What attracts you to Ftms ......

[*Anya*]

Oh, the good old 1950's! How about this article which is typical of women's magazines of the time?

Sounds super doesn't it?

Signed,

Anya
(The anti-June Cleaver)


Housekeeping Monthly - May 13, 1955:

*Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have be thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially his favourite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.

*Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you’ll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary men.

*Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.

*Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives. Run a dustcloth over the tables.

*Over the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.

*Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Encourage the children to be quiet.

*Be happy to see him.

*Greet him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him.

*Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.

*Make the evening his. Never complain if he comes home late or goes out to dinner or other places of entertainment without you.
Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure and his very real need to be at home and relax.

*Your goal: To try and make sure your home is a place of peace, order, and tranquility where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit.

*Don’t greet him with complaints and problems.

*Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or have him lie down in the bedroom.

*Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.

*Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.

^Don’t ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.

*A good wife always knows her place.

[DMW]

Actually, i prefer Donna Reed. Or Alice Kramden. I guess i am not that much of a gentleman. To each his own. Both of them had sexy ass brains, wit and sassiness. That special femme power that only a femme can have. Not to mention, the ability to do all of the stuff that i don't do or don't care to do. And all the other special things...those little girly/woman things...that make life better.

[Gemme]

Yanno, every few years this argument pops up. It's a case of what floats someone's boat, not making social commentaries.

The 50s era was not exactly beneficial to the progress of women's rights. It kinda sucked at it in a big way. But if someone wants to dress in an apron and take care of their man/guy/butch/wife/etc in ways that simulate that time, then what beeswax is it to anyone else HOW they do it as long as it's not abusive? Really? C'mon now.

That's like you (general you) saying "I like to beat my honey's ass black and blue before church every Sunday" and getting shit on for saying it. It's their thing and their kink, if you will. Let's see someone tell someone else how to do their kink and see what kind of fiasco we have. No one is pushing it on anyone else. Those in favor of this lifestyle are expressing their love for it.

Someone please explain the problem with that to me. They aren't demanding women's rights be taken back to that time; they are saying 'this is how I am and what I like'. Period.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Gemme

The 50s era was not exactly beneficial to the progress of women's rights. It kinda sucked at it in a big way. But if someone wants to dress in an apron and take care of their man/guy/butch/wife/etc in ways that simulate that time, then what beeswax is it to anyone else HOW they do it as long as it's not abusive? Really? C'mon now.

I have to agree with this. First, I didn't read the "June Cleaver" lifestyle as a commentary on anything other than the image/surface ideal - I certainly didn't read it as a denial of the issues behind that actual time period.

But the main thing is that as a strong feminist, I believe that women have the right to choose, INCLUDING the right to choose to be a "housewife" and meet her spouse at the door with a cocktail in hand, wearing an apron and pearls as she cooks her spouse's favorite meal. Women choices should be respected even if they choose things that were once considered anti-feminist: Posing nude, being a sex worker, modeling as a pin-up girl, rarely if ever going out of the house without being perfectly made-up and coiffed, being a "girl" or "submissive" to a "Daddy" or "Master," etc. If those things are being forced on her by someone who is abusive and controlling, or she's doing them only because of the lack of any viable economic choices, or because of her own lack of self-esteem, or because she's been very conditioned to believe that's the only thing she can do well, that's an entirely different story. But I would like to at least presume that when anyone talks about something like that here, they are talking about a consensual relationship where both parties truly have equal power.

[Canela]

I like that I don't have to be anything other than myself, a girlie girl, a lady, a woman, a mother...and he is my man, bf, mister and doesn't have a problem with me being me and him being him. We just are...

I had a long with term relationship with someone who was soft butch and that person tried to do and control everything and kept me from contributing to our relationship in the way I (a) female, girlie girl, mama, woman like me does...it pretty much cut me out of being a part of the whole thing. I was supposed to just do as I was directed to do instead of directing, as well...I couldn't hang with that. I know not everyone is that way, but for ME, there was no "ying-yang" thing going on there.

