Orange is the New Black: Season 3

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Nat

Boo's dad: You won't even recognize her she's so frail.

Boo: I can handle it, Pop.

Boo's dad: I don't think she can.

Boo: What, you mean the sight of her dyke daughter is gonna make her worse?

Boo's dad: Carrie, would it kill you to put on some other clothes before you see her?

Boo: Well, these are my good Chucks, Pop.

Boo's dad: You know what I mean.

Boo: Gosh. I am so fucking tired. I have been her daughter for 42 years. Now, don't you think she could have taken some of that time to work on accepting me for who I am, rather than mourning every fucking thing that I am not?

Boo's dad: I understand that whatever this is, is important to you, but it's a costume, that's all. The rest of us, we get up, put on a suit and a tie, we go to work. You think that's how I wanted to dress five days a week? No, of course not. But no one gets the privilege of being themselves all the time, Carrie. No one. Now if you want to go in there and upset her, I'm not gonna stop you. But you need to decide whether your costume is worth what it's costing you.

Boo: I have had to fight for this all my life, Dad. All my life. Strangers, girlfriends, fuck, even my own parents all asking me to be something that I am not. Do you have any idea what that feels like? Like your whole fucking existence is being denied? Like, 'Woah, you'd be better off if you were invisible.'? Yeah. I refuse to be invisible, Daddy. Not for you, not for Mom, not for anybody. So, um, I'm sorry.

I watched this episode last night, although I am not a loyal viewer of the series.
Maybe this was discussed elsewhere but what I noticed interested me. In this quoted interaction and the one from the character's childhood. And then the one with the evangelical bible guy at the end.

The dad seems to be asking her for a more traditional gender presentation (clothing) in the childhood sequence, and I was wondering if it would become about gender presentation. Then later at the hospital, he asks her about her gender/class presentation again. She responds about her sexuality.
The crazy bible guy at the hospital just walked into a set-up.

I thought the writing was interesting because the deLaria's character didn't handle the last 2 interactions very well at all. I wonder if the writers were showing why the character had regrets about not saying bye to her mom. Also I wonder if the average viewer will still think gender presentation is the same as sexuality.
A friend told me to watch the episode because she wanted to see I thought the butch was presented fairly. (I am clearly the AUTHOR-AH-TAY on all things butch!)
Anybody have thoughts on this?

[imperfect_cupcake]

If it was presented fairly? Gosh. For that character, yes.
But kind of hard to say to have one person represent all of the land of Butch.

[betruetoyoursoul]

We officially finished season 3 of Orange is the New Black. I do think the season got better as it went along. Each character grew as the season developed. Looking forward to another season next year if the show is renewed. I hope everyone is having a great day*S!

[HoldMeSteady]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

The dad seems to be asking her for a more traditional gender presentation (clothing) in the childhood sequence, and I was wondering if it would become about gender presentation. Then later at the hospital, he asks her about her gender/class presentation again. She responds about her sexuality.
The crazy bible guy at the hospital just walked into a set-up.

I thought the writing was interesting because the deLaria's character didn't handle the last 2 interactions very well at all. I wonder if the writers were showing why the character had regrets about not saying bye to her mom. Also I wonder if the average viewer will still think gender presentation is the same as sexuality.
A friend told me to watch the episode because she wanted to see I thought the butch was presented fairly. (I am clearly the AUTHOR-AH-TAY on all things butch!)
Anybody have thoughts on this?

I have mixed feelings and thoughts about this interaction. Boo could have (probably should have) worn nicer male or androgynous clothes to visit her parents at the hospital. But what does she do about her hair and piercings? And although her father gives an interesting perspective on costumes, I'm not sure they're really talking about costumes. For one thing, Boo's father didn't have to wear a dress to work. He could still maintain his gender integrity. Secondly, I think for Boo and her parents, gender and sexual orientation are bound up. Their fight about her sexual orientation has obviously gone on for years and one of the battle grounds has been Boo's gender presentation. Would her father have been okay if she had shown up in nicer masculine clothes? And wouldn't asking Boo to change her gender presentation be just as damaging as asking her to hide her sexual orientation?

Another thought which seems somehow related to this, is that I have known butches, especially years ago, who always dressed more feminine when dressing up. Probably, because of the danger, they didn't wear suits or tuxedos.

Finally, in answer to your question, I do believe that many people still think that gender and orientation is the same thing, or at least closely related. Judging, at least, from my limited personal experience, they are somewhat related. I've only met one man who feels a lot like a woman inside (who doesn't want to transition) who is heterosexual. But I've met many gay feminine men. I only know a couple of women who feel somewhat male identified (who don't want to transition) that are heterosexual, but the vast majority of the butches I meet are gay (or sometimes bi).

Just my widely ranging thoughts. I felt a bit conflicted by that episode.

[dykeumentary]

HoldMeSteady thanks for your thoughts.
Since I don't really watch the show I didn't know if the "gender expression = sexuality" was just handled poorly by the writers or if it was Boo's chip on her shoulder.

I am happy to have this discussion because I am a butch who plays around with my gender expression - that is, I figure out what my goals in a situation are, and then express my gender accordingly. I don't shy away from a fight, and also don't miss opportunities to be with my family.
So when I saw the show, I questioned myself.

I also am quite sure that if someone said to me or to my very straight very male hetero-identified brothers and friends "here, put on this dress if you want to see your dying mother" that I and they would without hesitation wear the dress.

It's an interesting topic and it was an interesting episode.

[HoldMeSteady]

boo has a chip on her shoulder and she regretted not seeing her mother. she also isn't that well adjusted. I'm curious how you play with your gender expression in different situations?

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by HoldMeSteady

boo has a chip on her shoulder and she regretted not seeing her mother. she also isn't that well adjusted. I'm curious how you play with your gender expression in different situations?

I'll be brief so I don't derail the thread too much-
I really am a working class manual laborer (in construction). So I dress in jeans and boots and often a layer of flannel in the morning. Because sexism determines that construction is "male" job, when I dress for my job, people read that I'm dressing male. (And I really am a butch dyke, and becuase of second-hand heteronormativity, when I am dressed for my job people think I must be a self-hating woman who is trying to emulate men's clothing and jobs so they I can get with a woman.)

Isn't that hilarious people make assumptions about me and assume I have some motive behind my gender expression besides- "I'm on my way to work."

So sometimes I like to tart myself up a bit - with sequins and glitter. And sometimes I like to go all-out-mini skirt/make-up/heels. And I like to play with the intersections of class and gender- when I did drag I would sometimes dress up as a superRich man, or super-exaggerated working class guy. (I was always resentful when a drag shows the kings would perform "class" in an unexamibwd way. I express gender in whatever way I think would be most fun for me.

I prefer thoughtfulness to rigidity in every area!