Making Amends...Question/Input request

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Orema

I hold grudges, too, and something similar happend to me, though she wasnt in a "program"

I would respond quickly and honestly so that I could move on.

I'd say I appreciate your apology and am happy you're in a program to help you work out some things, but I'm unable to forgive you.

Wishing you success,
Sign off.

If she is sincere, she will understand and not write back.

Clarity is fabulous too!

[TruTexan]

IMO: I'd just not answer that email one way or another. Once someone burns that bridge with me, it's burnt and I don't respond to nothing they say.
However, you aren't me and I'm not you, so it's all up to you in how you choose to deal with this. I don't sugar coat nothing for anyone. I'm capable of forgiving but not forgetting and that is something that will stay with me forever when you burn a bridge with me.

[Ginger]

I don't think it's about the recipient of the apology; their response doesn't really matter.

I think it's about the act of making amends.



I could be wrong.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Ginger

I don't think it's about the recipient of the apology; their response doesn't really matter.

That's pretty much what I said as well. In the end, it's them having to forgive themselves and move on either with the relationships or without.
It's not really about my answer.

[Cin]

Step Eight: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Step Nine: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

For example if I stole or borrowed money from you to get high and never payed you back, I can apologize for doing that, but that's an apology not an amends. If I want to make amends I will give you back the money. That is an amends.

You never make an amends to someone if doing so would harm them or others. You don't go and tell your spouse or your partner that you cheated on them when you were high or drunk or that you had an affair with the neighbor. That just relieves you of your guilt. You need to carry that guilt and don't do anything like that again, that is your amends. You cannot hurt others with your amends.

Direct amends may not be possible for a variety of reasons. An amend has to do with restoring justice as much as possible. The idea is to "restore in a direct way that which we have broken or damaged--or to make restoration in a symbolic way if we can't do it directly."

If you do steps 8 and 9 the way it was meant this is the promise "If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace." This is the point of doing your eighth and ninth step. If you are making amends expecting forgiveness then you are doing it for the wrong reason. You have missed something vital. Having others forgive us is not the goal. Not at all. It's not even necessary that the amends be acknowledged, only that it is made. And it should only be made after we have thought long and hard about the possible consequences and talked it over with someone objective, likely our sponsor so we can be clear on our motive for making the amends.

An amends from someone in the Program is to you, but it is not about you at all. When you make an amends you need to be open to any response you get from people you've injured. It's not about manipulating them into forgiving you. And the person given the amends has a right to refuse to participate. Not responding is a perfectly acceptable choice. There is nothing required of you. There is no amends etiquette for the person who is being given an amends.

That said everyone has to do what is comfortable for them. Be true to yourself.

[Zimmeh]

Buenas Noche Pajama,

I have a best friend that I've known for nearly 28 years. Her and I were roommates back from 2010-2011. After going through a nervous breakdown, I myself tried to understand what caused this. I realized that I had to forgive so many people from my past before I allowed myself to heal. When I was finally finding my happiness, she would continue to bring up the skeletons from our past. I kept telling her that I didn't want to think about the past and wanted to view my future. When I decided to move back to Orlando, she used every secret and painful memory against me. Five years later, I'm still not to happy with how she handled my decision to continue my growth. I've since all but forgiven her.

I would also sit down, write this person a letter and get out your frustrations. Then in a few days reread that letter and see how you feel. I'm sending you a huge hug and hope you find your peace with this.

Zimmeh

[firegal]

Harder [takes more energy] to hold a grudge than to let it go.

human beings make mistakes...sometimes hurtfull ones.

what I am today isn't even close to what I was 20 years ago....thank god my good friends look at me in TODAY eyes and not yesteryears!

all u can do is the best u can today... what ever your answer/truth is!

[Medusa]

Ohhhhhhhh sheeeeeesh! This is a complex one (but thank Goddess for a "meaty" thread!)

