Feminism in News and Popular Media

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by Kobi

There are at least two different threads in the FemmeZone that address the ways in which a partner transitioning has caused different types problems for female partners. They have also addressed how they have felt silenced or unable to speak to the changes this poses for them and why.

Theo has spoken to how it is not unusual for relationships to not survive the transition.

I think it is unfair to Femmes to label the impact of transitioning on them as something transphobic.

To do so is to deny their experience, the difficulties they speak of, the internal discourse they go thru, the challenges the transition poses to their own identify, and the lack of support they feel for what THEY are going through.

Transitioning does not occur in a vacuum. It impacts partners, children, parents, siblings, friends, coworkers etc.

This is also not unique to transpersons. People coming out as homosexual also impact those around them as well. Seeing most of us started there, it is or should be something we are very familiar with.

I think to label this very human reaction to a big and perhaps unexpected and unwanted change as a "phobia" is wrong. At times like this, people are struggling, questioning, feeling very alone and very unsupported. What they need is to be able to talk and share and not have to filter what they are going thru for fear of being called some kind of phobia.

Ok, here we go. You have swept a really broad brush and I feel the need to deal with this paint job.

1. To me, as a Transman AND a feminist, the statement that I had an issue with was transphobic. I stand by that. What post is in what thread and by whom does not change my opinion. Kobe, I of all people know what transitioning entails and the impact it can have when not handled with sensitivity to all parties involved. I also know that when handled well, while it may be difficult transitioning doesn't always lead to harm.

I prefaced my comment, with an acknowledgment that "transphobic" has been at times misused. A person, no matter how they identify has a right to express an opinion. And another has a right to agree or respectfully disagree.

2. The part that I called out struck me as coming from a negative starting point. I am keenly aware that everyone connected with the person transitioning will be affected in some way. Of course it doesn't happen in a vacuum. But to see that the focus is on the harm we do to ourselves and bring to others does not sit well at all, especially on a site that includes and welcomes us.

3. I am pretty sure it would not sit well with you if you came and saw a post dealing with the harm femist/feminism bring to themselves and their families and friends.

4. I am all for discussion. And I believe that all involved should work it through. Part of what makes the transition difficult or easier is when there is the presence or absence of honest dialogue. But please do not refer to transgendering or transitioning as if it were harmful. That is where I take issue. Therefore, I took issue with the part I called out.

5. What is unfair is when transitioning is considered harmful. Transitioning can be painful. That doesn't make it harmful. There is loss. That doesn't make it harmful. The difficulty, the struggles, the raw emotions does not mean the process is harmful or that the transgendered person brought harm. There may be individuals who handle the journey of transitioning poorly. And in those cases harm may have been done. I acknowledge that. But my issue is the broad generality of harm being equated with transitioning.

There is more I could say on this but I will stop here.

[Kobi]

Malcolm, I appreciate us having this conversation even if it is over the wording used on a public broadcast blurb which neither of us had control over. The word harmful does have negative connotations to it, thus I can understand why this might be problematical. I didnt write the blurb.

Like you, I think it is important to have these discussions, to share ideas, to clarify and address points of view, to argue language. I think it helps to look at anything from more than one point of view and to find similarities which bring us together as well as the differences which keep us apart. Learning and understanding comes in odd ways sometimes. What is important is that the dialogue continue.

In your original post, you said , " I do not think folks would be ok if "transgendering" was replaced by "lesbian" or "becoming a lesbian" and referred to as being harmful."

Honestly, I have no problem replacing transgendering with lesbian in this situation because it is opposite sides of the same coin. If I were a married hetero woman who came out 20 years later, I expect my husband would have some issues with it. The divorce and separation of property might cause issues for both of us. My kids might be taunted on the playground for have a lezzie as a mother. If I worked for a catholic school system, my lifestyle might cause me to be fired without recourse. On a personal note, my mother is still agonizing over what she did wrong to have not one but two gay kids.

Whether something is "harmful" per se is up to the person who is experiencing it. Their experience, their decision, their wording, their process, their right to speak to their experience without judgement or attempts to silence them.

Again, I didnt use the word. I spoke to the impact of life changes on us and those around us.

In spite of our best intentions and best preparations, we cant always mitigate everything and turn it into a positive experience. As you said, "There may be individuals who handle the journey of transitioning poorly. And in those cases harm may have been done. I acknowledge that."

