Policing Gender

Daisy Chain · 06-08-2015, 01:53 PM

imperfect_cupcake

Basically. Because my gender expression isn't as important as theirs. Because mine isn't "genderqueer" and therefore I can change mine without feeling horrible (really??) Because femmes don't queer their gender, we are just like straight girls. Gender wise we are basically the same as straight women. That's why using images of any ol kind of femininity off stock photos is representative of femme gender. Cause it's all the same, femininity. But Butch or masculine female gender is queered and thus deserves more attention, room and respect for being individual. So if they feel uncomfortable about my presentation, it's ok to ask me to change because it's bog standard and meaningless and not queered.

What a brilliant point, I had never given this thought but how very true and articulately put.

DC

DapperButch · 06-08-2015, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

imperfect_cupcake

Basically. Because my gender expression isn't as important as theirs. Because mine isn't "genderqueer" and therefore I can change mine without feeling horrible (really??) Because femmes don't queer their gender, we are just like straight girls. Gender wise we are basically the same as straight women. That's why using images of any ol kind of femininity off stock photos is representative of femme gender. Cause it's all the same, femininity. But Butch or masculine female gender is queered and thus deserves more attention, room and respect for being individual. So if they feel uncomfortable about my presentation, it's ok to ask me to change because it's bog standard and meaningless and not queered.

What a brilliant point, I had never given this thought but how very true and articulately put.

DC

I agree with Daisy. Great point, imperfect cc!

MsTinkerbelly · 06-08-2015, 05:46 PM

I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak.

It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us.

Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

MsTinkerbelly · 06-08-2015, 05:58 PM

You know i was thinking....

I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning?

We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her...

Lots to think about Martina, thank you!

Daisy Chain · 06-09-2015, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

You know i was thinking....

I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning?

We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her...

Lots to think about Martina, thank you!

I have to confess that I may of had that reaction as well.....heres a thought, I wonder if she was exploring her butch side ?

DC

DapperButch · 06-09-2015, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I have to confess that I may of had that reaction as well.....heres a thought, I wonder if she was exploring her butch side ?

DC

Exactly. Gender expression is different from gender identity. There are trans women who are butch.

JDeere · 06-08-2015, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak.

It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us.

Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

I have gotten told I am not MAN enough because I am Pre-everything right now.
I don't get the whole arguing within the LGTBQI community!

Why police gender when it is not even anyone else's business, except maybe the partner you are and with and yourself!

Daisy Chain · 06-09-2015, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

I have gotten told I am not MAN enough because I am Pre-everything right now.
I don't get the whole arguing within the LGTBQI community!

Why police gender when it is not even anyone else's business, except maybe the partner you are and with and yourself!

I`ve known more than a few BIO`s that were `post` everything and still not, nor ever would be, close to being `man` enough on many levels....

where as I`ve known female ID`d butches who had pretty much everything covered !

I dont get the arguing either.

DC

JDeere · 06-09-2015, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I`ve known more than a few BIO`s that were `post` everything and still not, nor ever would be, close to being `man` enough on many levels....

where as I`ve known female ID`d butches who had pretty much everything covered !

I dont get the arguing either.

DC

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

Daisy Chain · 06-10-2015, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

Yep. `man up`...a contradiction in terms surely !

I too have much to learn and enjoy learning ! When you get to a point when you think you have nothing else to learn you are screwed !

DC

imperfect_cupcake · 06-10-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

I think it depends on intent. There is an extremely camp drag King night here in vancouver called "Man Up!" And it's used as a camp-ish slang to doing a form of dragking "Im manning up when I do the MC for the band" it means presenting a caricature personality ... Like outrageous drag King personas.

It's not an insult, it's a camp play on words for humour towards a loved past time.

But it totally can be a shitty, gender policing term and is more often used that way.

Also "Don't be a pussy" to all genders, referring to female genitalia. When vaginas are some of the toughest parts of the body - it can take stuff that no other part can.

06-08-2015, 01:53 PM	#1
Daisy Chain Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Hy calls me Hys Kitten Join Date: May 2015 Location: 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning Posts: 729 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,814 Thanked 1,808 Times in 447 Posts Rep Power: 0	imperfect_cupcake Basically. Because my gender expression isn't as important as theirs. Because mine isn't "genderqueer" and therefore I can change mine without feeling horrible (really??) Because femmes don't queer their gender, we are just like straight girls. Gender wise we are basically the same as straight women. That's why using images of any ol kind of femininity off stock photos is representative of femme gender. Cause it's all the same, femininity. But Butch or masculine female gender is queered and thus deserves more attention, room and respect for being individual. So if they feel uncomfortable about my presentation, it's ok to ask me to change because it's bog standard and meaningless and not queered. What a brilliant point, I had never given this thought but how very true and articulately put. DC

06-08-2015, 05:46 PM	#3
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak. It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us. Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

06-08-2015, 05:58 PM	#4
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	You know i was thinking.... I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning? We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her... Lots to think about Martina, thank you!