I was raised very old school, but with a feminist influence.

I love/enjoy being a care giver, a mother, a lover, and a woman that belongs with a male energy...It just feels right for me. I don't cater to my man because I have to, I do it because I want to. I am that way...if anyone came to my home for let's say a dinner party, I would cater to you as well...it's just the way I roll...not because I am being submissive, but because I care to be good to you and ensure you are enjoying your time visiting me/us. The same with me and my man/bf/FtM...I do it because I want him to be comfortable, make it easier for him to relax...put him in a good frame of mind...I like doing those types of things. (I also like them being done for me...)

That said, I also like to be a strong, empowered, intelligent woman...I like to have a voice in my dealings whether personal or professional. I like to have the power to say yes or no to things in our life that affect us (he and I) and I am not militant about it unless "I" feel my rights or feelings have been violated/overlooked/trampled upon and then you (general you/they) WILL definitely hear from me.

I have found that my voice, my sphere of influence, while not very large does have a deep resonating effect on some and I use it wisely. By wisely, I mean that I encourage all people/genders/lifestyle/etc... to be all they can be, and do all they can do, follow their hearts and dreams and goals and what they want to do to find their own joy in life. Because in the end, it's not about how society, I, or anyone else tells us how to live to be happy. It's our own personal choices that will make us so.

So, back to the topic at hand--okay, so I love me some FtM's.
(One in particular that I'm rather fond of...)

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Manners, courtesy are not gender nor time specific, I feel that to be a very popular misconception when it comes to the "Cleavers" reference.

I won't even go into the whole racism, classism issues with the Cleavers.

Is tht we ALL get to agree with what's right for us & we ALL get a voice & we ALL deserve to be allowed to do such...at least in this venue...yes?

I find manners & courtesy are SORELY lacking nowdays....maybe people don't have time for them? Or maybe people are SO selfish it doesn't occur or matter to them...but, you are right they are not & should not be time or gender specific..<smile>

Jonathan

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by DMW

Actually, i prefer Donna Reed. Or Alice Kramden. I guess i am not that much of a gentleman. To each his own. Both of them had sexy ass brains, wit and sassiness. That special femme power that only a femme can have. Not to mention, the ability to do all of the stuff that i don't do or don't care to do. And all the other special things...those little girly/woman things...that make life better.

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Is tht we ALL get to agree with what's right for us & we ALL get a voice & we ALL deserve to be allowed to do such...at least in this venue...yes?

I find manners & courtesy are SORELY lacking nowdays....maybe people don't have time for them? Or maybe people are SO selfish it doesn't occur or matter to them...but, you are right they are not & should not be time or gender specific..<smile>

Jonathan

Correct I believe we can all state our preferences or desires WITHOUT having to step on the backs of others OR setting a hierarchy of what makes FEMME a Femme and what it's expected of a FEMME.

We (Femme's) come in all kinds of varieties, values, etc etc. I'm all for everyone doing what floats their boat.

But when someone uses words like "scoff" it's irritating because it's not "scoffing" it's a choice (just like the choice to be in a June Cleaver existance) and to paint those of us who don't in a negative tone is and was totally unnecessary when describing one's own desires and wants.

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

Well, it definitely shouldn't be like this either.

In the words of the departed Rodney King, "Can we all get along?"

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Well, it definitely shouldn't be like this either.

In the words of the departed Rodney King, "Can we all get along?"

Yes we should, it's not hard to state one's preferences and keep those preferences, desires, wants, needs, and must haves. It's when those things are stated with a quick jab, at those who don't roll that way are made that the problems start.

We just had this very same convo not even a few months ago in another thread when "50's nostalgia" was brought up.

[DMW]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...

I don't believe there is a manual or instruction booklet out on all things woman and girly....and i don't believe that everyone would feel the same about what is "woman or girly"..so, the booklet wouldn't work for everyone i suppose.