Yanno, I had an amends-type of situation happen a couple of years ago that left me with red-ass (pissy!). So, I had a friend who did some really shitty stuff like breaking confidences, making hateful comments, and just being a giant asshole. but the main issue was a really crappy ability to disrespect my boundaries. I bid them a farewell and let them know directly that I didn't want to be friends with them anymore because of their behavior (toxic, mean-spirited, etc.)

They came back about a year later and sent me an amends email telling me they were working their program and wanted to let me know they were sorry for x, y, z and yadda yadda. I'll be honest, it felt like a violation of my boundaries all over again and this was probably flamed by the wording of the amends email where I was left feeling "blamed" for their behavior (verbiage like "I did this because I felt like you weren't giving me enough attention")

Now, with this said I have also received a very lovely and sincere amends from someone that did not feel invasive but the person was still someone I did not want to resume a relationship with.

In both cases I asked myself what would be the thing I could do that would leave my energy as clean as possible. Not necessarily to let the other person "off the hook" or even give them any space with me, but just a way to pinball off of one another with no damage to each other.

My response to both of them, "Thank you. I wish you well."

I was able to get to that place because I believed both of those folks to be struggling with something out of their control. And you know what, I don't even need to know that people are struggling to be able to say, "Best wishes to you" but if I feel it, I say it.

Acknowledging them does not open the door to them to re-enter your life. But if you think they might see it that way, I could definitely understand why no response at all would be warranted.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Miss Tick, I seem to have lost my answer... But in a nutshell, "yes. Indeed. Thank you for stating that."

[GeorgiaMa'am]

I agree that a brief "thank you, best wishes" response is probably best. Although you could take the opportunity to express your honest feelings that you are not ready to forgive, and that you respect the program, etc., anything of that nature may only invite re-involvement. I wouldn't want to encourage this person to reply with anything like more apologies, or blame, or explanations, or rehashing of past issues; so I wouldn't "add any fuel to the fire" by giving them something to react to.

Good luck. I wish for you a lack of drama.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Femnadian, I enjoyed that post. I personally do not want amends of any sort from those I have excused myself from. I always leave the door ajar for people to come back unless I have been more than pateint and tolerant (see previous reference to my past codependancy behaviours). That has left me vulnerable to all kinds of binge drinkers, alcoholics, drug addicts, narcissists and all sorts. Because I didn't protect and care for myself first. I always put thoughts about others peoples feelings before my own.

But surely being kind and considering someone else's possible hurt feelings is the right thing to do. Momma always raised me to be a polite girl first, above all else.

Which of course, I inherited a lot of codependancy behaviour from.

I personally do not think knowing your own boundaries, taking care of yourself and doing what's best for you *first* is holding a grudge. Holding a grudge means you are still angry, you want some kind of payment even if it's just that the other person suffers quietly in a mud puddle after being shot onto an asteroid and never to return.

I don't hold grudges. I'm not that kind of person. Occasionally I will feel that way for a while, then I will do my own work, get over myself eventually and move on. However, I have given people in my life far too many third and fourth and fifth chances. If it's one of those people who have given me years of damage, in which it has taken me *years* of work to move on from, or I have put up with narcissistic personality collateral damage... No. They do not get a letter from me. Granted I have only *once* in my whole life had someone ask me for forgiveness and tried to make amends for the damages he caused.

But you can't make amends for the kind of damage that he caused. It just isn't possible. Decades of work was needed on my part to get past many things and other things I just have had to learn to live with, and around, as they are a part of me now. There is no amends. I don't wish him harm. I don't want him to suffer. I hope he is cared for. I know he is loved and for that I am glad. But there is no letter I would answer and no amends to be made. I do not want any form of payment there for I do not believe I hold a grudge and I forgive him as much as is humanly possible, considering what was done to me. I do not want anything at all from him but for him to leave me alone. Period. No contact.

That he may have hurt feelings over that? I'm afraid that is just part of what he will have to work through on his own journey. It is not my concern.