Point taken and understood.

You also said in you latest post, "I am pretty sure it would not sit well with you if you came and saw a post dealing with the harm femist/feminism bring to themselves and their families and friends."

I actually have no qualms with this either. There is an ongoing war on women which is becoming very threatening to those of us who speak up. Thus, being a feminist, especially a radical feminist, is indeed, very harmful to oneself and to those around us.

If you look at the articles in the Misogyny thread about GamerGate, the dangers of women speaking out are very clear. Women addressing the misogyny, the sexism, the violence, the rapes in viedeo games are being threatened publicly. They are being threatened with violence to themselves and their families. They are having their names, addresses, and photos distributed almost like wanted posters. They are being forced from their homes and into hiding because of the threats. Their livelihoods are being threatened. The venues where they are to speak are being threatened with violence if they take the stage, forcing them to decide if they are going to risk the lives of those in the audience. Malcolm, this is over video games.

Sheila Jeffreys, the woman who was interviewed on this radio program is a radical feminist who speaks to the ways of the old where women organized giving their names, addresses, phone number, and holding meetings in their homes. This is no longer doable because of the threats of violence. Jeffreys cannot even have her name on the door to her office at the university because security decided it was not safe.

I know the harm that comes along with being an outspoken feminist. I know the threats come directly from males. I know the intent is to bully women into silence, so we will not rock the patriarchal boat.

What is kind of odd, to me, is the silence of men/transmen/ transgendered about these threats to women. Plato said, "Silence implies consent."

You also said, "But to see that the focus is on the harm we do to ourselves and bring to others does not sit well at all, especially on a site that includes and welcomes us."

I understand this too. The focus of the radio program was not on the “harm”. It was just one of the topics covered. The other topics were womens liberation, transgender politics, current laws pushing back womens rights and protections, a personal perspective from a detranstioning woman speaking to the harm (their words not mine) to her body and mental health, discussion of the term “transphobic” and examine how it is used to shut-down and silence feminist discourse and organizing. In addition, we will talk about the harms of transgendering to those who do it and to their family and friends.

Lesbians are also included and welcome here. You might want to visit the thread in the Red Zone entitled "Lesbian Love/Hate in our community". Just as you offered me the opportunity to substitute lesbian and feminist for trans, I invite you to substitute the word trans every time you see the word lesbian. Im curious as to how it will make you feel. Same coin, different sides.

Thank you for dialogue. My brain is appreciating being challenged and learning new stuff.

Have a good weekend.

[Allison W]

Over in the misogyny thread, I've posted a lot of bad news from the gaming world, particularly that whole "Gamergate" thing. So over here I'm going to post some good news, feminism-wise, from the gaming world. Tabletop gaming rather than video gaming in this case, but still.

First off, the Night Witches kickstarter. Description from the page itself:

"There was a night bomber regiment in World War Two composed entirely of women. Natural-born Soviet airwomen.

"These 200 women and girls, flying outdated biplanes from open fields near the front lines, attacked the invading German forces every night for 1,100 consecutive nights. When they ran out of bombs they dropped railroad ties.

"To each other they were sisters, with bonds forged in blood and terror. To the Red Army Air Force they were an infuriating feminist sideshow. To the Germans they were simply Nachthexen—Night Witches.

"Night Witches is a tabletop role-playing game about women at war. As a member of the 588th Night Bomber Regiment, you'll answer the call of your Motherland in her darkest hour. Can you do your duty and strike blow after blow against the Fascists? Can you overcome discrimination and outright sabotage and rise above your sexist comrades? Are there limits to patriotism - or endurance? Play Night Witches and find out!"

It's only open to pledges for a few more days, should you want to take a look and maybe kick in (I did, in no small part as a way to vote with my wallet for pro-woman games and against anti-woman voices in the tabletop scene like James Desborough), but it's already made several times the original goal, so it's doing quite well. It's by Bully Pulpit Games, whose previous works include such titles as Grey Ranks, which was about teenagers in the Warsaw Uprising, and which has received multiple awards and also the praise of the Warsaw Rising Museum.

