Spoiling our Dogs and Puppies

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Bard

question for the pup lovers here we have a wippet mix who is a rescue we have had her over a year she was very shy when we got her but now has come out of her shell. We also have a Sheppard mix who Phoebe loves. Phoebe took off on Desd back in late June and was missing for 10 days thank god we got her back we were a wreck. Now she is scared shitles of a fire in the firepace she will shake and cower run out of the room jump the baby gate to go upstairs. AND we have noticed the past few days she will all of a sudden get really scared of something and shake like hell Desd tried to hold her and comfort her show her that she is safe but it dosent help and I have had her do it with me to I can hold her and it passes but I have no clue what is makeing her so scared I dont want my baby to be scared we are wondering if it is like a post stress thing she was missing over the 4th of July and if we are outside and a loud bang goes off she runs to me and cowers and shakes on my feetSO I pick her up and she snuggles into me

any thoughts

I agree with the PTSD diagnosis. I would suggest calling your vet and asking her what to do. I suspect that just like with people, it will abate over time. I would just make sure she has an emotional safe place when you build a fire for example (can she be allowed upstairs?). I wouldn't try to make her more comfortable with the fire, I would just let her go where she needs to go to feel safe. Trying to coax her to be ok with the fire could do more damage (you didn't say you were doing this, I was just saying).

Also, just like you said, if she is scares and runs to you, pick her up and hold her close against you so that she feels safe. Hopefully, over time it will lessen, but she may always be afraid of fire and a little skittish with noise. I would still call your vet just to check though.

Good luck.

[Bard]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I agree with the PTSD diagnosis. I would suggest calling your vet and asking her what to do. I suspect that just like with people, it will abate over time. I would just make sure she has an emotional safe place when you build a fire for example (can she be allowed upstairs?). I wouldn't try to make her more comfortable with the fire, I would just let her go where she needs to go to feel safe. Trying to coax her to be ok with the fire could do more damage (you didn't say you were doing this, I was just saying).

Also, just like you said, if she is scares and runs to you, pick her up and hold her close against you so that she feels safe. Hopefully, over time it will lessen, but she may always be afraid of fire and a little skittish with noise. I would still call your vet just to check though.

Good luck.

thanks yeah she can go upstairs but then she has a accident not all the time but .. She was not scared of the fireplace before we had used the fireplace when we first moved in to the house and she was fine it is just now soo. we are also thinking of getting her a thunder shirt we have one for Grace and it make a lot of diffrence. I will talk to the vet tho and keep holding her close

[Metro]

Originally Posted by Bard

question for the pup lovers here we have a wippet mix who is a rescue we have had her over a year she was very shy when we got her but now has come out of her shell. We also have a Sheppard mix who Phoebe loves. Phoebe took off on Desd back in late June and was missing for 10 days thank god we got her back we were a wreck. Now she is scared shitles of a fire in the firepace she will shake and cower run out of the room jump the baby gate to go upstairs. AND we have noticed the past few days she will all of a sudden get really scared of something and shake like hell Desd tried to hold her and comfort her show her that she is safe but it dosent help and I have had her do it with me to I can hold her and it passes but I have no clue what is makeing her so scared I dont want my baby to be scared we are wondering if it is like a post stress thing she was missing over the 4th of July and if we are outside and a loud bang goes off she runs to me and cowers and shakes on my feetso I pick her up and she snuggles into me

any thoughts

In dog obedience training we learned it was better not to reinforce a dog's fear by holding them physically close (as that is basically rewarding the fearful behavior).

Instead, these classes trained human companions to engage the dog in performing a different activity (like heeling, sitting, laying down, or coming when called) for which the dog is rewarded by verbal praise and/or a small treat.

This technique distracts the dog from the fear inducing situation or thing and also reinforces good activity and behavior via training -- which many dogs enjoy since they have our undivided attention. In addition, they are given an opportunity to please and thus be rewarded. Reward = Happy



This tactic works for me. I keep training or engaging the dog in play (i.e. fetching a ball) until they become focused on the training and forget about the worrisome or tantilizing situation.

