About Butches Q & A

[imperfect_cupcake]

And you can also answer "actually Prefer to think of myself as a cross between a shrub and trout, but you can call me Nevil." If you a) don't think it's any of their business or b) don't want to answer a private question like that in a public space.

[ProfPacker]

I find this thread really relevant to my journey. I have been on bfp for about 1.5 years and I have gone from Femmepacker to Profpacker, indicating my change in the fluidity of my identity. I will say quite honestly that although I never consider myself femme anymore and do ID as butch... where on the butch spectrum I lie depends on the day. I feel more male in my id but I do not consider myself male. I can respond to hy and she. I feel that part of my journey is presenting my emerging self to my children. I have recently become involved with a femme who is supportive of my journey. I will say that I feel as if I almost live two lives at this point. More butch/neutral lesbian in my life with family and work and more butch overall in my life with the person I have recently connected with.

I do pack when I am away from home and like I have said before it feels very natural to me. I tend not to pack at work these days and mostly with the kids at home although when the urge is strong to pack I do have a flaccid, smaller packer that is not noticeable. I don't know where this will lead in the end. There is an interesting article in the Times about this today and although I relate partly to this it is like everything else, I think I will ID in the end as just me. I do want a relationship with the butch femme dynamic and like sleepy find myself gravitating towards that world because my feelings regarding relationships and my role in relationships is more male and more comfortable to be with others who get it.

[Cin]

Speaking from my me place, I think of butch as traditionally a female or woman identity. For me it's about butch masculinity carried in a female body, about queering masculinity in a female body. Butch does not equal male for me. There is a difference between masculine and male/man to me. There are butches who identify as male but I don't see that as a prerequisite for identifying as butch. To me it is another identifier used in conjunction with but is not a requisite part of being butch. However identifying as male is certainly a part, a very important part, of any butch that identifies that way. But a male identified butch is no more or less butch than a butch who sees butch as a third gender or a butch who sees herself as female and/or a woman. We are all butches. And queered masculinity is a big part of being butch whatever flavor you are. At least to me. And since butch is about queer masculinity whether it's female masculinity or male identified or whatever it's really about something that is intangible and not based on what we wear or who we love or what we enjoy doing in our spare time. It's about who we are inside.

You can identify as male, see yourself as male and be the kind of guy who is into clothes, who likes to read, go to museums or whatever and you can identify as a female and/or see yourself as a woman and be the kind of butch who likes to fix cars, shoot skeet, play sports or whatever. There are as many ways to do butch as there are butches; female identified, male identified or third gender or any variation or combination you can think of that works for you. Find what feels right for you and be that. Just always stay open to yourself and allow for changes as they occur. You can't beat fluidity.

[TruTexan]

Since I'm an older butch, 51 to be exact, and not much in contact with the LGBTQI community, hence the reasons why I tend to be on this site, I am not familiar with some of the ID's such as Butch as a Third Gender. Can someone please explain this to me gently? I mean I"m about a lost as a goose when it comes to this stuff and have spent a lot of time trying to retain what I've read in forums on this particular site, I have terrible time remembering things until I can find a way to get my brain to CLICK on and lodge the understanding in place and it stays. So, please help me to under stand what it means and any help from someone here on the site would be much appreciated.
Personally I see butch as a noun, an adjective and a verb and such. It means a lot to me in different ways that I've yet to be able to peace together on paper to write it out. My brain no longer works like it should due to several reasons and hence a disability for me at times when it comes to harder thinking.
So, thanks in advance for the help.


PS. MS.Tick, great post you seem so knowledgeable I like reading your posts. And to Jess who so to the time to post and step up as well and to all the others, what a wonderful way to make a newbie feel like they belong here and are cared about. I appreciate all of your posts, so well thought out and put together. I enjoyed reading each and every one of them. I learned something new in each post about myself so thanks.

And, to all of you here recently posting in the butch thread in response to randrum's post, thanks for stepping up to help ran. He needs our support on that journey of finding oneself. I personally love the site and all its been for me and the online friends I've made here. Thanks again.

[JDeere]

Welcome Randrum to the Planet, first off.

Secondly, you will find a lot and I mean a lot of different Identities on this site, it can be overwhelming at first, but asking questions, does help.

Back when I was in High school I was heterosexual genetic born female, then as I got older I came out as bisexual, I was with both genetic males and genetic females. Then I learned about butch, I wasn't so sure about it till I learned more from folks in the community, well lo and behold at the ripe age of 36, I learned that in all actuality what I was feeling about myself and how I felt as a child as well, is that I am Transgender.

Transgender is a huge umbrella term to me. I am writing this in my personal experience and opinion, only.

Everyday, lots of folks are coming into their own, give it time Randrum, you will get to where you feel very comfortable about your identity and yourself.

Never be afraid to be proud of who you are, no matter the label. You will find some great folks on the site as well as support.

If you ever need an ear, message me and we can chat.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by TruTexan

I am not familiar with some of the ID's such as Butch as a Third Gender. Can someone please explain this to me gently?

Some people see themselves as a gender other than female or male, thus the terminology third gender. It is a gender outside of the binary. Some people feel having a third gender reinforces the other two thus it does the opposite of breaking free of the binary. Some do not agree and feel that a third gender allows an escape from the masculine/feminine gender trap. Some think everything outside of the binary can and should be lumped into a single third gender. Others think there are many more than 2 or 3 genders.