However, for me...Woman/girly attributes that i like...her smell, her voice, her smile, her walk. Her fingernail polish, her perfume,her hair and her kisses. All of her female energy.
Those are just some of the little things that i like...that actually amount to a lot. I won't go into anymore detail regarding the other little things that i adore about a femme. Not here anyway.

I agree that manners and common courtesy are not gender or time specific either.

[weatherboi]

For me, describing everyday kindness and manners under the guise of old fashioned/old school is just antiquated thinking. In my world, none of these things are gender specific, age specific, or heteronormative specific. The days are long gone that I need to adopt herteronormative ideals in order for me validate my relationship or my gender. It is no longer necessary for me.

I know the many reasons why I am attracted to Her and She is attracted to me. The list gets longer everyday and it strengthens the endless nature to attraction and love. It is this endless exchange that grows this Femme led relationship.

Chivalry, manners, and attraction are not dead...they just doesn't always look or act like an old 50's sitcom, nor does it only belong to any gender or culture.

I am not sure why kink was brought up.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...






Correct I believe we can all state our preferences or desires WITHOUT having to step on the backs of others OR setting a hierarchy of what makes FEMME a Femme and what it's expected of a FEMME.

We (Femme's) come in all kinds of varieties, values, etc etc. I'm all for everyone doing what floats their boat.

But when someone uses words like "scoff" it's irritating because it's not "scoffing" it's a choice (just like the choice to be in a June Cleaver existance) and to paint those of us who don't in a negative tone is and was totally unnecessary when describing one's own desires and wants.

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

nor will I........& I'm not "painting" so.....I still maintain it's all ok. I am sorry you have had such experiences however...I believe that sucks !

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

For me, describing everyday kindness and manners under the guise of old fashioned/old school is just antiquated thinking. In my world, none of these things are gender specific, age specific, or heteronormative specific. The days are long gone that I need to adopt herteronormative ideals in order for me validate my relationship or my gender. It is no longer necessary for me.

I know the many reasons why I am attracted to Her and She is attracted to me. The list gets longer everyday and it strengthens the endless nature to attraction and love. It is this endless exchange that grows this Femme led relationship.

Chivalry, manners, and attraction are not dead...they just doesn't always look or act like an old 50's sitcom, nor does it only belong to any gender or culture.

I am not sure why kink was brought up.

Again, your opinion & I respect that. I'm not aware I truly placed manners & common courtesy ONLY in the "good old days" at all. I simply have found that people today aren't as aware or concerned with them....that's been my experience. From the snotty nosed child who bolts past you & runs into you not saying excuse me....to the woman OR man who cuts right in front of you to grab a box of faux mac & cheese & seems completely oblivious to the space that you inhabit.....THAT is what I'm talking about......I was raised to say please & thank you, excuse me, pardon me etc...I was born in the 50's & my friends from then were also taught likewise....I KNOW there are parents & teachers who teach it today also....it just seems to ME it is less prevelant.....that's all.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

nor will I........& I'm not "painting" so.....I still maintain it's all ok. I am sorry you have had such experiences however...I believe that sucks !

It was never implied that *you* scoffed, what WAS implied is those of us who don't choose to live this way "BALK" at those who do.

That is an unfair judgement/assumption.

We're all different on who and what we are attracted to, not all Femme's are going to be into a June-Ward dynamic nor are all FTM's going to be as well.


As I have said before and others have as well

It's great that we get to talk about our desires and wants and what turns us on, what is NOT cool is when one (general) makes an untrue assumption on those that don't happen to roll in that way.

[weatherboi]

Ok, well I am not speaking of the experiences I have out in the world with a bunch of general you's. I am speaking from a dating and love perspective and I thought you were also. I thought we all were. I don't have an expectation of how strangers are gonna act when I am out running into them. I am sure there are kids in the 50's that acted like asshats...we all do, the good old day were not absent from this. Personally public rudeness for me is more apparent because there are more people in the world trying to get shit done. I was not born in the 50's and I was raised this way. Our kids weren't born in the 50's and they were raised this way. I just always chalked it up to a population problem and not it being less prevelent because I run into way more polite people than I do rude people.