Next up is an article from Go Make Me a Sandwich, which describes itself as "a (mostly) humorous look at how not to sell games to women." The article itself is about the portrayal of women and people of colour in the artwork of the 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook. It includes a lot of direct reactions to particular images in the article, so most of it doesn't "quote" well, but I'll give you a taste that communicates the tone of the article and the author's feelings about the artwork fairly well:

"WUT. Fully-clothed, actively posed, heroic looking women? Brown people? Heroic looking brown women? NO BOOBPLATE??? [swoon]"

[Allison W]

Two things at least semi-related to feminism and specifically feminism in gaming, again.

First off, given all that's been posted about misogyny in gaming (like Gamergate) and feminism in gaming, would anyone here be interested in me gathering up a list of video games with female protagonists, indie games by female devs, or otherwise pro-woman games? Titles like Depression Quest (a free nontraditional game by Zoe Quinn, a female dev recently targeted by Gamergate), or Gone Home (a nontraditional game about a young woman who's returned home from a year abroad in college to an empty home filled with signs of family drama, particularly centered around her younger sister and her sister's best friend). Relevant to this is that some major Steam sales are coming up shortly--the fall sale is supposedly in a few days, and the (big-ticket event) winter sale is generally around Christmas, so prime time to actually pick up some of these titles is coming up. So if there's an interest in this, I'd prefer to do it soon.

Second is something I didn't actually want to post here at all, particularly given recent topics in this thread, due to the controversial political content involved. But if I don't, there's a chance that someone else here might hear about it from entirely the wrong source first and bring a lot of misinformation here, which I definitely don't want. So the only reason I'm posting about this is because if you hear of it at all, it should probably be from me first. Forgive me.

It's about a controversial video game in development named Aerannis (kickstarter link, Steam Greenlight link) by Ektomarch, whose previous title was Subbania, a game about a closeted gay Nazi submarine captain and his crew fighting demons in the lightless depths of the ocean. So the developer is no stranger to playing Will It Blend with sensitive topics, but I'm still rather frightened to delve into this, as it is a god damn powderkeg of topics I'm afraid to have in close proximity all rubbing up against each other and ready to blow. If you just read the description without reading any of the posts the developer has made on what politics and intentions are going into the game, you could easily get the wrong idea about the developer's intent given all the scary words being thrown around--I actually did, at first, and was quite horrified, until the developer actually realised it was important to clarify the game's politics because god damn powderkeg. Gamergate also got the wrong idea at first; they apparently mistook its politics for being antifeminist, before the developer actually spoke up and said that if that's what they were expecting they would be disappointed (the dev also specified that third-wave intersectional feminist politics were a significant inspiration for the game's themes).

The kickstarter page explains what the game is about, though I don't know that it does it very well, in no small part because of the desperate need for the creator's politics to be disclosed when dealing with such sensitive topics. I actually did read the developer's statements, so I'll try to clarify what's actually going on here:

The developer clarified that "post-feminist dystopia" specifically refers to Plovdiv's leaders claiming that since only women are left to hold the pieces of the oppression pie, that feminism's goals have been achieved, when they haven't and inequality, marginalisation, unrest, and violence still plague the city. (Read: it is not a dystopia because feminism happened; it is a dystopia because it still needs feminism but the leaders claim it doesn't anymore.)

The dev also said that they weren't making a goal of stumping for or against any specific political philosophy, but I'm nonetheless smelling a bit of a knock at the libertarian-feminist crowd, as well as a certain allegory for the people who claim that patriarchy is no more and that feminism's work is done today. Similarly, the dev is going whole-hog on the wacky lizard-people-grade conspiracy-theory thing, but this, too, smacks of a metaphor (I'm still not a fan of crazy over-the-top metaphors) for a certain flexible, ever-adapting institution that runs our society that many people claim no longer exists (patriarchy), though I might think of different metaphors to use for it. In that light it sounds almost like "Yo dawg I took the real world and added a Boss Rush mode."

My concern there is that for all the dev loves the juxtaposition of ridiculousness and seriousness, and for all that gamers love any excuse for awesome boss fights like a giant crab monster that chases you up stairless chasms while verbally harassing you in your proverbial sore spots (I am guilty as charged), I'm still not sure I'd want to mix that kind of wackiness with holy shit serious political topics like these. Perhaps a little more pressing is that while I usually like antiheroes it almost seems like adding more tinder where the tinder index is already dangerously high, particularly given that the protagonist is a trans woman in an all-woman society. And, it's said that great writing makes the specific universal and the universal specific, but therein lies all the trouble: given the intense focus on themes both political and personal, the story writing and dialogue writing are both going to have to be excellent to pull this off. Better than the first-draft writing so far, and it definitely better be a damn sight better than the word salad you've been getting from me.

