Legalization of drugs, pros and cons!

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Toughy

headaches are contagious...........I have one now......my cure is:

hot black tea and a big fat joint...........and no stomach upset......

Ha, and I usually take to Advils go figure.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

The secretary signs it so the court knows they are going to meetings. LifeRing conveners sign those documents also. So do the facilitators of other recovery meetings.

You would be surprized at the data on all recovery programs. More folks get clean and sober without a program than with a program.....and no they are not what AA calls 'dry drunks'.........

this is a derail I think............

I am not an AA member, and am not in any way advocating that theirs is the only way. I used them in my post because it was the first thing that came to mind. My court card question was mere curiosity. I'd seen it done and was curious as to why.

Sorry for the derail and the headache. Pass that thing please.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Ha, and I usually take to Advils go figure.

Brandy's headache remedy:

3 Advil, 2 Tylenol Sinus, half a pot of coffee, a hot bath, an icepack on my forehead, tigerbalm to the temples, eat something with lots of protein in it, scoop the kittylitter box.

I figure if I do all of those things pretty much at once that I've covered my basis and solved whatever it is that caused the headache to begin with.

Hi. I'm being offtopic.

[AtLast]

No caffiene? Oh, no....

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jess

Just to let ya know... I never once used heredity as a premise for addiction , although some science does say it plays a role.

While I do see professional sports as bull shit, that is just my opinion and I also played sports in school and found great commraderie in the kinship of completing a common goal.

I don't know how you define Human Rights vs Equal rights, nor do you know how I do as we have not directly addressed this, so I do not understand how you can so readily disagree.

I am sorry you have a headache. Feel better.

[FONT="Century Gothic"]
Early brain studies demonstrated a consistent hereditary relationship between male children and their father’s. concerning alcoholism incidence. But I don’t know if current research has shed any light on this and also the early work just did not focus on women alcoholics. Kind of the same thing as has been true in many medical research areas in which men were the focus (i.e., early heart disease research). Lots of factors of male privilege and stereotypical assumptions about women are behind this. The woman alcoholic was pretty much disregarded for decades. And not studied until women began to enter colleges, professions and the workforce at large in greater numbers. Now, in relationship to breast cancer (in women) and prostate cancer and even testicular cancer in men, the research was skewed in the other direction. Interesting to think about this as historically men seek medical attention less than women and this has some pretty stereotypic gender role assumptions behind it.


This could be very different today (I’m just no longer up with this literature). Also, the advances in MRI imaging and brain studies could have yielded new data. Maybe someone here knows more about current heredity research and alcoholism or other types of addictions that isn’t influenced in the same ways. There could possibly be research today that takes into consideration transgendered and intergendered people and addiction from a heredity perspective. I wonder..... this could throw a whole new set of variables in the mix!

My mind just works this way.... seems there are ever evolving ways to look at things.[/FONT]

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

Opinion only...

Legalize pot. Never heard of anyone od'ing on pot or committing homicide in a pot induced haze. Never heard of anyone jonesing so bad for pot they commit larceny or murder or rape. Keep narcotics/ opiate derivitives /methamphetamines etc illegal.

I share this opinion.

Alcohol is legal and yet it's abused regularly and, during the course of the abuse, others are hurt through domestic violence, vehicular homicide, home invasions, etc. That won't change and it won't change if harder drugs are legal, either.

Pot has medicinal value. I do think it should be legal and bought and sold with few or no restrictions, as long as parameters are put into place to prevent folks from coming to work high, thus endangering any and all they come into contact with. I also think that...as someone already mentioned...sex workers should be legal and should be allowed to Unionize if they wish.

[Toph]

Legalize Marijuana!!! think of the generated tax revenue that will cushion the tax payer!!!

not that i smoke it or partake but, with its' prooven medicinal qualities, it can not be any worse than alcohol... however, many have lost their jobs over the use of it.

my view is simple
if workers are forced to into [the humiliation of] random drug tests in order to work (and pay taxes), then career social system abusers ought to be randomly drug tested in order to collect our taxes every month...

*please note* i said career social system abusers!!!

[MainelyButch]

Originally Posted by Toughy

headaches are contagious...........I have one now......my cure is:

hot black tea and a big fat joint...........and no stomach upset......

I like your style Toughy. Nothing beats a fatty for a headache. Now where'd I put that roach clip??

[weatherboi]

What is more humane people?? Letting the cartels control whats available on the street or a country that takes responsibility for a systemic and societal problem that is not going away no mater what we do??


