, if my RA's really bad, I'd much rather smoke, even my Consultant in hospital only has issues with my smoking pot because of the fact that I am smoking and not eating it ... Most doctors and police officers I know would legalise some drugs in a heart-beat, because they know of the benefits and in regards to the police, it would be far less paperwork/foot slogging for them to do.
Amsterdam hasn't fallen apart since it was made legal there, and I don't see how a country cannot benefit from legalising the likes of pot. Harder drugs, however, is a different matter, I've seen heroin kill people, I've bured two friends, so far, who've OD'd, and I don't care to see that happen to any more of my friends.
So, should drugs be legalised? IMHO, some should yes, whereas others, definately not, isn't it bad enough that kids are out on the streets killing each others with knives and guns without giving them free reign to then kill each other with 'bad' batches of their drug of choice??

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Massive

I have to say, I found this thread very interesting, but mostly for the fact that not many who've posted have mentioned actually using these so called 'recreational' drugs, I personally smoke pot, but not for fun, I smoke because first and foremost it is the most effective painkiller for my disability.
I've had rheumatoid arthritis since I was in my teens and I've been put on most of the drugs available from the BMA (British Medical Association), now there are some which are only available in the US, because the medical association here deems them to be too unsafe/untested to prescribe to Brits, and those I have taken have more often than not had such major side-effects that I was worse off on them than off, so, if my RA's really bad, I'd much rather smoke, even my Consultant in hospital only has issues with my smoking pot because of the fact that I am smoking and not eating it ... Most doctors and police officers I know would legalise some drugs in a heart-beat, because they know of the benefits and in regards to the police, it would be far less paperwork/foot slogging for them to do.
Amsterdam hasn't fallen apart since it was made legal there, and I don't see how a country cannot benefit from legalising the likes of pot. Harder drugs, however, is a different matter, I've seen heroin kill people, I've bured two friends, so far, who've OD'd, and I don't care to see that happen to any more of my friends.
So, should drugs be legalised? IMHO, some should yes, whereas others, definately not, isn't it bad enough that kids are out on the streets killing each others with knives and guns without giving them free reign to then kill each other with 'bad' batches of their drug of choice??

I hear this often from other RA sufferers - pot helping with pain and even the swelling, stiffness, etc. There are times I wish this was something I could utilize for RA. I have just never cared for pot myself, even when first using it as a teen. It just makes me too anxious and I don't like feeling out of control, which the anxiety brings with iton for me. Probably a wiring thing.... However, I have met other people that have the same difficulty with pot. Alcohol isn't something I like all that much either and don't like to be around people that are way drunk or high. Acupuncture helps me quite a bit, but my insurance won't cover the treatments. Crazy- they will cover pain killers that can be addictive or are not so great to take while trying to work, or just live life.

CA has a pot decriminalization measure coming up and it includes taxation. I am going to vote for it. Msdemeanor's sentiments about this align with mine. Criminalization of pot just seems nuts to me overall.

I do not, however, believe pot to be totally safe, but think adults ought to make up their own minds about its possible side effects, especially with frequent, long-term use. On the other hand, it does have some positive medicinal purposes that have been demonstrated for a very long time. Other substances are a different matter for me.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Addiction is a DISEASE.

Alcohol is legal. Oxycontin is legal. Where I live, medicinal marijuana is legal.

Regulate the disease, take away the criminal element of most substances and let doctors treat addiction patients in offices, in a medical setting where the disease can be addressed.

It would help me in my daily encounters with addicts because I would not worry about somebody robbing my home, stealing my car, etc. etc., in order to procure illegal substances. Instead, a medical professional can help the addict and treat the disease.

Imagine the taking back of neighborhoods? The removal of the allure of quick cash selling crack/heroin/meth on the street corner for fast big cash? We'd get our youth back, and our future may not look so bleak.j

I don't think it is completely crazy to think about.

Sorry to disagree with your logic, although I can see it. I don't see where making becoming addicted easier will make getting treatment any better. They don't give federal money now for addicts. Why would that change? There was a short period in the 80's where "treatment" was the trendy thing to do and insurance companies actually paid for it. Those days are way over and it is now "optional". Imagine that. It's optional to get treatment, as it is optional to become an addict. So says Blue Cross.

I try to see the point in legalizing highly addictive chemicals, but sorry, I just don't.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

Sorry to disagree with your logic, although I can see it. I don't see where making becoming addicted easier will make getting treatment any better. They don't give federal money now for addicts. Why would that change? There was a short period in the 80's where "treatment" was the trendy thing to do and insurance companies actually paid for it. Those days are way over and it is now "optional". Imagine that. It's optional to get treatment, as it is optional to become an addict. So says Blue Cross.

I try to see the point in legalizing highly addictive chemicals, but sorry, I just don't.

It's okay. We can totally agree to disagree. I don't think decriminalization will make becoming an addict any easier.

When I walk down the alcohol aisle in my supermarket? I always people watch who is buying booze. Because anyone buying it could be an alcoholic, but not everyone buying it is an alcoholic. They're walking by the same racks of booze after all.