For those who are still freaked out about this (I wouldn't blame you; those were some pretty scary words and hot political tomatoes), the developer finally felt the need to make a rather lengthy post, containing some plot spoilers, about the nature of what is actually happening in this game and the nature of the violence in it and whom that violence can be done against (short version: not civilians).

Also, the dev isn't trans, despite some people making that assumption. I have no clue where they got that idea.

I just felt a need to get all of that out there before someone here heard about this from the wrong source. Now I'm gonna have a daiquiri and see if I can't calm down a bit. Let me know if you want me to put together a list of games for you folks to check out in the upcoming days and weeks.

[Femmadian]

Originally Posted by Allison W

< snip>

Second is something I didn't actually want to post here at all, particularly given recent topics in this thread, due to the controversial political content involved. But if I don't, there's a chance that someone else here might hear about it from entirely the wrong source first and bring a lot of misinformation here, which I definitely don't want. So the only reason I'm posting about this is because if you hear of it at all, it should probably be from me first. Forgive me.


< snip >


For those who are still freaked out about this (I wouldn't blame you; those were some pretty scary words and hot political tomatoes), the developer finally felt the need to make a rather lengthy post, containing some plot spoilers, about the nature of what is actually happening in this game and the nature of the violence in it and whom that violence can be done against (short version: not civilians).

< snip >

I just felt a need to get all of that out there before someone here heard about this from the wrong source.

I've seen this floating around online for the past few days. While the information available about the game is still somewhat limited, there are a few things one could touch on with this...

• Yes, it's true the game developer is not a trans woman. Only the game's protagonist is. The game developer is a man and is writing a game about a fascist woman-only dystopian society.
• The society is described by the developer ("dev") as "post-feminist."
• The protagonist, a hired assassin, uses female bodies as human shields:
  
  Link
  
  Link
  
• There's this gif from the game found on the dev's Tumblr:
  
  with the caption: "she doesn’t like having her butt slapped"
  Link
  
  ---> Note: another game developer [username: sokuzah] then jokingly comments on the original developer's page: "she should stop dressing so provocatively then"; zero response or reaction from the game developer or other supporters of the game
• And then there's this:
  
  Link
  - are these meant to be civilians... the overweight, ugly, and perpetually dour feminists?
• Oh, wait, yep, our thin, perky protagonist is going to use the large, mohawk-sporting, cigarette-holding lady in blue as a human shield now:
  
  Link
• And then there's this lovely gif from the game:
  
  Link
  

In case you didn't catch it at the end, the vaguely dive bar-looking grey building in this feminist dystopia is called Dworkin's. Here's a still for those who may have missed it:



From the Kickstarter page:
"While carrying out some routine assassinations, Ceyda becomes aware of something: these assassinations are anything but routine. All of these missions involve an organized revolt against the government and foundations of society. As she becomes aware of the force behind it, an ancient organization of otherworldly beings who've guided humanity's advances (and downfalls) since the dawn of time, there's one question lingering in the back of her mind: in a society where being a woman is a prerequisite for being human, does someone who's often not considered a 'whole woman' have any duty to save those who hate her? And would they even believe her if she told them?"

Also from the same source under "Gameplay" offerings:

MEAT SHIELDS: Sometimes running in guns ablaze isn't a good idea. In these situations you can grab civilians or unaware enemies and use them as a human shield. Note that this doesn't work on enemies that lack human empathy! Hostages are also beneficial for gaining access to restricted areas. Just find the right person and make them open the door.

Charming.

The game pits the protagonist against cis/AFAB/bio women and asks "in a society where being a woman is a prerequisite for being human, does someone who's often not considered a 'whole woman' have any duty to save those who hate her?"

Notice, no distinction or implication that any of the women in this "post-feminist" society acknowledge her humanity. Nope, apparently the women in this society are all trans-hating bigots (by virtue of their being born female? By living in a woman-only society?) and it follows that their own humanity is perhaps not a thing worth saving... or is at least a concept needing some armchair philosophizing first.

Spoiler: this dystopian feminist society is actually controlled by "demons," a sort of "illuminati" who have controlled "every major society and empire", even, according to the developer's page, Nazis. I'm assuming the developer is referring specifically to Nazi Germany circa roughly WWII but he never quite makes that clear...