It may take several short sessions, building up over a period of time, to desensitize a dog to something which is fear inducing. And it may only help to a degree, but perhaps it's worth a try?

Another thing I picked up in classes is to ignore loud noises -- dog's look for our reactions and if we model calm then they may become less concerned, too.

Good luck.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Bard

thanks yeah she can go upstairs but then she has a accident not all the time but .. She was not scared of the fireplace before we had used the fireplace when we first moved in to the house and she was fine it is just now soo. we are also thinking of getting her a thunder shirt we have one for Grace and it make a lot of diffrence. I will talk to the vet tho and keep holding her close

Yes, I think you are right, I think the fire is all about the 4th of July...sparks, you know? Thunder shirt is a good idea. I guess I was thinking being allowed to go upstairs only during fire time. The important thing is that she has parents who love her....that is what is going to heal her the quickest! :-)

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Yes, I think you are right, I think the fire is all about the 4th of July...sparks, you know? Thunder shirt is a good idea. I guess I was thinking being allowed to go upstairs only during fire time. The important thing is that she has parents who love her....that is what is going to heal her the quickest! :-)

I wish we could let her go upstairs, but she will a) eat all the cat's food and b) have accidents - sometimes multiple accidents throughout the night if we do not notice she has jumped it and ran upstairs.

The random, severe shaking is new though, and there has not been anything I've heard that will cause it. Sometimes she will lay between us and the couch and shove her nose in the corner and just shake

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by desd

I wish we could let her go upstairs, but she will a) eat all the cat's food and b) have accidents - sometimes multiple accidents throughout the night if we do not notice she has jumped it and ran upstairs.

The random, severe shaking is new though, and there has not been anything I've heard that will cause it. Sometimes she will lay between us and the couch and shove her nose in the corner and just shake

Oh, I see about the upstairs.

Does it make sense to you, as Bard says, that it could be related to her being out during the 4th of July? It really seems to be a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder like humans get. Any trigger (in this case, fire which crackles like a firecracker), makes her feel as if the event is happening again.

The random shaking happens during times there is no loud noises and no fires? Just randomly out of the blue? Did it start right after she was found OR did it start after you started making fires in the fireplace?

<---human therapist

[Words]

Originally Posted by Bard

thanks yeah she can go upstairs but then she has a accident not all the time but .. She was not scared of the fireplace before we had used the fireplace when we first moved in to the house and she was fine it is just now soo. we are also thinking of getting her a thunder shirt we have one for Grace and it make a lot of diffrence. I will talk to the vet tho and keep holding her close

One of O/our Yorkies is petrified of the crackling of the fire. W/we've tried holding him close in the hope this will help but he just continues to shiver so W/we've basically given up.

Funny thing is, he has no problem with fireworks. Yours?

Words

[ButchEire]

I know you're trying to help him feel better but in reality, holding him close when he's afraid of the fire is reinforcing his fear. Ignoring him (making sure he is safe, of course) and rewarding with praise, etc. when he becomes calm is the best way to reinforce your goal.

Originally Posted by Words

One of O/our Yorkies is petrified of the crackling of the fire. W/we've tried holding him close in the hope this will help but he just continues to shiver so W/we've basically given up.

Funny thing is, he has no problem with fireworks. Yours?

Words

[Words]

Originally Posted by ButchEire

I know you're trying to help him feel better but in reality, holding him close when he's afraid of the fire is reinforcing his fear. Ignoring him (making sure he is safe, of course) and rewarding with praise, etc. when he becomes calm is the best way to reinforce your goal.

Thanks. I just went and did what I should have done before and read the posts that preceded mine.

It's just such a pity. I hate the idea of him being upstairs all by himself - our home is 300 years old and very draughty - but if that's what he needs to do, then that's what he needs to do. (We've tried the reward/praise idea but again, no go.)

Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

Words

[ButchEire]

Dogs and animals in general pick up on your emotional energy and he may also be reflecting your angst (for want of a better word) about his discomfort. This would thwart the goal of his own calm-ness.

Originally Posted by Words

Thanks. I just went and did what I should have done before and read the posts that preceded mine.