I believe the important thing, however we identify, is not to adopt the gender binary. It's difficult since we spend a huge amount of time discussing our identities in terms of masculine and feminine. Socially constructed ways of understanding what it means to be male or female permeate our gender narrative and influence our conscious and unconscious assessments of who we are and how we act and interact with others. We need to examine this and understand how we are conditioned to think in pink or blue.

This is probably clear as mud. I'm sure there are many people here that could explain this a hell of lot better than I have.

[fulltimefaking]

I don't know if this is the right place to put this... but I would love to read about some butches experiences of dysphoria.

I'm 22 years old. I have been with girls since I was 14 and out of closet since then so that part is not a problem for me. I dressed and expressed myself rather feminine (with very little passion for it I can tell) until one year ago, when I started to buy "mens clothes". In the begin wearing "mens clothes" felt like being high, like I finally did something that was truly me. I cut my hair and so on.

Later last spring I started to be annoyed by my breast, mainly when I saw them in the mirror, but then it accelerated. Started to lie awake late at night and thinking of how it would be to have flat chest instead and longing for that. Longing in a really hurtful way. And I started to wish I would just wake up and look more like a guy. This is still going on (my attempts to suppress these feelings hasn't succeeded...) Sometimes I feel so disconnected from myself and my body. It is like that I'm some moments can get into some place where me having flat chest is real, and to get back to reality after that hurts so bad. I feel so much panic sometimes, when I realize there is no escape from this, from my body or from society. I feel like I don't want people to look at me, I can't stand anymore that they look at my body.
These feelings of panic worries me partly because I have a history of depression and self harming... I guess I am afraid that I will fall back

I have been trying to seek "explanations" for these feelings like, maybe I am a guy? (I know this is a super binary way of thinking). But I feel comfortable with female pronouns and most of the time with identifying as female. No other trans identities that I've read about makes sense for me either. I just feel like I am a masculine person, even if I don't now exactly what I mean when I say that.

I feel to scared to talk about this with anyone I know. I have mentioned this to my best friend but took it all back later, and said I just think it was a phase (lol). Actually I feel very lonely and disconnected from everything right now. I used to hang out a lot in feminist groups/enviorments, but lately I have just escaped all of that, doesn't feel like it is room for me there.

So, yeah, if someone would like to share it would be great to hear from some butches about your experience on dysphoria and how you are dealing with it.
I got to find a way to deal with this cause I won't be able to afford top surgery for probably another decade and someone like me would never pass the tests swedish doctors do before they provide free top surgery

Also, sorry if my english is not good, it is not my first language.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by fulltimefaking

I don't know if this is the right place to put this... but I would love to read about some butches experiences of dysphoria.

I'm 22 years old. I have been with girls since I was 14 and out of closet since then so that part is not a problem for me. I dressed and expressed myself rather feminine (with very little passion for it I can tell) until one year ago, when I started to buy "mens clothes". In the begin wearing "mens clothes" felt like being high, like I finally did something that was truly me. I cut my hair and so on.

Later last spring I started to be annoyed by my breast, mainly when I saw them in the mirror, but then it accelerated. Started to lie awake late at night and thinking of how it would be to have flat chest instead and longing for that. Longing in a really hurtful way. And I started to wish I would just wake up and look more like a guy. This is still going on (my attempts to suppress these feelings hasn't succeeded...) Sometimes I feel so disconnected from myself and my body. It is like that I'm some moments can get into some place where me having flat chest is real, and to get back to reality after that hurts so bad. I feel so much panic sometimes, when I realize there is no escape from this, from my body or from society. I feel like I don't want people to look at me, I can't stand anymore that they look at my body.
These feelings of panic worries me partly because I have a history of depression and self harming... I guess I am afraid that I will fall back

I have been trying to seek "explanations" for these feelings like, maybe I am a guy? (I know this is a super binary way of thinking). But I feel comfortable with female pronouns and most of the time with identifying as female. No other trans identities that I've read about makes sense for me either. I just feel like I am a masculine person, even if I don't now exactly what I mean when I say that.

I feel to scared to talk about this with anyone I know. I have mentioned this to my best friend but took it all back later, and said I just think it was a phase (lol). Actually I feel very lonely and disconnected from everything right now. I used to hang out a lot in feminist groups/enviorments, but lately I have just escaped all of that, doesn't feel like it is room for me there.

So, yeah, if someone would like to share it would be great to hear from some butches about your experience on dysphoria and how you are dealing with it.
I got to find a way to deal with this cause I won't be able to afford top surgery for probably another decade and someone like me would never pass the tests swedish doctors do before they provide free top surgery

Also, sorry if my english is not good, it is not my first language.

There are definitely a number of butches who feel dysphoric about their chest, but you may want to consider that perhaps when it comes to your sex, you would identify as non-binary (betweeen male and female) or gender neutral (neither male nor female), and that this is what you are bumping up against, rather than it coming solely from a place of being (a) butch. One can be butch and still be something other than female or woman identified. You are by far not the only person who feels this way. I will PM you a link to a forum that you can check out if you don't get all your questions answered here.

You are not alone, my friend!