"The fate of Plovdiv [the fictional society the game is set in] hangs in the balance as Ceyda [the protagonist] navigates the layers of a conspiracy: Every major society and empire–from the Akkadians to the Shang, from the Romans to the Nazis–has been guided by one immortal force. Plovdiv is now another link in the chain. But how?"

Alrighty then...

I think people can have deep, valid objections to and concerns about this game and they should not be dismissively glossed over as illegitimate or misplaced fears as a result of reading some "scary words" or getting their information from what someone else proclaims to be the "wrong source." I have some pretty serious reservations about what this game purports to be and represent and it has nothing to do with my delicate sensibilities being exposed to scary words or being too stupid or unaware to be able to discern the difference between the credible commentary and the inflammatory (and to be able to decide for myself which is which).

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by Femmadian

I've seen this floating around online for the past few days. While the information available about the game is still somewhat limited, there are a few things one could touch on with this...

• Yes, it's true the game developer is not a trans woman. Only the game's protagonist is. The game developer is a man and is writing a game about a fascist woman-only dystopian society.
• The society is described by the developer ("dev") as "post-feminist."

• I suspect you did not read my post. The developer actually weighed in on this: it is "post-feminist" in the sense that the leadership claims that feminist ideals are no longer necessary, when they still are. Take it from the developer:
  
  "I’m using “post-feminist” to mean that the government within this universe claims that feminism’s end goals have been attained and everybody is equal and happy and so there’s no more need for feminism. That is, of course, not true..." (emphasis mine)
  
  Like I said. If you've ever heard the saying "I'll be post-feminist in the post-patriarchy," that is exactly what is being referred to here: the government claims feminism's goals have been reached when they have not, and that is straight from the developer.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Femmadian

  The protagonist, a hired assassin, uses female bodies as human shields:
  
  Link
  
  Link

  This is one of the parts I dislike, but "human shields" is an extremely common mechanic. I've seen it in several games, including non-stealth games--it's a staple of the genre.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Femmadian

  There's this gif from the game found on the dev's Tumblr:
  
  with the caption: "she doesn’t like having her butt slapped"
  Link
  

  ---> Note: another game developer [username: sokuzah] then jokingly comments on the original developer's page: "she should stop dressing so provocatively then"; zero response or reaction from the game developer or other supporters of the game

  Which was inappropriate of that commentator, but I'm actually not seeing where she's dressed provocatively. I also never saw the comment to begin with, because I didn't go digging through that post's mentions; I don't imagine many people did. It's fairly probable that the developer himself did not see the comment. Would you feel better if I asked the developer to publicly inform sokuzah that this is inappropriate? I don't know him, but there are ways to get ahold of people over Kickstarter or Tumblr.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Femmadian

  And then there's this:
  
  Link
  - are these meant to be civilians... the overweight, ugly, and perpetually dour feminists?

  Uh, yes, there are fat women in the game, just like there are thin and ordinary-weight women.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Femmadian

  Oh, wait, yep, our thin, perky protagonist is going to use the large, mohawk-sporting, cigarette-holding lady in blue as a human shield now:
  
  Link

  That's the developer testing the mechanics in the downtown area, where there are no enemies around.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Femmadian

  And then there's this lovely gif from the game:
  
  Link

Originally Posted by Femmadian

In case you didn't catch it at the end, the vaguely dive bar-looking grey building in this feminist dystopia is called Dworkin's. Here's a still for those who may have missed it:

I'm actually not seeing how just naming a bar after a feminist figure is offensive. Was Dworkin an anti-alcohol activist? If so, I could let the developer know; the game is still in development, so he might edit it.

Originally Posted by Femmadian

From the Kickstarter page:
"While carrying out some routine assassinations, Ceyda becomes aware of something: these assassinations are anything but routine. All of these missions involve an organized revolt against the government and foundations of society. As she becomes aware of the force behind it, an ancient organization of otherworldly beings who've guided humanity's advances (and downfalls) since the dawn of time, there's one question lingering in the back of her mind: in a society where being a woman is a prerequisite for being human, does someone who's often not considered a 'whole woman' have any duty to save those who hate her? And would they even believe her if she told them?"

Also from the same source under "Gameplay" offerings:

MEAT SHIELDS: Sometimes running in guns ablaze isn't a good idea. In these situations you can grab civilians or unaware enemies and use them as a human shield. Note that this doesn't work on enemies that lack human empathy! Hostages are also beneficial for gaining access to restricted areas. Just find the right person and make them open the door.