Legalization of all drugs may work if we strictly enforce the points below and allow them the opportunity to systemically work there way into our society.The demand for drugs will always exist. Fear based laws and restrictions only allow the cartels the opportunity to put the drugs on our street. People, those drugs will be finding the way on the street no matter what!!!! We as a country have been fighting the war on drugs since Nixon and it has only cost lives and money. Being in the hospitality industry there is one thing I have learned. If an employee is gonna do drugs on the job it doesn't matter if they are legal or not...he/she is gonna do drugs. If a person is so depressed or distressed that they turn to heroin then they are gonna find it and do it weather it is legal or not.

People have been choosing drugs for self medication purposes, in some form or fashion, since time began. It is inherent in almost every culture on this earth. Why not make them legal so we can control the product???


Permit private companies to compete for licenses to cultivate, harvest, manufacture, package and peddle drugs.

Create regulation agencies (sorry libertarians and paleo-conservatives).

Sanitation, potency and purity. Standards people!! Set em and enforce em!!

In no way shape form or fashion can anything be advertised.

Taxes, fees and fines need to be imposed. Drug-abuse prevention and treatment programs can be paid from this and cover admin costs from regulation.

Just like the alcoholic-beverage-control agencies keep bars and liquor stores in check, the same can be dome with drugs. Understand there will always be a negative element to the drug world weather they are legal or not. Such reforms would in no way excuse drug users who commit crimes.

[Apocalipstic]

I used to teach the alcohol classes to be able to serve alcohol in TN, I could start a new career teaching drug classes.

*beam*

[Jess]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

[FONT="Century Gothic"]
Early brain studies demonstrated a consistent hereditary relationship between male children and their father’s. concerning alcoholism incidence. But I don’t know if current research has shed any light on this and also the early work just did not focus on women alcoholics. Kind of the same thing as has been true in many medical research areas in which men were the focus (i.e., early heart disease research). Lots of factors of male privilege and stereotypical assumptions about women are behind this. The woman alcoholic was pretty much disregarded for decades. And not studied until women began to enter colleges, professions and the workforce at large in greater numbers. Now, in relationship to breast cancer (in women) and prostate cancer and even testicular cancer in men, the research was skewed in the other direction. Interesting to think about this as historically men seek medical attention less than women and this has some pretty stereotypic gender role assumptions behind it.


This could be very different today (I’m just no longer up with this literature). Also, the advances in MRI imaging and brain studies could have yielded new data. Maybe someone here knows more about current heredity research and alcoholism or other types of addictions that isn’t influenced in the same ways. There could possibly be research today that takes into consideration transgendered and intergendered people and addiction from a heredity perspective. I wonder..... this could throw a whole new set of variables in the mix!

My mind just works this way.... seems there are ever evolving ways to look at things.[/FONT]

Great points. Actually breast cancer research was primarily done on men for years. I think it was around 1989 or so that a huge push was made to do more research on women, cause gee, ya know.. we have breasts.

Now that we actually have cases of men getting types of breast cancer of course we need to do more work with their bodies.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

What is more humane people?? Letting the cartels control whats available on the street or a country that takes responsibility for a systemic and societal problem that is not going away no mater what we do??


Legalization of all drugs may work if we strictly enforce the points below and allow them the opportunity to systemically work there way into our society.The demand for drugs will always exist. Fear based laws and restrictions only allow the cartels the opportunity to put the drugs on our street. People, those drugs will be finding the way on the street no matter what!!!! We as a country have been fighting the war on drugs since Nixon and it has only cost lives and money. Being in the hospitality industry there is one thing I have learned. If an employee is gonna do drugs on the job it doesn't matter if they are legal or not...he/she is gonna do drugs. If a person is so depressed or distressed that they turn to heroin then they are gonna find it and do it weather it is legal or not.

People have been choosing drugs for self medication purposes, in some form or fashion, since time began. It is inherent in almost every culture on this earth. Why not make them legal so we can control the product???


Permit private companies to compete for licenses to cultivate, harvest, manufacture, package and peddle drugs.

Create regulation agencies (sorry libertarians and paleo-conservatives).

Sanitation, potency and purity. Standards people!! Set em and enforce em!!

In no way shape form or fashion can anything be advertised.

Taxes, fees and fines need to be imposed. Drug-abuse prevention and treatment programs can be paid from this and cover admin costs from regulation.

Just like the alcoholic-beverage-control agencies keep bars and liquor stores in check, the same can be dome with drugs. Understand there will always be a negative element to the drug world weather they are legal or not. Such reforms would in no way excuse drug users who commit crimes.

[/COLOR][/FONT][FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="Navy"]It seems (need to look at the actual language) that the proposed decriminalization and taxation of pot in CA proposition could begin movement toward this kind of model for other substances in CA and nationwide. Just have to see how it plays out, if it passes (looks like it will... well, if mega-bucks religious neo-cons don't grab hold with campaigns to defeat it).

It is hard for a lot of people (including myself, sometimes) to let go of long standing beliefs about drug use and certain kinds of drugs, but, these beliefs have certainly not done much to really deal with this whole issue effectively. The entanglements with crimes related to drugs really gets in the way with changing attitudes. Or to have effective and equally accessible treatment available to people.

