It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Apocalipstic]

It seem to be a Catch 22.

Either way, the workers will be the ones who pay.

Not that idiot Governor.

*rant*

[BornBronson]

Speaking of idiots,who are these entertainers coming on CNN,HLN fueling the fires between the races.Seems to me there are two issues being fought here.One is a law passing to protect an American border and the other about protecting 'brown' people.That law in Arizona will benefit both Americans and illegals,regardless if you come over from Russia,China,or Mexico.If you have your "green card",that means you have certain rights like an American.Without them,you're pretty much left to the wolves,and believe me,we have plenty of them just waiting to take advantage of people without their papers in this country.There's nothing more evil to me then pitting Americans against each other,specially for political gain..that's just plain evil y'all.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

Speaking of idiots,who are these entertainers coming on CNN,HLN fueling the fires between the races.Seems to me there are two issues being fought here.One is a law passing to protect an American border and the other about protecting 'brown' people.That law in Arizona will benefit both Americans and illegals,regardless if you come over from Russia,China,or Mexico.If you have your "green card",that means you have certain rights like an American.Without them,you're pretty much left to the wolves,and believe me,we have plenty of them just waiting to take advantage of people without their papers in this country.There's nothing more evil to me then pitting Americans against each other,specially for political gain..that's just plain evil y'all.

Can you explain to me, because perhaps I'm dense, how this law will protect brown people? It seems to me that this law targets brown people. Let me try to explain why:

The law, as written, says that police officers can (and are required to) stop anyone they have a 'reasonable suspicion' is in the country illegally. Please note that this is *different* than saying that if in the course of, say, a routine traffic the officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person might be in the country illegally (driver's license seems fake, something along those lines). It is saying 'if you see someone who *looks like* they are here illegally'.

The reason I bring this up, Born, is because--well, let me put it to you like this. I am more or less cinnamon-colored and have shoulder-length dreadlocks. My wife is, pale, red-haired, hazel-eyed. When this law was passed and we were discussing it, I asked her (because I knew that at some point I'd need the information) how many times she had been asked if she was from Ireland or Scotland. She said no one had ever asked her that. She'd been asked if she was of Irish descent but not if she was from Ireland (those ARE different questions). Now, I can't count the number of times people have asked me if I was from Jamaica or, more generically, where I am from. Now, if I had an accent, perhaps that would be understandable but any accent I have is a West Coast accent (I think I have that midwestern newscaster accent, but that's a different story). So what's the difference? While it's empirically true that 'American' isn't a race, most people treat 'American' as a synonym for 'white' on a day-to-day, ad hoc basis. So even though my wife could just as easily be from Ireland, looking like she does, and I could, perhaps, be from Jamaica looking like I do, she is never asked if she is from a foreign country while I am. The difference? She has white skin and I have brown skin. That's it.

So let's return to this law: how is it that this is NOT an open invitation to racial profiling and how is it that this law HELPS brown people, precisely?

[apretty]

more local news, this is the guy (russell pearce, R-Mesa) who actually drafted the bill and he wants the police to ask about your citizenship on your own property. (i thought you'd need a search warrant to be on someone's property, but guess not)

http://www.kpho.com/video/23315330/index.html

[apretty]

additionally, the guy who drafted this bill (and wants to cease funding for any school offering chicano studies), russell pearce, has ties to well-known NEO-NAZIS.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiw...slator-russell

[Apocalipstic]

While I agree that people who want to emmigrate to the USA are often victimized by the very people they trust to bring them here, I do not agree that they should be kept out.

No one travels to the US in a shipping container from SE Asia beacsue they have a good life at home. No one leaves their home and family in Honduras to WALK to the US becasue they just feel like it.

The USA was set up by immigrants and has always been horrible to it's most recent immigrans.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

While I agree that people who want to emmigrate to the USA are often victimized by the very people they trust to bring them here, I do not agree that they should be kept out.

No one travels to the US in a shipping container from SE Asia beacsue they have a good life at home. No one leaves their home and family in Honduras to WALK to the US becasue they just feel like it.

The USA was set up by immigrants and has always been horrible to it's most recent immigrans.

Since you say this, I want to clarify a comment I made earlier. While, quite honestly, I think that the United States should seriously consider a 20 year ban on all immigration except for political asylum my *reasons* for it should be stated explicitly.

I believe that no small amount of this hysteria is about race. I am fairly convinced--although I might be wrong--that if it were Seamus and Mary from Gloucester coming over instead of Juan and Maria, there wouldn't be nearly as much noise even if the former were coming in the same numbers. Because of that and because of America's history, I think that we should be willing to bend over backwards to demonstrate that it's *not* about race. Now, that's not fair--it's absolutely true but as my grandmother used to say, there's much in life that is neither right, pretty or fair.

It's like being non-white and a woman in my field. My buddy Ogre (not his real name, obviously) gets loud or bangs his hand against his desk because an end-user isn't listening to him, he's just a big emphatic guy with a booming voice. If I do the same thing, I'm an angry black woman. If a man raises his voice, he's passionate. If a woman raises her voice, she's shrill. So in corporate America, as a black woman, I have learned to bend over backward to comport myself in such a way that only someone who *wants* to see me as "angry black woman" can see me that way. It's not fair but it beats the hell out of being passed over for promotion or being first to be laid off.

America has a regrettable history on race and, as such, we as a nation have to bend over backward. So by banning ALL immigration for 20 years, it takes race out of the question. I would think that those who are most exercised about what they see as a tide of immigrants coming over the border would leap at the opportunity to ban all immigration and NOT be called out for racism. Strangely, though, in the last 15 years of proposing this kind of thing to people on the other side of the immigration issue to me, I've had maybe one or two bites. That's not necessarily indication of racism but it does cause one to question why.
Cheers
Aj