Charming.

Not especially charming, no, but it is a staple of the genre and not unique to this game in any way. Probably the first game I recall playing where human shields are a mechanic is Saints Row 2, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't even the first game to do it--and unlike games like Saints Row 2, you can't kill the civilians afterwards in this one. I myself would have used a different genre for something so politically sensitive.

Originally Posted by Femmadian

The game pits the protagonist against cis/AFAB/bio women and asks "in a society where being a woman is a prerequisite for being human, does someone who's often not considered a 'whole woman' have any duty to save those who hate her?"

Notice, no distinction or implication that any of the women in this "post-feminist" society acknowledge her humanity. Nope, apparently the women in this society are all trans-hating bigots (by virtue of their being born female? By living in a woman-only society?) and it follows that their own humanity is perhaps not a thing worth saving... or is at least a concept needing some armchair philosophizing first.

I'm going to quote the developer directly. You can read for yourself here.

(begin quote)

"One note I’d like to make: you can’t kill civilians in the game. You can only kill robots, monsters, and other assassins/people who’ve killed. Some civilians are nice, some are mean; you can’t kill any of them, no matter how they treat you. Some people have said “she’s angry and killing people who don’t see her as a real woman!” That literally never happens in the game."

"Another note: some people are claiming it’s a game about a trans woman “getting revenge and killing (their words) ‘real’ women.’” No. You’re taking down the government that’s oppressing and killing its own people of any and all types."

[ . . . ]

"The game is not about portraying cis women as enemies. It’s about a trans woman who realizes that both cis and trans women are being manipulated and controlled by gooey monsters who can change form at will and have been controlling every society since the dawn of time..."

(end quote)

So, uh, it's a game about a government conspiracy vs. the people, with a protagonist who, while there are people who treat her as human, is still a second-class citizen in her society and has internal conflicts about defending a society where she's a second-class citizen along the way to making the choice to defend that society, which is about the most normal thing to feel ever. I am also pretty sure the "second-class citizen defending their society while having internal conflicts about defending a society in which they are a second-class citizen" is kind of an established trope and the only thing new here is the exact category to which it is being applied.

Originally Posted by Femmadian

Spoiler: this dystopian feminist society is actually controlled by "demons," a sort of "illuminati" who have controlled "every major society and empire", even, according to the developer's page, Nazis. I'm assuming the developer is referring specifically to Nazi Germany circa roughly WWII but he never quite makes that clear...

Given the developer's previous game was about a closeted gay Nazi submarine captain and his crew fighting demons in the lightless depths of the ocean, I'm going to guess it's referring to Nazi Germany. That's the only Nazi society we've had: neo-Nazis exist, but a "society" they are not.

Originally Posted by Femmadian

"The fate of Plovdiv [the fictional society the game is set in] hangs in the balance as Ceyda [the protagonist] navigates the layers of a conspiracy: Every major society and empire–from the Akkadians to the Shang, from the Romans to the Nazis–has been guided by one immortal force. Plovdiv is now another link in the chain. But how?"

Alrighty then...

I think people can have deep, valid objections to and concerns about this game and they should not be dismissively glossed over as illegitimate or misplaced fears as a result of reading some "scary words" or getting their information from what someone else proclaims to be the "wrong source." I have some pretty serious reservations about what this game purports to be and represent and it has nothing to do with my delicate sensibilities being exposed to scary words or being too stupid or unaware to be able to discern the difference between the credible commentary and the inflammatory (and to be able to decide for myself which is which).

You can, but I do nonetheless expect you to actually investigate the material before passing judgment. My initial reaction was very similar to yours until the developer actually posted about the concerns others were raising about the game (things that should have been clarified from the start, honestly; the developer did not handle the topics as delicately as he should have, and that is on him) and I read them, rather than sticking to previous assumptions based upon limited information.

Can I please get you to read what I am saying? I'm not telling you to have no problems with it--I still do, like the decision to use one of the more disturbingly violent genres in this kind of proximity to such sensitive political issues, as well as the fact that the developer seemed to be caught unaware by just how politically sensitive this entire thing is when he ought to have been prepared for that from the start--but will you read what I am saying?

(Also, thank you for not threatening to come to my house to do a murder over this discussion. Basic civility is in short supply on the Internet these days.)