I think you should write the legislation! Wouldn't it be great to have short, clear, direct language instead of the mega-loophole compositions most legislation ends up being! Also, what has been done in the past and still exists, isn't working.

[PearlsNLace]

Originally Posted by Jess

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

My positition is that there is no law, no war, no defense against addiction outside of education.

My postition is pro regulation, not because it will be an addiction deterrent. But because it would provide better resources for the addictions that will happen, no matter how they are accessed.


My positition is that laws criminalizing chemicals compounds, not prevents, the complicated problems of addictions.

My position is that the war on drugs does nothing to prevent addiction, and has only profitted the wrong people.

My postition is that ESPECIALLY for our community, education is vital, alternative social outlets that are NOT chemically centered are essential, and that our members suffer harsher consequences in our current legal system when caught.

Is that more clear?

[UofMfan]

My headache is gone thanks to everyone that wished it so. I have a lot to read and catch up on.

I want to thank everyone who has participated.

Be back later to comment.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

My positition is that there is no law, no war, no defense against addiction outside of education.

My postition is pro regulation, not because it will be an addiction deterrent. But because it would provide better resources for the addictions that will happen, no matter how they are accessed.


My positition is that laws criminalizing chemicals compounds, not prevents, the complicated problems of addictions.

My position is that the war on drugs does nothing to prevent addiction, and has only profitted the wrong people.

My postition is that ESPECIALLY for our community, education is vital, alternative social outlets that are NOT chemically centered are essential, and that our members suffer harsher consequences in our current legal system when caught.

Is that more clear?

Thanks Miss Pearls. I do get what you are saying. I don't see addiction(s) ever going away. Legal or not folks are still going to do illegal things to get drugs. Percocet is legal and how many folks sell their scripts on the street? Know what I mean?

I guess legalizing it all does remove it more from the hands of "dealers" and puts it back into the hands of the government. It will also make the "outlaws" just find new illegal drugs. I think a huge part of the whole drug lure is IN it's illegality. Part of the "gangster" ( outlaw/ rebel/ moonshiner/ anti-authority) mindset.

I guess my biggest thing is seeing access to helpful medicinal drugs more readily available and not necessarily the narcotics, etc.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jess

Great points. Actually breast cancer research was primarily done on men for years. I think it was around 1989 or so that a huge push was made to do more research on women, cause gee, ya know.. we have breasts.

Now that we actually have cases of men getting types of breast cancer of course we need to do more work with their bodies.

Thanks... I kind of remember the nutso collection of breast cancer data about men initially. I think that the push to study women (yeah, we do have those breasts!) also shifted due to the upsurge of estrogen related breast cancer after the early years of women taking birth control pills. The first BC pills available had insane amounts of estgrogen!!! My Mom was in the first clinical trials of the little pink pill and devoloped one of these breast cancers. Also, many women taking the early generation of the pill developed problems conceiving when they did desire to get pregnant.

Absolutely, cancer research needs to be gender neutral...

[Toughy]

I'm not remembering that breast cancer research was done in men first.........shrug...........who has a link for this? Cancer research should not always be gender neutral. There are cancers that are not gender neutral.

Narcotics.......poppy based pharmaceutical drugs in the morphine family.........have huge medicinal value.

I'm a self proclaimed outlaw and proud of it. I never have done any drug because of the thrill of doing something illegal.....and none of my friends did it for some bogus crap like that.............

My granddaddy was a moonshiner (and the sheriff)........he didn't make moonshine for some thrill of breaking the law...he was the law.....he did it cuz he liked moonshine and liked the money he made from selling it..........

Romanticizing why folks use is not useful.

I think it is a red herring to suggest pot or any other drug should be legal based on medicinal value. I'm not a fan of the 'legalize pot because it's medicinal' club. Legalize pot because it's stupid to have it illegal. It grows everywhere and I mean everywhere in the world.

I think drug testing for employment is bullshit. I don't care if the clerk at the local grocery store is stoned or not.......who gives a shit as long as they can pass the product across the bar code machine. Drug testing that finds THC present says nothing about my ability to function at the time I pissed in the cup. It just says I smoked pot sometime in the last 2-3 days or month or was in a room full of folks smoking the night before. General employment drug screens only say positive or negative. You can test positive for pot for years after you last smoked some........THC is fat soluble (is stored in fat) chemical and if you start losing weight you can test positive even if you haven't smoked pot for months.

Anyone with half a brain can figure out the half-life of the their prescribed or illegal drug of choice..........it's all out there on the net. Pre-emploment drug testing is kind of like you have to take off your shoes and are limited to only 3 oz containers of liquids and toothpaste and they must be in a quart baggie ....and then there was you can have up to 3 books of matches but NO lighters.........ignorant bullshit that gives you a false sense of security. And if you have a prescription then it's all good.