I was almost killed by a drunk driver, but because it was a hit & run case when we got to court he was sentence to the maximum allowed for hit & run. Four years. I pleaded with the court to send him to a rehabilitation facility or to at least order AA when he paroled. The law didn't allow for that. I don't think prison time is going to help this young man at ALL but rather send out an angrier more volatile person. Who most likely will drink and drive again. How is that justice for either one of us or for potential victims?

As for the Blue Cross? Often times when you have cancer they deem chemo "not medically necessary" so yeah. They are the devil because they are allowed to be.

[Toughy]

For the sake of disclosure.........

I have done damn near every street drug in every way you can think of and probably some you can't......laughin.... starting back in 1970 when I was 18 yrs old. So I have a bit of experience around this. I gave all that shit up 20-25 years ago. I'm just a pot smoker now and I have a medical marijuana card (I have RA). You could not pay me enough money to do white powder every again. Mother Nature's hallucinogens (mushrooms, peyote).....well I might do them again....although I am taking way to many pharmaceuticals and I worry about interactions.

I say legalize every drug on the street........all of them and make needles available for free at every drugstore (this would help out diabetics cuz they use the same needles junkies use). Legalize, tax, control the manufacture and distribution of said drugs. Treat them like alcohol and tobacco with age restrictions. It's really a no-brainer in my mind. Europe has models that work well for this.

Legalize prostitution also, but that is another thread.

There are other abstinence based recovery programs. AA is not the only game in town. LifeRing is one of them and it doesn't require powerlessness or giving up control to some higher power/god. It is against the law for a court to mandate AA as the treatment program. Courts can mandate treatment, but they can't say it has to be AA/12 Step based.

No one knows why one becomes an addict. It is not a character defect. People who have perfectly normal self esteem can be addicted to any substance. It does not run in families despite what folks say....there is no data to back that up. I personally don't subscribe to the 'disease' model. That was thought up so the health insurance companies and treatment programs could make big time bucks treating the disease. Addiction is a change in brain chemistry.....particularly in the dopamine (the pleasure chemical) pathways.

Oxycontin is a brand name for oxycodone....so is Percocet, Percodan, etc. Oxycontin is a time released version and was approved in the mid 90's. Percocet/Percodan have been around since the mid 70's. It is similar to morphine and is used for chronic pain. The FDA controls drugs and to my knowledge no state has said these drugs cannot be sold in their state..........I'm not sure they can and it would be incredibly stupid if they did.

ok done I think...........but back to the original question and as I have said many times over many years........legalize them all......you can't control what is illegal.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Toughy

There are other abstinence based recovery programs. AA is not the only game in town. LifeRing is one of them and it doesn't require powerlessness or giving up control to some higher power/god. It is against the law for a court to mandate AA as the treatment program. Courts can mandate treatment, but they can't say it has to be AA/12 Step based.

Good to know that the courts can't demand a person goes to AA specifically. I get (believe me, I do!) that AA has done a world of good for some people - but the whole god thing kinda squicks me out. I always felt like they were just encouraging people to replace one crutch with another, you know?

[PearlsNLace]

Originally Posted by Jess

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

My positition is that there is no law, no war, no defense against addiction outside of education.

My postition is pro regulation, not because it will be an addiction deterrent. But because it would provide better resources for the addictions that will happen, no matter how they are accessed.


My positition is that laws criminalizing chemicals compounds, not prevents, the complicated problems of addictions.

My position is that the war on drugs does nothing to prevent addiction, and has only profitted the wrong people.

My postition is that ESPECIALLY for our community, education is vital, alternative social outlets that are NOT chemically centered are essential, and that our members suffer harsher consequences in our current legal system when caught.

Is that more clear?

[UofMfan]

My headache is gone thanks to everyone that wished it so. I have a lot to read and catch up on.

I want to thank everyone who has participated.

Be back later to comment.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

My positition is that there is no law, no war, no defense against addiction outside of education.

My postition is pro regulation, not because it will be an addiction deterrent. But because it would provide better resources for the addictions that will happen, no matter how they are accessed.


My positition is that laws criminalizing chemicals compounds, not prevents, the complicated problems of addictions.

My position is that the war on drugs does nothing to prevent addiction, and has only profitted the wrong people.

My postition is that ESPECIALLY for our community, education is vital, alternative social outlets that are NOT chemically centered are essential, and that our members suffer harsher consequences in our current legal system when caught.

Is that more clear?

Thanks Miss Pearls. I do get what you are saying. I don't see addiction(s) ever going away. Legal or not folks are still going to do illegal things to get drugs. Percocet is legal and how many folks sell their scripts on the street? Know what I mean?

I guess legalizing it all does remove it more from the hands of "dealers" and puts it back into the hands of the government. It will also make the "outlaws" just find new illegal drugs. I think a huge part of the whole drug lure is IN it's illegality. Part of the "gangster" ( outlaw/ rebel/ moonshiner/ anti-authority) mindset.

I guess my biggest thing is seeing access to helpful medicinal drugs more readily available and not necessarily the narcotics, etc.