[Femmadian]

Allison, what makes you think I haven't read your post or "investigated" the issue? Because I don't agree with you?

I actually linked to the same developer explanation in my post that you are now telling me to read. For the record, I've read all five pages on his Tumblr, his Kickstarter, the site for his game development portfolio and presskit, Ektomarch, this interview with Blue Bird Plays, and have researched on my own his relatively short history as a game developer to familiarize myself with his work (such as his work on Subbania). The implication that the only reason I (or anyone) could possibly disagree with you is either through intellectual laziness or ignorance is incredibly insulting and patronizing.

I am well aware of how he he said he was using the term "post-feminist" as it appears we've read the same page. I have a different take on it. That doesn't mean I did not understand it or that I haven't read it.

I don't think the developer is a feminist from what I've read in interviews and on his pages and I don't think that the game captures any of the nuances of the subject matters he is attempting to tackle.

I've actually been mulling the matter over for a few days now and (not that it should matter) the response to your post was composed over the span of roughly two hours wherein I read and re-read your post several times. I would ask that you not insinuate knowledge about my level of comprehension or activity that you know nothing about.

I am well aware that the developer purports that the game is to be one dealing with government conspiracy vs the people but I have serious concerns with its execution and whether that message is evident in the game without the benefit of the developer having to explain himself ad nauseam.

I am also quite aware of the use of "meat shields" in the gaming industry. I still find them distasteful and given the highly sensitive nature of this specific game, I think it's a poor choice.

I find it disingenuous that you seem to not want to comment on the history of Andrea Dworkin being demonized by anti-feminists and hailed as some sort of "angry," catch-all mouthpiece for the entire movement by those who look to discredit it. I don't know if the developer is intending for that building to be a bar, a warehouse, a store, whatever, and I don't think it really matters. The point is that I find the inclusion of the name as background noise in this game to be, given the context, highly suspect and it raises feminist red flags for me.

Similarly, you can't just explain away overweight characters as simply being neutrally overweight or "fat" without talking about the context of stereotypes and the shaming of feminists as fat, ugly, and/or angry, which it is implied that these characters are. Do I think it's a coincidence that a game which depicts a woman-only post-feminist dystopia has its citizens alternately being portrayed as overweight or angry women? Absolutely not. You're supposed to sympathize with the protagonist who is thin and attractive (by game animation standards) and the civilians and/or fascist feminists are fat and ugly and shout things at the protagonist such as "get outta my face" as she walks by. It's about one step away from putting the good guys (gal) in a white hat and the bad ones in black hats and not subtle at all.

By the way, what exactly is a "normal-sized" woman? Are fat women and thin women by definition considered abnormal? Sounds like body shaming to me.

Moving on to the comment about slapping a female character's posterior:

Originally Posted by Allison W

Which was inappropriate of that commentator, but I'm actually not seeing where she's dressed provocatively. I also never saw the comment to begin with, because I didn't go digging through that post's mentions; I don't imagine many people did. It's fairly probable that the developer himself did not see the comment. Would you feel better if I asked the developer to publicly inform sokuzah that this is inappropriate? I don't know him, but there are ways to get ahold of people over Kickstarter or Tumblr.

So, if the developer had put her skirt/lab coat a few pixelated inches higher, that comment would have been okay to you...? Saying that you don't see her as dressing provocatively is completely missing the point. And I didn't go "digging" through the post to find something to be offended about. It's fairly close to the top of the post's notes and the developer would have been notified on Tumblr that someone commented on it. It's both indicative of and a larger part of an overall air of subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) feminist- and woman-shaming that I see with this game. Do you think a feminist would create the option or even the gif from one of their games with the main character non-consensually slapping the ass of a woman (which is assault...) with the simple caption "she doesn't like having her butt slapped"?

Would I "feel better" if you contacted the gamer on my behalf...? No. I'd "feel better" if the developer actually showed any feminist behaviour without first having to be prompted or called out on it. This isn't about someone's delicate little feelings being hurt (and it's really minimizing and condescending to suggest that my objections on that point amount to little more). It's about thinking critically about a subject which proclaims to be feminist and around which there is a fair amount of debate and conflicting opinion.