It's just such a pity. I hate the idea of him being upstairs all by himself - our home is 300 years old and very draughty - but if that's what he needs to do, then that's what he needs to do. (We've tried the reward/praise idea but again, no go.)

Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

Words

[pajama]

Originally Posted by Metro

In dog obedience training we learned it was better not to reinforce a dog's fear by holding them physically close (as that is basically rewarding the fearful behavior).

Instead, these classes trained human companions to engage the dog in performing a different activity (like heeling, sitting, laying down, or coming when called) for which the dog is rewarded by verbal praise and/or a small treat.

This technique distracts the dog from the fear inducing situation or thing and also reinforces good activity and behavior via training -- which many dogs enjoy since they have our undivided attention. In addition, they are given an opportunity to please and thus be rewarded. Reward = Happy

It may take several short sessions, building up over a period of time, to desensitize a dog to something which is fear inducing. And it may only help to a degree, but perhaps it's worth a try?

It's funny, although I seldom watch Dog Whisperer, I happened to watch an episode yesterday that had a dog displaying this type of behavior over a screen door. First, you're right, Cesar said do not go to the dog or coddle the dog when he is displaying fear as it reinforces "Yes you're right, you're in danger, and I as your Alpha will protect you from it." Second, at the moment, the dog is only in fight-or-flight mode. And no amount of training will sink in. You have to break the fear. What Cesar did was kept walking up to the screen (or fire in your case) with the dog on the leash. Even though the dog pulled and tried to get away he would just hold steady there. He wouldn't talk to the dog, he wouldn't PRAISE the dog, because the dog would think the praise is for the fear not for just standing there. Insert disclaimer here of do not try this at home, Cesar is a trained professional, blah, blah, blah.

Originally Posted by desd

The random, severe shaking is new though, and there has not been anything I've heard that will cause it. Sometimes she will lay between us and the couch and shove her nose in the corner and just shake

This may just be because somehow the original fear has been reinforced (unwittingly, I mean until I saw the show yesterday I would have done all the same things to try and comfort the dog.). So now the dog thinks, "Oh there is danger here. Well is that danger? What about that? Over there, what's that?"

I don't really know what to say to help fix it. Just what I've heard that might make it worse. I guess you have to think like the alpha and think of things that would show you're not afraid of whatever.

A

[Bard]

I was not home for new years but Desd said she was crazy scared with the fireworks.. With the fireplace I try to just have her sit by me so she can feel secure and stoke her telling her mamas got you bubba dog kind of how I would try to soothe my daughter when she was very small. when it is the random shaking for no apparent reason that was when I try to hold her close . Grace even goes to her and kisses her face . they react differently Grace was a stray and she was abused at some point. Phoebe was tossed in a shelter when she was weened so she did not get human socialization and she is very shy since we got Grace Phoebe is much more outgoing . With Desd and I phobe is very loving

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Oh, I see about the upstairs.

Does it make sense to you, as Bard says, that it could be related to her being out during the 4th of July? It really seems to be a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder like humans get. Any trigger (in this case, fire which crackles like a firecracker), makes her feel as if the event is happening again.

The random shaking happens during times there is no loud noises and no fires? Just randomly out of the blue? Did it start right after she was found OR did it start after you started making fires in the fireplace?

<---human therapist

Yes, the shaking often happens out of the blue. If there is loud noises, it will happen too of course. Just a few minutes ago they heard a sound outside and went beserk barking, then Phoebe was on my feet shaking like a twig. I am going to say the shaking started anytime we had a fire after we had gotten her back.. so all we can think of is a PTSD from when she was out and about.

The shaking thing though, she does when she is nervous sometimes, always has, but this is more extreme and she fights you if you try to hold her. Before if she was scared of say someone new and was a little shaky, you could hold her and she'd be okay.

Originally Posted by Words

One of O/our Yorkies is petrified of the crackling of the fire. W/we've tried holding him close in the hope this will help but he just continues to shiver so W/we've basically given up.

Funny thing is, he has no problem with fireworks. Yours?