That is why I think if you do answer and say good luck, be extremely clear that you do not wish for them to be in your life at this point. Which will probably hurt. But you need to aknowledge them for your own sense of "what's not hinky" (lol) then do so. Just be very clear you do not want them in your life. If you don't explicitly say that, "I hope you do well and best of luck" doesn't actually say if you want to speak to them or not. Trying to send "polite, unspoken messages to avoid hurt" is what gets a lot of us in trouble (read: me and my past of not being explicit and afraid of being rude and hurtful).

So be blunt. Be clear. And do not leave room for misinterpretation that you will have to deal with later because you were "polite".

IMO.

[Andrea]

Everyone is different and only you can decide what you can live with. That said, I agree with the majority of the posters: Thank you for writing/apology. Best wishes for your recovery.

That way you acknowledge their effort and you haven't offered anything you don't really feel (assuming you do wish the best for them...).

It isn't an easy decision and best sat on for a bit before making it.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I'm not sure if this makes me "hinky" or not, but once someone has done something so awful that my friendship is withdrawn, i wouldn't even open the email, let alone respond.

I hope whatever you do, you feel at peace with your choice

[pumpndude]

I didn't even know what amends was years ago...I learned all about amends later in life when I became an addict in recovery.....
I have 20 years now clean & sober.....So if I wronged someone I make an amends pretty much right away.....

As for years ago I can make amends three ways.

1. I can pray for them and apologize to my higher power...
2. write a letter to them and tell them I'm sorry for my part of whatever the situation is and then burn it....
3. do something positve, like volunteer and do something good in my community to make an amends....

That is what works for me....


I really don't dwell on the past and haven't in a really long time....
I use my energy for good....

take care

That what works for me..

[FireSignFemme]

I don’t like it when 12 Steppers I haven’t spoken to in years call me up to ask for my forgiveness in order to try and assuage their feelings of guilt and shame. In my opinion if they still feel that strongly, badly about it years later then they should share it with a sponsor, lay it at the feet of their therapist(s) and/or take it to the Lord in prayer. I don’t really care what baggage they’re lugging around or where they choose to dump it so long as whenever they do decide to unload, it isn’t on me.

[deeds]

I have met good people from going to AA, I was even able to land a job or two during my time there.(Court ordered)
AA is not for everyone. I do think the Lord I never killed anyone by drinking and driving.. I'm a cured alcoholic.and a little herb was a gift from him.
If I were in AA all these years, I would still be drinking at this step.. Like victimizing the victim all over again..Let it go I say and never do it again.

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by deeds

I have met good people from going to AA, I was even able to land a job or two during my time there.(Court ordered)
AA is not for everyone. I do think the Lord I never killed anyone by drinking and driving.. I'm a cured alcoholic.and a little herb was a gift from him.
If I were in AA all these years, I would still be drinking at this step.. Like victimizing the victim all over again..Let it go I say and never do it again.

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!

[deeds]

Originally Posted by cathexis

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!

Good for you''
my higher power performed a miracle on me when he took my yearning for for alcohol away,And he gave me herbs as I said to help me..Also, he led me to check into a rehab hospital (the finest in Cali imo.)MPI was the name..

The one fundamental difference they made in my relationship with alcohol that changed my direction is that..You don't have problems because you drink alcohol but you abuse alcohol because you have problems..

I can't take any credit for a cure, but I would give it away freely if I could.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by cathexis

Friend, if you have the cure for alcoholism PLEASE share with the rest of us!

You could make a billion in a flash!

The rest of us must suffer one day at a time.

Sober 6 years by the grace of my HP!!!

At 19 my wife was an alcoholic and used drugs every day.

Her friends mother did a religious intervention, and my Kasey was struck sober! She can have a drink or two with dinner, in fact she can get drunk and have no urge to drink again at all.

Stranger things than I can even understand happen every day.