People are allowed to disagree with us and we don't get to decide for other people what is and isn't a significant enough level of research into a topic before they get to form an opinion about it and have it be one which we'll accept as valid and worthy of respect. I have to say that your post came off as incredibly patronizing, disrespectful, and insulting and assumes a lot about what I've personally read or think about this topic.

Furthermore, the idea that other members should be given news about this game by you first... why? Why do you place yourself as having intellectual or explanatory authority over anyone else? And what are "wrong sources" and who are you to decide for someone else what those might be?

Frankly, I'm not sure why you felt the need to edit your post to add that little parenthetical aside about thanking me for not threatening bodily harm to you...? I have never done anything of the sort to anyone and I don't know why you felt the need to include it. It feels unnecessary and gross and honestly, it goes a way towards painting those who disagree with you on this issue as raging, irrational "harpies" who cannot have a logical debate. That sounds pretty sexist to me and I'm not okay with being praised (even backhandedly) by virtue of insulting other women in the process. That's not something I ever agreed to.

Ultimately, I hope that people are able to make up their own minds about this and really, anything else which may be in this thread. We are not and do not have to be of a hive mind here and we are allowed to form our own opinions without the sanction of someone else. The diversity of thought and expression is one of the incredibly positive aspects of this community and one of the main reasons I continue to come here. I think that if that is to continue (and there's no reason to think it won't) then there is a need for respect for the difference in opinions as well as the people holding them by all members and for all members, even if you don't understand or particularly care for either it or them.

[Kobi]

I am not a gamer but I, too, have seen the concerns raised about this "game" for several weeks.

From the developer:

In 2XXX, women from around the world migrated to central Bulgaria to escape centuries of oppression. In an attempt to halt its rapid decline, Plovdiv was restructured as a bastion of feminist ideals. Twelve years later, Plovdiv became the last remaining city on Earth. The city flourished into a haven for women and its pride became its stability, proof of the success of its founding females' principles.

And yet, society became apathetic to its fellow citizens' discontent.

Government and private individuals soon hired assassins to resolve their “problems”, and this underground system became the replacement for due process. It was a necessary reality in a system that came to shut out the concerns of its women. It was well accepted that the state's alleged political ideals were sufficient for guaranteeing absolute peace and security. The only solution was to resort to "alternative methods", which increasingly became common practice in a society who praised a good image as being next to godliness.

Our heroine is Ceyda Farhi, a twenty-something Bulgarian Turk, trans woman, and assassin. Her willingness to put a job ahead of her own life gives her steady employment. While the bulk of her jobs entail grudges or handling problematic no-names, she starts to notice traces of interconnectedness in each of her jobs, having far grander repercussions than she could've ever imagined. The fate of Plovdiv hangs in the balance as Ceyda navigates the layers of a conspiracy: Every major society and empire–from the Akkadians to the Shang, from the Romans to the Nazis–has been guided by one immortal force. Plovdiv is now another link in the chain. But how?

While fearing the rapid decline of her mental state and feeling the world of unbelievable conspiracies spiraling around her, she knows that she must tell the world the truth before it's too late for her and womankind. Two problems stand between her and alerting everyone of the truth: who could ever believe her? And in a society where being a woman is being human, does Ceyda--a trans woman who's often not regarded as being a "whole" woman--have any responsibility to save those who look down on her?

Aerannis hopes to give players an insight into the struggles of gender identity and empowerment in an oppressive world without in any way sacrificing the intensity of 2D action games.



Even tho I have been unable to track down the sex of the developer(s), what I see in their "explanation" is a lot of man speak i.e. believe our intent as opposed to what we actually developed.

I also see a gross misunderstanding of what feminism is, thus the portrayal of a feminist society gone bad looks just like the patriarchy i.e. same power dynamics, same oppression, same violence, same isms.

And, the developers stated goal is about the struggle for gender identity and empowerment....which apparently can only be achieved thru violence.

To me, this is just the same crap, different game.

[Kobi]

Gina Marie Raimondo (born May 17, 1971) is an American politician, businesswoman, and venture capitalist, and the Governor-elect of the State of Rhode Island. Raimondo, a member of the Democratic Party, will become the first woman to serve as Governor of Rhode Island. [1]

She has served as the General Treasurer for the State of Rhode Island since 2011. She is the second Rhode Island woman to serve as Treasurer. She was selected as the Democratic Party candidate for Rhode Island Governor in the 2014 election. Raimondo won the election with 40% of the vote on November 4, 2014.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Raimondo