[Nat]

I have mixed feelings. I think most drugs should be legal, but I would hesitate at really damaging drugs like meth and coke and heroine, etc. Drugs where the minute you get addicted, you may very easily do permanent damage to your health and brain.

Still, I'd rather see people placed in treatment than in prison.

I do not think that drug use is a victimless crime - when it comes to serious drugs. When a person is seriously addicted to something that keeps them from living, wanting to live, thinking relatively clearly, working, parenting, etc., I really feel like that's a crime that affects everybody in that person's life and also people that person doesn't even know - like those who end up paying the hospital bills. At the same time, most of that can be said of alcohol too, and that idea puts me right back on the fence.

I guess I'd go for legalizing the safer drugs and decriminalizing the rest. If use of some drug leads to driving while intoxicated or the commission of other crimes either due to lack of judgment or a need to feed the addiction with cash, then those crimes should most definitely be punished.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Narcotics.......poppy based pharmaceutical drugs in the morphine family.........have huge medicinal value.


Based on what you say about pot below and its medicinal value (red herring), I wonder you mention this.

I think it is a red herring to suggest pot or any other drug should be legal based on medicinal value. I'm not a fan of the 'legalize pot because it's medicinal' club. Legalize pot because it's stupid to have it illegal. It grows everywhere and I mean everywhere in the world.

I think drug testing for employment is bullshit. I don't care if the clerk at the local grocery store is stoned or not.......who gives a shit as long as they can pass the product across the bar code machine. Drug testing that finds THC present says nothing about my ability to function at the time I pissed in the cup. It just says I smoked pot sometime in the last 2-3 days or month or was in a room full of folks smoking the night before. General employment drug screens only say positive or negative. You can test positive for pot for years after you last smoked some........THC is fat soluble (is stored in fat) chemical and if you start losing weight you can test positive even if you haven't smoked pot for months.

Who gives a shit? Well, if...for example...it's a police officer and his actions or the speed (or lack thereof, depending on what he's high on) of his actions causes me to get hurt, then fuck yeah, I give a shit.

I give a shit if the people I leave my baby with are smoking it up or snorting or shooting something and my baby wanders off or gets hurt or develops medical issues because of being in the room with them while they processed meth, for example. I'd give one helluva shit about that.

If the doctor performing surgery on me is under the influence of anything, I give a shit.

I would give a shit if a firefighter was buzzing and had reduced reaction times and wasn't able to get all of my family out in time.

I can see a lot of potential lawsuits, actually, which is never a good thing.

On a personal level, my hotel's maintenance department...all two of them...are bona fide potheads. They don't need it. They do it because they're in a band and think that shit is cool. Okay, fine. But they come to work stoned and they smoke it at work and the "work" they do while here is sub-par so when guests find something that's not done right (and occasionally dangerous), then MY ass gets chewed out because I'm the face of the hotel. Fuck that and fuck them for putting the rest of their coworkers in this position. Obviously my personal opinion of them being shitheads colors my vision, but the point is the same. It's not isolated. We all are connected in different ways and the stupid shit one person does drips onto the next.

I can kind of see your line of thinking here, but I'm looking at the big picture. I don't think we'd be able to have one and not the other. Testing is non-negotiable to me.

[wolfwalker]

this is strictly my thoughts on the subject.

the netherlands have long ago given up on doing the drug battle. figuring out that they can not stop people from doing drugs if they so desire. you can sit in a cafe and order a joint of weed as an after dinner treat. you can also buy at shops as in california.

it is interesting to note that they dont have large issues with a lot of other drugs. they do have some problems with addicts but they treat their addicts as humans with problems, not bait for a long jail term. they give their addicts their drugs and clean equipment to use them.they also offer treatment to anyone wanting treatment, not a jail sentence. reason? so they dont go killing, maiming and stealing from people and causing huge grief. this also lowers the aids transmission.

there is a percentage of people destine to be addicts, no way around it.these people are humans and the cost of treatment is much lower then throwing people in jail. they feel that it is the christian thing to do and i agree with their train of thought.

what I do or someone else does in the privacy of their home is not the concern of the law. if i drive down the road and I am high , then the law has a right to do something then, just as they do if i am drunk.

we have laws in place to protect the safety of others. use them to control just as we do with alcohol.

there is a very high percentage of people walking around everyday taking prescibed or over the counter drugs which can be just as dangerous as many non legal drugs. little is done about that other then a warning on the label.

more violence is done in the name of illegal then there would be if they were legal. just look at the border issues and the deaths involved in the illegal trade. people getting tainted drugs and dying etc.

legalize it, regulate it and spend some money on drug treatment.

wolf