Words

Fireworks freak her out. The crackling of the fire has no effect on her - we tried the fireplace on Netflix that has the crackling sound and she paid no mind to it - so I wonder if she is associating the smell with the fires going on outside during the 4th of July?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by desd

so I wonder if she is associating the smell with the fires going on outside during the 4th of July?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Any behavior or fear around fire or loud, unepxected sounds AFTER being gone I bet would be connected to 4th of July. PTSD.

Any behavior that was in place prior to being lost during the 4th would be something else.

I would bet a dog behaviorist would have a different approach for treating a dog's fear response that is due to "trauma", then they would for a fear response that is not a result of trauma. But, maybe not. That is why going to meet with your vet is a good idea. It seems rather complicated, and I would worry that it could be damaging if you did anything besides just letting her "do her thing" when she is scared...if she wants to be close, let her be close, if she wants to run as far away as she can, then let her do that. I personally wouldn't try any other tactic unless a vet told me what to do. You don't want to make it worse for her.

[christie]

Even the girls at Starbucks are in on the spoiling of Felix... he gets his own, gratis, "pupacino"... a very small cup of whipped cream.

He goes NUTS for this... Bratboy usually gets a vanilla bean frap.... Felix sees it andstartsto garbling, whining and trying his damnedest to get to it... its funny as all hell to watch...

Its not a frequent treat for him, so I don't worry about it too much. It makes him happy and I get a giggle out of it!

[choochoo-enginerd]

Originally Posted by christie

Even the girls at Starbucks are in on the spoiling of Felix... he gets his own, gratis, "pupacino"... a very small cup of whipped cream.

He goes NUTS for this... Bratboy usually gets a vanilla bean frap.... Felix sees it andstartsto garbling, whining and trying his damnedest to get to it... its funny as all hell to watch...

Its not a frequent treat for him, so I don't worry about it too much. It makes him happy and I get a giggle out of it!

Yah....and we won't dicuss in detail any adverse effects of whip cream on the pooch, just that it brings him joy....and his mama and pops joy to indulge him for a moment! The girls at starbucks luuuuuv him <3

[pamcat]

Originally Posted by Linus

LOL.. they do have personalities, eh? Ours love little carrots. They go apeshit over them when ever we bring him a bag of those tiny carrots. They will try every trick we've taught them (Fawnda in particular) to get one. What I mean is if I have a carrot or two in my hand Fawnda will sit, shake paw, spin, lie down, roll over and play dead (especially the hammy dead of all four paws stuck up awkwardly in the air) to convince me that they should have the carrot(s).

I have collies ( both rough and smooth) and they love carrots too. My rough boy will eat it very daintily and keep coming back to it, but my smooth boy throws it in the air, catches it, eats a few bites, plays with it again, so funny and a delight to watch. But they will never touch each others carrots, even if they are left in the yard. They're very respectful of each other's belongings, but that's a collie for you - just beautiful boys.

[Jesse]

I thought this would be a good thread for posting this recall I just received via email.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-recall/baileys-choice-dog-treats-recall/

[Jar]

My pup is a 7 yr old pekehund.... Mixture of dachshund and Pekingese. I only feed her blue dog food which is made in Connecticut. Her food bill is almost as much as mine

[Rockinonahigh]

Last year my pug who was healthy as a horse started haveing seesurs(????) then the shakes,I had been feeding the jerky treats from wagon train,then I read about dogs in japan and other places dieing from kidny problems along with other things.I stoped feeding any of this treat cause she would get lethargic with diarea then after she passed it all she would bounce right back.Even after not haveing the jerky for a while these symthoms would come back,I had her geting over this with help from my vet,she was in my room laying on the pillows in the corner while I was takeing a shower so when I got out and went back in my room she had passed,she looked like she had a stroke or heart attack at best gess from my vet.I was going to have an autopsie done but it was way expensive to do so I didnt.I absolutly wont have any of those treats any where near my fur kids.I feed the one I have now purina beef and burger soft chew dog food with on problems at all and they thrive on it.I have lately been cooking my own dog food up with chicken breast with small veggies or use beef fixed the same way,they like it and I know its safe.I have a friend who works for purina mills we have talked about this issue a lot so i'm learning a lot about nutrition not just buying a bag of dog food..I really miss Puggy.