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Again, your opinion & I respect that. I'm not aware I truly placed manners & common courtesy ONLY in the "good old days" at all. I simply have found that people today aren't as aware or concerned with them....that's been my experience. From the snotty nosed child who bolts past you & runs into you not saying excuse me....to the woman OR man who cuts right in front of you to grab a box of faux mac & cheese & seems completely oblivious to the space that you inhabit.....THAT is what I'm talking about......I was raised to say please & thank you, excuse me, pardon me etc...I was born in the 50's & my friends from then were also taught likewise....I KNOW there are parents & teachers who teach it today also....it just seems to ME it is less prevelant.....that's all.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Oh, the good old 1950's! How about this article which is typical of women's magazines of the time?

Sounds super doesn't it?

Signed,

Anya
(The anti-June Cleaver)


Housekeeping Monthly - May 13, 1955:

*Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have be thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially his favourite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.

*Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you’ll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary men.

*Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.

*Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives. Run a dustcloth over the tables.

*Over the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.

*Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Encourage the children to be quiet.

*Be happy to see him.

*Greet him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him.

*Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.

*Make the evening his. Never complain if he comes home late or goes out to dinner or other places of entertainment without you.
Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure and his very real need to be at home and relax.

*Your goal: To try and make sure your home is a place of peace, order, and tranquility where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit.

*Don’t greet him with complaints and problems.

*Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or have him lie down in the bedroom.

*Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.

*Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.

^Don’t ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.



*A good wife always knows her place.

When

I read this it instantly ticked me off. But actually it is such
a farse that it's hilarious. Thanks for sharing Anya. It is too funny to even criticize. I can not even take it seriously enough to even care it is too freakin funny.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Oh, the good old 1950's! How about this article which is typical of women's magazines of the time?

Sounds super doesn't it?

Signed,

Anya
(The anti-June Cleaver)


Housekeeping Monthly - May 13, 1955:

*Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have be thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially his favourite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.

*Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you’ll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary men.

*Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.

*Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives. Run a dustcloth over the tables.

*Over the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.

*Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Encourage the children to be quiet.

*Be happy to see him.

*Greet him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him.

*Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.

*Make the evening his. Never complain if he comes home late or goes out to dinner or other places of entertainment without you.
Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure and his very real need to be at home and relax.

*Your goal: To try and make sure your home is a place of peace, order, and tranquility where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit.

*Don’t greet him with complaints and problems.

*Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or have him lie down in the bedroom.

*Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.

*Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.

^Don’t ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.

*A good wife always knows her place.

What no back rub ???

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by JAGG

When

I read this it instantly ticked me off. But actually it is such
a farse that it's hilarious. Thanks for sharing Anya. It is too funny to even criticize. I can not even take it seriously enough to even care it is too freakin funny.

Unfortunately it isn't a farce.

My favorite cookbook is a Betty Crocker, published in the 1940s. A cookbook...and it actually contains a page of this type of "advice." This is the messaging about the expectations for women...and not that long ago.

[thedivahrrrself]

Ummmm, who is June Cleaver?

[princessbelle]

Many of us have seen the era of "Barney Fife making ice cream on Andy's porch" life romanticized until it hits a sore spot.

Unfortunately the fact of the matter of the 1950s is...

Unless you were a white male of means you were not important.

Women, POC, minorities, children (who were suppose to be seen and not heard) were not important, relevant or worthy of a real life. (real to the degree, they in their own right had their own needs and desires)

And remember this especially....gay people? Let alone FTMs? Forget it. Wasn't happening.

Personally, *i* will take the risk of a modern world of internet and busy lives versus a life of oppression, bigotry and male white supremacy.

Any day of the week.